50 years of fish keeping on and off and this never happened

[ktk4beees]

I have been keeping fish on and off all my life and seriously for 8 years now. I have never had a tank crash. I have come close once in a while but never ever killed fish in the process. That leads to last night and this morning.

When I went to bed, I fed the fish in the bedroom like I have for 8 years now with the same food. The only difference is that the ammonia was a bit high so I put 2 cupfuls of Fritz complete in the tank through the filter. When I woke up this morning, it was a disaster! All the fish and shrimp in the tank were dead with the exception of 3 Cory Cats which quickly found a new home in one of my other numerous tank where the fish are alive. 

I have no clue as to why this tank crashed like this and killed all my friends. I have not cried yet because I have been working on the tank as much as my disability will let me. I guess I am writing this as a means of catharsis.  I hope that none of you ever have to go through what I did this morning.

[TOtrees]

Wow, sorry to hear. We're happy to be your outlet/vent. You'll get through it, and recover. Don't hurt yourself. 

[lefty o]

it happens, it sucks, and its like a gut punch. almost 30 years straight of keeping fish, and it finally happened to me about 4 years ago. it hurt bad, but i got over it, and got the tank healthy again.

[Galabar]

I'm curious, why did you test for ammonia and how often do you do that?

 

[ktk4beees]

I have been having black hair algae issues in that tank and only that tank. I have been fighting it by removing the effected plants, treating them and placing them in my plant "hospital" tank. The Hospital tank always has patients that are ready to back in a tank so those go in the effected tank as replacements.

So, Because of the algae issue I have been trying to figure out why only that tank when all my tanks have the same water.  Hence the testing.

 

[Tony s]

On 3/12/2024 at 3:20 PM, lefty o said:

it hurt bad, but i got over it, and got the tank healthy again.

Good for you. But at that point, what do you do, really. Haven’t had that with aquariums yet. But have had million dollar farm buildings burn down and last year tornadoes took out 2. But you either give up or have to pick up and try again. 
 

@ktk4beees so sorry for your loss. It’s what people say for funerals, but it really does work in this situation. It’s maybe not as traumatic, but it’s still your animals and your history. It’ll get better, but may take a bit..😪😭

[ktk4beees]

On 3/12/2024 at 4:00 PM, Tony s said:

Good for you. But at that point, what do you do, really. Haven’t had that with aquariums yet. But have had million dollar farm buildings burn down and last year tornadoes took out 2. But you either give up or have to pick up and try again. 
 

@ktk4beees so sorry for your loss. It’s what people say for funerals, but it really does work in this situation. It’s maybe not as traumatic, but it’s still your animals and your history. It’ll get better, but may take a bit..😪😭

Thank you and it does help. Before I was disabled, I had large animals and I can even imagine the pain you have gone through in you natural disasters. It take an amazingly strong person to rebuild somewhere where those things can happen again. Having had the variety of fish, cows, chickens, goats and horses, fish come out on top for me simply because they are fun to watch in their little glass boxes, they don't eat tons, and best of all, they don't make a sound.

[Tony s]

And they don’t take anywhere near the amount of work as large animals do. The fish work I use to relax after 12 hour days. We do pigs here. my daughter would love the goats and horses. I think she’s going to get bunnies for 4h. Never raised bunnies before.

but, anyway, I understand how traumatic this can be. Especially not knowing what the heck happened. I’m used to animal deaths, doing what I do. But it’s never easy, nor should it be. But it does get better. God bless.

[T. Payne]

Is it possible that the cupfuls of dechlorinator did it. One cup is a ton, 2 cups would even be enough to treat a huge pond.

[Guppysnail]

I’m so sorry for your loss.  Using prime to deal with ammonia affects dissolved oxygen levels. 
 

My guess would be you hit just the right amount of ammonia combined with the prime to lower it enough to adversely affect fish.  Coupled with this being done at night plants respire co2 in the the dark and consume oxygen. 
 

This explains how the cory survived. 

[ktk4beees]

Learning this way has been a very hard lesson and I hope that this lesson reaches some other Fish Parent that might have a difficult tank and try to fix it the very wrong way.

I have a fish buddy that is local to me. Since nothing much is local to me this is a good thing. She came over last night to see how I was doing and we sussed out that it was my mistake that killed the tank. Heavy Sigh. I'm down to seeing which Nerite Snails made it and I have 2 of them alive and well. The Corys all came out and said hello last night when I fed their tank and I was relieved to see it. Still it really hurts my heart to know that one simple mistake was what caused all that death and make me very sad.

[ktk4beees]

AS a PS. There is a YouTube Video out there by one of the "Fish Aficionados" that touts Prime as the cure all for Any problem tank and states that it is safe to use in high amounts. That Video should be removed as it was part and parcel what led me to do what I did. I am sure that the person that put that Video up is paid by the makers of Prime which is why it exists but it is bad information.

