Bristle nose not eating not pooping looks full help

[Staceyh527]

looking for some more ideas from anyone with bristlenose experience. Ok had to medicate this tank on 3/23 for one fish with possible Ich so did ich x for a week then had to do a week of maracyn for another fish that had a spot of fungus in the middle of the maracyn the pleco stopped eating. I have had a bit of ammonia between 0 an 0.25 bad I know for fishes so I did a little gravel vac and water change to get it down could be from the 2 weeks of meds hurt my beneficial bacteria so dealing with that. Here’s the thing he isn’t eating even his favorite zucchini he will not touch anything I put in but he is on the glass and under log and hanging out like usual now but his belly doesn’t look right to me. Any help will be appreciated. I have been told to do another round  of maracyn possibly bacteria infection  and with all that’s happened may be but I feel the tank needs to recoup a bit. I don’t want to lose him at the same time I’m just so confused at this point he acts ok now but looks swollen and wont eat. When he does eat it’s repashy cucumbers, zucchini, algae wafers, brine  and I’m sure he eats what little food goes in for the fish that stay up top. Hopefully I can get somebody that’s got some experience with bristle nose plecos . I’ve got two boys ones in my 75 and this one is in a 60 breeder. I appreciate any advice. 

[Guppysnail]

He looks nice and plump. I would do nothing but monitor for a week. I’m sure the meds make them feel yucky the way they make humans feel yucky. 

[lefty o]

there was one on the forum here a while back really bloated, like twice as big as yours. salt was the cure.

[Staceyh527]

With 2 weeks of no eating and looking as full as he does I was concerned it could possibly be dropsy. That’s a planted tank if he does get bigger how do I help him with salt? I do have a 10 gal tank I just hate to move him not trying to make matters worse. 

[tolstoy21]

If this fish s truly constipated, epsom salt and a little bit if smushed peas can help relieve it.

https://be.chewy.com/aquarium-fish-constipation/

Epsom salt can also be attempted as a possible cure for dropsy --

 

Edited April 23 by tolstoy21

[Staceyh527]

He will not eat anything Ive tried peas soilent green repashy zucchini all his favorites he will not touch them. He hasn’t eaten in 2 weeks I can’t see where he would be constipated his belly looks empty to me compared to when he was eating but yet he looks full I dont understand it. 

[Odd Duck]

Epsom salt soaks can be very helpful for constipated fish.

You might even consider vibrational therapy as that has been known to help fish and other species with constipation. A waterproof, ahem, . . . personal massager, suspended in the water seems to be enough. Some fish even seem to be attracted to them.  Stand by and be ready to remove it with any sign of distress.  Leave in place only 10 minutes the first time and I wouldn’t go over 30 minutes. But you could do this every 8 to 12 hours if you see some improvement but not full resolution in one to two treatments. 

[Staceyh527]

Ok tried the epsom salt low dose for whole tank Tuesday BN went into hiding until I did a water change yesterday and he came out today I’m doing another water change to remove more of the salt. He doesn’t look better he looks more bloated still not eating 3 weeks now. Maybe I should have left things be 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️ I’m going to give him this week with nothing in the tank meds wise and see what the weekend holds. Do you think that’s a good idea? I’m so over all this mess I love this little guy and ever since the maracyn treatment behind the Ich-x he hasn’t been right 😕 you see the week ago pics here’s today

 

[Sacah]

Hey, in that more recent under belly photo, are parts of his stomach sticking out more, or is it a generally round tummy?

Does he appear to be moving around trying to scratch his belly on things?

[Staceyh527]

I saw the same thing  but in person it doesn’t look as pronounced ever since I took most of the salt that I could get out  with water changes. I did one yesterday and one the day before pretty sizable he has been out and going around the tank. I have not noticed him rubbing his self on anything, he just pretty much has been out on the glass underneath the sponge filter as you seen and today he spending his time on top of the rocks with the Hillstream loaches. He still will not eat though. I have so many plants it’s hard for me to keep up with what he’s doing when he’s not on the glass or under the sponge filter.

[Sacah]

I don't have a lot of experience with plecos, but from what I've read, they say it could take a week or two in a light epsom salt environment for stomach bloating from constipation to go down entirely and they be back to normal.

There is also the chance of it being bacterial infection or internal parasites, considering it's so close to the other fish having problems. The fact he doesn't seem lethargic makes me unsure about bacteria or parasites.

