Do I need to clean my tank?

[NikkiRae]

Water Parameters

Temp: 78 FH

PH:8

Hardness:75 GH

Alkalinity: 300

Nitrite: 0

Nitrate:10

Ammonia:0

This sounds like a weird question. I vacuum my gravel once a week and replace 15-20% of the water. Fish hate water changes. Heavily planted. Fish always hate water changes and there is no visible debris or smell. The water is crystal clear. Top layer of substrate is gravel and the bottom is pool sand. Nitrate levels of 10 are very safe. Is there any reason to clean it? I know there is always waste in the gravel that I can't see without stirring it up, but do I really need to clean it? Is 1 time a week unnecessary? Basically, I am currently trying to find an excuse to get out of my Sunday chore LOL. 

[clownbaby]

There would be no harm if you skipped a gravel vac / partial water change, but I would recommend it. Every now and again I will randomly do a 5 percent water change (which is barely 2 gallons), and I do notice my fish being super active afterwards. A water change is genuinely like a breath of fresh air; I cannot imagine how refreshing that is. 

I follow an A-C and B-D week water change schedule personally, where on A and C weeks I change 10 percent of the water and on B-D weeks I change 20 percent. Plus my random 5 percent water changes. I use this water to water my 50+ houseplants, so I kinda have to do water changes LOL or else my plants will die 😂. If you skip a week, it'll probably be safe, but I know your fish will enjoy a water change. My fish were scared at first, so instead of using a siphon to use water changes I use a cup and gently pour the water in... yes it takes half an hour longer, but if it makes my fishies happy, I'm happy.

TLDR; you'd be fine if you skipped it, but you'd be fine skipping a daily vitamin too; that doesn't mean you necessarily should skip a daily vitamin too... it would be healthier to do your Sunday chore, unfortunately. 

A cool thing, however, this is the internet and I will never know if you ignore me, listen to me, or anything else; regardless, I wish you luck if you do your water change! 😁😊 

[NikkiRae]

On 4/21/2024 at 2:42 PM, clownbaby said:

There would be no harm if you skipped a gravel vac / partial water change, but I would recommend it. Every now and again I will randomly do a 5 percent water change (which is barely 2 gallons), and I do notice my fish being super active afterwards. A water change is genuinely like a breath of fresh air; I cannot imagine how refreshing that is. 

I follow an A-C and B-D week water change schedule personally, where on A and C weeks I change 10 percent of the water and on B-D weeks I change 20 percent. Plus my random 5 percent water changes. I use this water to water my 50+ houseplants, so I kinda have to do water changes LOL or else my plants will die 😂. If you skip a week, it'll probably be safe, but I know your fish will enjoy a water change. My fish were scared at first, so instead of using a siphon to use water changes I use a cup and gently pour the water in... yes it takes half an hour longer, but if it makes my fishies happy, I'm happy.

TLDR; you'd be fine if you skipped it, but you'd be fine skipping a daily vitamin too; that doesn't mean you necessarily should skip a daily vitamin too... it would be healthier to do your Sunday chore, unfortunately. 

A cool thing, however, this is the internet and I will never know if you ignore me, listen to me, or anything else; regardless, I wish you luck if you do your water change! 😁😊 

That is a cool thing about the internet. I probably won't skip it. I just don't WANNNNA LOL.

[lefty o]

water changes are really needed based on water quality and fish health. IMO the once a week water change is usually much more than needed.

[AllFishNoBrakes]

I focus on consistency, and enjoy doing my water changes. It’s a few hours on my day off where I get to throw on headphones and take care of my tanks. 
 

Now, when life gets hectic, I’m on vacation, etc then I have no issues whatsoever skipping a week. I just don’t make it a trend. I also have very soft water, so my tanks can really use that water change to replenish the trace amount of minerals in my water. 
 

If your tank is heavily planted, you probably don’t need to gravel vac every week. You’re just taking out natural plant food and making things harder on yourself. Just take water out and back in and call it a day. 

Edited April 21 by AllFishNoBrakes

[jwcarlson]

I'd be more concerned about why you think your fish "hate water changes".  

[Whitecloud09]

Water changes are the most important thing you could do for your fish, but I have the same Q as @jwcarlson, I am concerned about that as well. What do you mean by “hate it”? Are they super stressed @NikkiRae?

[Sacah]

What is the size of your tank, and what fish do you have in there?

[Whitecloud09]

On 4/21/2024 at 8:06 PM, Sacah said:

What is the size of your tank, and what fish do you have in there?

Yeah, the number of fish can be a big thing to, like if it’s overstocked then ammonia might be present and also another Q, how much do you feed your fish @NikkiRae?

[NikkiRae]

They don’t “hate it”. Fish just don’t like you all up in their business. They are like old men and resist change. They don’t get super stressed or anything you can just tell they don’t like it. Writing this out I realize that I am actually a weirdo because I can tell that my fish aren’t “stressed”. But stressed in a way like if a house keeper cleaned your house and decided to put the plates in a different cup board. All water changes are done. I have a 55 gallon with one pearl gourami, two honey gouramis, five glow light tetras, two black phantom tetras, two golden barbs,  two red barbs, and one very lonely, ember tetra. I know about shoals and some of the numbers aren’t ideal. And the ember was an accident. Somehow wound up in the bag so I kept him and figured I’d see what happens . In my 20 gallon I have six black phantom tetras. I have my beta in a 10 gallon. I have a few mollies in a 20 gallon. And I have two glow lights and an oto in a 15. 

Whoops forgot about the 4 danios in the 55

[Tony s]

On 4/21/2024 at 9:53 PM, NikkiRae said:

Writing this out I realize that I am actually a weirdo because I can tell that my fish aren’t “stressed”.

Absolutely not, you’re a very attentive fish keeper, which is great. John Hudson, kgtropicals, says his Oscars will go to the bottom of the tank and lay down sideways after water changes. Just pouting. He also tells about spawning African cichlids after water changes because it’s kind of like a rain storm. New, fresh, slightly cooler water. As is done in nature. Most times I’ve heard this helps spawning tremendously. Especially Corys. 

[AtomicSunfish]

Depending on what you’re keeping, water changes don’t have to be 10% weekly. For years I’ve done 60% monthly water changes for livebearers, cichlids, sunfishes, anabantoids, darters, catfishes, and African dwarf frogs (and snails). The advantage is that you disturb the fish less often. However, it can be stressful if the water is too cold, or the pH is too different.

Denitrifying bacteria reduce nitrate to atmospheric nitrogen in nature, but that’s hard to replicate in aquaria. Plants can take up some nitrate to make their proteins and nucleic acids. But sooner or later, we do have to perform a water change to dilute that nitrate. What’s more, there are nutrients and minerals that get used up, which must be replaced by adding new water (that’s why diatoms can bloom with frequent water changes: more silica for their frustule, or shell). Even a heavily planted tank still needs a water change every six months or so.

A good aquarium is a wonderful microcosm, but it is not a complete, self-contained ecosystem. You can be a bit lazy, but eventually you will have to do a water change. If weekly is too onerous, you can do it less often. But I wouldn’t do it less often than monthly.

Edited April 22 by AtomicSunfish

[Tony s]

One of the key indicators of when it’s absolutely time to refresh your tank. If you keep and eye on your ph an kh and know where they usually are. When they both start to drop, you’re entering into what’s called old tank syndrome.  Now, this excludes soft water tanks which have low ph and almost no kh in normal circumstances. But , I doubt you’ll ever get close to that, as I believe you’re mostly kidding about putting off water changes for extended periods anyway. But an every other week schedule is very doable, if your nitrates haven’t climbed beyond 20 ppm. 