Are you able to move him to a quarintine tank (even just a storage tub with a basic filter and regular water changes) to better control his water and keep an eye on him?

As the video above mentiones, do 1/8 teaspoon of Epsom salt for every 5 gallons and monitor for a week, if he doesn't move much and when he does it appears to be to scratch, it could be parasites. 

If his eyes get cloudy, or bulging, or red streaks through his skin, it could be bacterial.

[Staceyh527]

He finally came out tonight and I got a pic of his belly. I did the eighth of a teaspoon per 5 gallons in the 60 gallon as soon as I put it in, he hid and did not move at all for two days  as soon as I removed half of the water the next day and put fresh water in. He came out a little bit and sat in one area on the bottom under a plant.  The next day late i did another w/c and ever since he’s out and about going from glass to rock to under filter  fanning his finns again wiggling his tail like he’s happy, but he has not eaten in three weeks so I find it really hard to believe he’s constipated and  I do have a quarantine,it’s holding  Yoyo loaches. I’m trying not to move him because I do not want to stress him out anymore than the medication and salt has already the two fish that are the reason I had to medicate the tank have since been moved to another smaller tank. This is the pic from tonight looks a little better than yesterday. I do appreciate the help. This is so confusing to me. 

[Sacah]

It's odd, that kind of behaviour is what I'd expect from other salts, like aquarium salt, not epsom salt, but some creatures just react differently.

Sounds like he's moving around and grazing now, so maybe continue keeping an eye on him.

[Staceyh527]

Sunday Monday and today

[Odd Duck]

On 4/27/2024 at 6:33 PM, Staceyh527 said:

Ok tried the epsom salt low dose for whole tank Tuesday BN went into hiding until I did a water change yesterday and he came out today I’m doing another water change to remove more of the salt. He doesn’t look better he looks more bloated still not eating 3 weeks now. Maybe I should have left things be 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️ I’m going to give him this week with nothing in the tank meds wise and see what the weekend holds. Do you think that’s a good idea? I’m so over all this mess I love this little guy and ever since the maracyn treatment behind the Ich-x he hasn’t been right 😕 you see the week ago pics here’s today

 

Epsom salt soak is very different than aquarium salt.  What dose did you use?

The Epsom salt soak dose is 1 tablespoon per gallon, soak for 10-30 minutes, being ready to immediately remove the fish out of the soak back into fresh water if any sign of distress.  It most definitely should not be used in the entire tank at the soak dose.  Epsom salt is Magnesium Sulfate (MgSO4), not aquarium salt, which is sodium chloride (NaCl).

A fairly typical fertilizer dose of MgSO4 is 1/4 teaspoon per 10 gallons.  That’s 1/120 of the soak dose.  Please do another large water change as soon as possible if you added 1 tablespoon of Epsom salt per gallon!

 

Edit to add that I read further and found the dose you used which is the same as the fertilizer dose (1/8 tsp per 5 gallons = 1/4 tsp per 10 gallons).  I would not expect this dose to be effective for what you’re trying to do.  The entire point of Epsom salt is so the fish takes in enough to trigger it to empty its GI tract.  If you haven’t seen poop come out then you haven’t accomplished your goal.  Appropriate dosing is key, but you will need to catch the affected fish and ideally, move him to a hospital tank for appropriate monitoring, and to be able to do a soak or 2.  Adding the same dose of MgSO4 as is already contained in most fertilizers isn’t going to do anything for constipation if that’s actually what’s happening in your pleco.

Edited Tuesday at 10:03 PM by Odd Duck

[Staceyh527]

This whole thing is very bizarre and according to the video that dose is to not have to move them and the dose can stay in longer at no harm but will work as a laxative as well. He has not eaten unless it’s biofilm that doesn't show in his stomach for 3 weeks so how could he be constipated? Everything I put in he has nothing to do with. He has been out on the glass and around the tank since all meds and salt are out. I do not want to move him and stress him unless I know what is wrong and that the treatment is definitely what he needs but no one seems to know. I put a small piece of zucchini in today that was his favorite but he hasn’t bothered with it either as of yet just hanging near it watching the others eat.  I’m just watching him this week and hopefully I’ll come across someone that has had this happen before and an answer. I’m lost. This is  a pic just now. I appreciate all you guys are trying to do for me. 