Edited April 22 by Tony s

[Lennie]

On 4/21/2024 at 10:09 PM, NikkiRae said:

Water Parameters

Temp: 78 FH

PH:8

Hardness:75 GH

Alkalinity: 300

Nitrite: 0

Nitrate:10

Ammonia:0

This sounds like a weird question. I vacuum my gravel once a week and replace 15-20% of the water. Fish hate water changes. Heavily planted. Fish always hate water changes and there is no visible debris or smell. The water is crystal clear. Top layer of substrate is gravel and the bottom is pool sand. Nitrate levels of 10 are very safe. Is there any reason to clean it? I know there is always waste in the gravel that I can't see without stirring it up, but do I really need to clean it? Is 1 time a week unnecessary? Basically, I am currently trying to find an excuse to get out of my Sunday chore LOL. 

Fish LOVE water changes if done correctly. Water changes have a huge positive effect on fish in my experience. Water in nature does not sit in a X gallon fish tank all the time. What's worse is keeping them in the same water all the time just because nitrification bacteria and plants help with some parameters.

 

They probably just hate potentially being stressed in your scenario, not the actual water change. Stress being new water with abnormal parameters or temperature, stress of vacuum cleaning movement around, etc. You don't have to do vacuum clean once a week to be fair. That being said, I have never witnessed my fish acting stressed while vacuum cleaning. Is there anything you might be doing wrong or in a bit too rough? I dont know

 

 

[Flumpweesel]

I do water changes when I have time the inclination and the garden would like a dirty fish water boost. I have heavily planted tanks and they can go months without a change in the measurable parameters . 

I personally think its is better to be guided by the changes in the water than to stick to routine as you will help you build in a better crisis buffer.  I know that if something happened and I couldn't get to my tanks they would cope well over 6 months with moderate feeding ( easier to find a feeder than a cleaner) that is very unlikely to ever be the case but when my mains water had boil notice one summer it saved a lot of worry  and money. 

It is your tank do what you want but I do say find your stress points they are useful when life gets in the way. you may also find that the plants do a bit better if they get a bit more Nitrate

[NikkiRae]

On 4/22/2024 at 3:59 AM, Lennie said:

Fish LOVE water changes if done correctly. Water changes have a huge positive effect on fish in my experience. Water in nature does not sit in a X gallon fish tank all the time. What's worse is keeping them in the same water all the time just because nitrification bacteria and plants help with some parameters.

 

They probably just hate potentially being stressed in your scenario, not the actual water change. Stress being new water with abnormal parameters or temperature, stress of vacuum cleaning movement around, etc. You don't have to do vacuum clean once a week to be fair. That being said, I have never witnessed my fish acting stressed while vacuum cleaning. Is there anything you might be doing wrong or in a bit too rough? I dont know

 

 

Don't worry. The fish are fine with water changes. They just hide in the corner because there is a giant tube sucking water out of their tank, and their stuff gets moved around. My pearl gourami will hide longer than the other fish afterward but she is just like that. When I put water back in, the fish play under the new water stream. My true question was if it is necessary. They live in an aquarium with excellent water quality and I do weekly water changes. I was just avoiding it and while looking at the crystal clear water, I wondered if it was really needed if their tank looked so clean. 

[Tony s]

On 4/22/2024 at 7:35 AM, NikkiRae said:

My true question was if it is necessary. They live in an aquarium with excellent water quality and I do weekly water changes

If your water quality is good, feel free to stretch it out as long as you want. Especially because life gets in the way. As long as you can keep the nitrates around 20 to 30, you’re very good.

[NikkiRae]

On 4/22/2024 at 1:08 AM, Tony s said:

One of the key indicators of when it’s absolutely time to refresh your tank. If you keep and eye on your ph an kh and know where they usually are. When they both start to drop, you’re entering into what’s called old tank syndrome.  Now, this excludes soft water tanks which have low ph and almost no kh in normal circumstances. But , I doubt you’ll ever get close to that, as I believe you’re mostly kidding about putting off water changes for extended periods anyway. But an every other week schedule is very doable, if your nitrates haven’t climbed beyond 20 ppm. 