[Odd Duck]

I didn’t watch the video but I would not expect fertilizer dose to clear constipation or we would see all our fish suddenly defecate as soon as the fertilizer got mixed into the water.  Certainly that amount can stay in the water long term since that’s a pretty standard dry fertilizer dose.

I can tell you that it can be extremely difficult to tell what’s wrong internally in any animal, so without doing some testing on the fish - X-rays, even ultrasound to get an idea if there is organ enlargement or GI enlargement and distention.  Without being able to palpate your fish and run tests, it is impossible to make a diagnosis on internal issues.  Without a diagnosis we can only take our best guesses and recommend treatment of the things that we CAN treat because organ enlargement is rarely easily treatable in any species (fish, mammal, bird, human).

I absolutely get that it’s frustrating because it’s frustrating on our end to not be able to help more. I do know first hand how frustrating problems can be when it’s your own fish.  We are doing the best with what we can do but on your end, doing a proper Epsom salt soak is recommended since just adding fertilizer dose is not likely to move anything through.

I wish I could help more but treating what we CAN treat with an appropriate dose is the starting place. I know you’re concerned about stress but if the pleco is constipated, that’s more stress than catching and treating.

Do you have a hospital tank he can go in to make catching easier?  He might only need a couple soaks. If a couple soaks doesn’t get his gut moving again there’s a chance we might not be able to fix him. A hospital tank would clearly show if he’s pooped, too, so you wouldn’t have any doubt if the soak worked. If he poops a couple times with no increase in his appetite and no decrease in the belly then it’s unlikely this is simple constipation.  Which makes it unlikely we can help long distance.

You might need to find a veterinarian near you that is comfortable seeing fish but right off I can tell you that’s going to be expensive.  X-rays would be almost $370.00 at my clinic but that includes a consult with a radiologist. We can’t get fast consults on exotics because it takes extra training and practice to read X-rays on exotics, especially fish. only 10% of vets are exotics and fewer still will see fish. It’s a very small percentage that could read radiographs on a pleco. It would push my comfort zone to read rads on a pleco but with ultrasound paired with rads I’m reasonably confident I could give you a better idea of what’s wrong and if it’s treatable or not. But you would be looking at exam fee, rads, ultrasound and then you’re talking about $700.00.

So, at least try the proper MgSO4 / Epsom salt dose of 1 tablespoon per gallon in a separate container (specimen container works well and you’ll have leftover solution to use another time if needed) because that’s pretty much the only chance we’ve got of helping short of a very expensive trip to the vet that you might have to drive a couple or more hours to get to unless you’re close to a vet college.  🤷🏻‍♀️ 

[Staceyh527]

Oh yeah not spending that kind of money that’s insane. I’ll do the dose of 1tbsp per gallon for 5 min watching him closely and see what it does. I do have a quarantine but it’s holding 2 yoyos that are meant for this tank. I have not moved them because of all this. I don’t know that he would be happy being in with them in that small tank. Is it possible to do this and just put him back in his tank or should I chance it? Here’s him today just for comparison 

[Staceyh527]

I’m doing one now but he has to go back into the main tank how often do I do this?

[Staceyh527]

Did the salt bath for10 minutes  at 3:30 at 5:00 he looked like this to me he looks worse! What are your thoughts? I don’t think he likes salt very much seems to not pull fluid off but that’s my opinion. 

Edited Thursday at 12:49 AM by Staceyh527

[Odd Duck]

Yes, you can put him back in the main tank, but it’s harder to monitor if they’ve pooped if they go back in the main tank.  It’s also usually harder to catch them out of your main tank.  The Epsom salt doesn’t pull fluid off, it is a laxative and triggers the GI tract to move.  Did he show any distress during the soak?  He can stay in longer (up to 30 minutes) if he isn’t showing distress - more rapid breathing, etc.  I would expect a bit of stress from catching and moving, but they usually settle in a few minutes.  Then watch close for rapid breathing, flashing, etc.  One of the reasons I’m still thinking he could be constipated is that bulging vent.  It could bulge for other reasons, but I’m still hoping for constipation but that can be treated.

[Staceyh527]

I contacted the coop today they suggested the level 2 aquarium salt treatment for 5 days if no change let him sit another 5 days they think it’s dropsy where he didn’t handle the meds well. The bath I did didn’t help he just sat there on the glass and still will not eat. I’m hoping this does the trick he seems to be doing ok so far. Thank you for all your help