My ph is always on the high end ranging between 7.5 and 8. I have never seen a crash and when I first started keeping fish and had absolutely no idea what I was doing, I would use PH down to try to get it to match the care sheets of my fish. I now know how silly that was. I am thinking since I have never seen a drop in these numbers when I do my weekly testing, that I have never had a bad water situation. As far as hardness, I live on the "iron range" so there is extremely hard water so I have a softener that I have had to adjust because it made the water was ridiculously soft. Thank you for the info!

[NikkiRae]

On 4/21/2024 at 11:17 PM, AtomicSunfish said:

Depending on what you’re keeping, water changes don’t have to be 10% weekly. For years I’ve done 60% monthly water changes for livebearers, cichlids, sunfishes, anabantoids, darters, catfishes, and African dwarf frogs (and snails). The advantage is that you disturb the fish less often. However, it can be stressful if the water is too cold, or the pH is too different.

Denitrifying bacteria reduce nitrate to atmospheric nitrogen in nature, but that’s hard to replicate in aquaria. Plants can take up some nitrate to make their proteins and nucleic acids. But sooner or later, we do have to perform a water change to dilute that nitrate. What’s more, there are nutrients and minerals that get used up, which must be replaced by adding new water (that’s why diatoms can bloom with frequent water changes: more silica for their frustule, or shell). Even a heavily planted tank still needs a water change every six months or so.

A good aquarium is a wonderful microcosm, but it is not a complete, self-contained ecosystem. You can be a bit lazy, but eventually you will have to do a water change. If weekly is too onerous, you can do it less often. But I wouldn’t do it less often than monthly.

 

From the majority of comments I have seen here, with the well established eco system in my 55g, I could go longer without changing the water. Thank you for the info. Takes a lot of stress off of my shoulders. 

As for my live bearer tank, it has to be cleaned once a week. That's because it is on the smaller end and not planted. I accidentally typed 20 gallons previously but they are in a 10 G. I only have 5 fish in there so it isn't inhumane, but not ideal for fish that poop constantly.

 

[Tony s]

On 4/22/2024 at 7:42 AM, NikkiRae said:

As far as hardness, I live on the "iron range" so there is extremely hard water

You have perfectly normal water for the majority of the US. The soft water is only found on the east coast, Pacific Northwest, and gulf coast. It only covers about 15% of the country. So, your water quality was probably always good. That’s why it’s more important to know what the parameters of the fish breeder than the suggested parameters ranges of the wild fish. Unless you want the wild fish. Matching your parameters is best, that’s why finding a good local fish store is important.

 

[Whitecloud09]

On 4/21/2024 at 9:53 PM, NikkiRae said:

They don’t “hate it”. Fish just don’t like you all up in their business. They are like old men and resist change. They don’t get super stressed or anything you can just tell they don’t like it. Writing this out I realize that I am actually a weirdo because I can tell that my fish aren’t “stressed”. But stressed in a way like if a house keeper cleaned your house and decided to put the plates in a different cup board. All water changes are done. I have a 55 gallon with one pearl gourami, two honey gouramis, five glow light tetras, two black phantom tetras, two golden barbs,  two red barbs, and one very lonely, ember tetra. I know about shoals and some of the numbers aren’t ideal. And the ember was an accident. Somehow wound up in the bag so I kept him and figured I’d see what happens . In my 20 gallon I have six black phantom tetras. I have my beta in a 10 gallon. I have a few mollies in a 20 gallon. And I have two glow lights and an oto in a 15. 

Whoops forgot about the 4 danios in the 55

Crazy awesome tanks @NikkiRae! Good job!!!!!  The 55 is looking sweet! Yeah I would do if the water is super clear like a 20-30% every 2 weeks maybe instead of one. I agree with everyone here on what they say too.

[jwcarlson]

I'm sure every fish is different, but none of mine act scared/stressed/etc during or after a water change... even in the tanks that I change water in infrequently.  My discus are left on the bottom of the tank completely on their side with fins out of the water and they'll start eating as soon as there's enough water that they're upright.  Unless I forget water conditioner.

The rams will attack my hands and the tube if they have recently had fry.  But everything else just carries on.  And I usually don't do water changes much less than 75%.  In tanks with fry and big mats of hornwort, there's almost no swimming space left.  And I might leave them at that drained state for 20-30 minutes.  I drain all the tanks I'm changing water in until I'm ready to refill.  Most fish seem happy for water changes, honestly.  But I always use aged water at the exact same temperature as the tank (unless I'm trying to trigger a spawn or something).  

[Tanked]

 

Your tanks seem to be exceptionally clean. One answer would be: if it ain't broke, don't try to fix it; your aquarium looks great.  The other answer would be:  Skip the gravel vac. for a week or two and see what changes.  

Most of my fish seem to enjoy maintenance day.  Some get in the way, some strike at the snail shells and other detritus in the tube, and some just keep their distance.  There is always a reward afterword, so much like cats, they just tolerate the intrusion.

[Lennie]

On 4/22/2024 at 2:35 PM, NikkiRae said:

Don't worry. The fish are fine with water changes. They just hide in the corner because there is a giant tube sucking water out of their tank, and their stuff gets moved around. My pearl gourami will hide longer than the other fish afterward but she is just like that. When I put water back in, the fish play under the new water stream. My true question was if it is necessary. They live in an aquarium with excellent water quality and I do weekly water changes. I was just avoiding it and while looking at the crystal clear water, I wondered if it was really needed if their tank looked so clean. 

I just said it because you said fish hate water change in your post. I wanted to explain it because, water changes can sometimes be one of the best treatments for the sick fish to heal. In fact, my aquaculture engineer friend who works with fish and is also a hobbyist told me he has seen so many benefits of water changes during sick fish treatments

 

What you call excellent water is quite arguable. We barely test for anything in the water and know about it in general with our home level aquarist test kits. We basically don’t even know why we read X tds unless we remineralize a 0tds RODI water and have estimations on what we dose. You say your water is excellent based on nitrate readings and a few others? Because there is sooo many stuff that we cannot test for. In fact, many even say aquarium grade test kit results are arguable overall.  And as hobbyists, I don’t think we understand this concept in detail. For years the excellent water to be wanted for reef tanks was 0 phosphate 0 nitrate and today they realize it is not good at alL. And Idk if you ever checked a detailed advanced reef setups. These guys have crazy setups for stable parameters that they reach from 0 tds RODI water and keep everything stable all the time, testing and dosing many stuff

 

Edited April 22 by Lennie

[madmark285]

On 4/21/2024 at 3:09 PM, NikkiRae said:

Basically, I am currently trying to find an excuse to get out of my Sunday chore LOL

Pure speculation so don't be offended or take this too seriously but this may be a warning sign of things to come. Long ago when I had young kids and life was so hectic, I neglected a tank which I was doing the 5 gallon bucket thing for water changes. I vowed I would never do that again when the tank crashed. 

Before i even bought my 75 gallon tank, I tap into a water line and I now have a large Brute garbage can for water changes. My 40 and 75 gallon tanks will have sumps which are easy to maintain. I connected my Tidal HOB  to an undergravel filter, the bio-filter needs little maintenance. To drain the water out the window, I may make one of these self-starting siphon tubes , just put it in a tank and it will drain out X amount of water. I hate starting a siphon. 

So it only takes me ~15 minutes for a quick water change. 

For your 120 gallon paludarium, connecting the sump which came with the tank will make maintenance easier.