 

PSS I know that I am still responsible for doing what I did and I truly feel awful about it. I can see however knowing what I know now, through a very hard lesson, how much bad information is out there for people trying to learn the hobby.

[AllFishNoBrakes]

On 3/13/2024 at 9:35 AM, ktk4beees said:

states that it is safe to use in high amounts

I think it’s listed at safe up to 5x, at 1ml per 10 gallons. So, 5ml for a 10 gallon, 10ml for a 20 gallon, and so on. 
 

Not trying to be contrarian or an advocate for using dechlorinator as a cure all, just trying to make sure the correct information is out there, perhaps unlike the video you mentioned. 

Edited March 13 by AllFishNoBrakes

[ktk4beees]

I am here to tell you that it is not safe. Even at 3X the amount in a 29 gallon long it killed almost every fish in the tank. So while their "Directions" state that it is safe to use in high amounts to solve issues, I am proof that it is not at all safe.

[AllFishNoBrakes]

You said you put in 2 cupfuls. Is that as in a 1 cup measuring cup? Maybe you meant capfuls, as in the cap on the bottle which I’m pretty sure is 5ml

[ktk4beees]

When we researched what I actually did it was a total of 5 ml that went into the tank that night. I did again what I had done into a measuring beaker so we would know what happened.  We of course did not have the measurement of the ammonia at that time to prove the entire circumstance but had enough information to believe it was a perfect storm the have happen what happened. So that product should have a warning label on it rather than to say it is safe in every circumstance.

Most of us are not Biological Scientists, more like Biological Hacks. We all try our very best to care for our fish buddies but there is danger in the additives that are sold to the general public. Some, like this one are very complex in what they do in the water of our fish buddies. Add heavily planted tanks in the mix and you have all kinds of issues you need to watch out for. That is why a lot of us use remineralized RO water. In my case, I am on a privet well so I have different things I need to deal with because this is also a farming/ranching community and we also have a great deal of hot springs. So, I have had to up my game a bit in the study of water and the thing that make up water.

I made a bad mistake and now have to learn from it. That product will be used in very small amounts, during the day where I can observe the results and act accordingly if there becomes an issue so that I never do that again.

[Tony s]

On 3/13/2024 at 12:31 PM, AllFishNoBrakes said:

You said you put in 2 cupfuls. Is that as in a 1 cup measuring cup

I am going to guess cap full. 2 cups would be 2/3 of the big bottle. so, no...

[Trish]

On 3/13/2024 at 9:57 AM, ktk4beees said:

When we researched what I actually did it was a total of 5 ml that went into the tank that night. I did again what I had done into a measuring beaker so we would know what happened.  We of course did not have the measurement of the ammonia at that time to prove the entire circumstance but had enough information to believe it was a perfect storm the have happen what happened. So that product should have a warning label on it rather than to say it is safe in every circumstance.

Most of us are not Biological Scientists, more like Biological Hacks. We all try our very best to care for our fish buddies but there is danger in the additives that are sold to the general public. Some, like this one are very complex in what they do in the water of our fish buddies. Add heavily planted tanks in the mix and you have all kinds of issues you need to watch out for. That is why a lot of us use remineralized RO water. In my case, I am on a privet well so I have different things I need to deal with because this is also a farming/ranching community and we also have a great deal of hot springs. So, I have had to up my game a bit in the study of water and the thing that make up water.

I made a bad mistake and now have to learn from it. That product will be used in very small amounts, during the day where I can observe the results and act accordingly if there becomes an issue so that I never do that again.

So sorry for your loss, hope you will be up and running again soon.  You mean't the best.  Though my decades of keeping fish I've made mistakes too, some so simple, but through learning I've found my first defence is basic water changes for parameters that are off, instead of chemicals.   Perhaps this wasn't an easy time to do maintenance.  There's nothing like being up in the wee hours trying to fix a problem, ask me how I know!   Your water sounds intricate as well.   

Edited March 13 by Trish

[Tony s]

On 3/13/2024 at 12:57 PM, ktk4beees said:

I made a bad mistake and now have to learn from it.

Yeah, been there more times than I care to count. Usually on simple stupid things. I was fixing a water line in one of my hog buildings once. It was late and i forgot to turn it back on. I missed it the next day while checking. Next day I had pigs on the ground paddling from spinal pressure due to salt buildup in the brainstem. treated all of them with dexamethasone and water trickling into their mouths. most recovered. I lost probably 65 head. and all on me. so, yeah, i absolutely get it. In some ways it's way worse in your situation as those were your pets and companions. so yeah, my absolute condolences. give it time, it gets better

[Galabar]

I doubt that Prime or Fritz complete was the cause (especially not just two capfuls).  There is debate as to whether the chemical in those conditioners can do anything to ammonia.  It may be the case that they do nothing and can only neutralize chlorine.

It's most likely the case that the ammonia in your tank was the cause of your problem.  Figuring out what caused the ammonia spike is probably your best bet.

Edited March 13 by Galabar

[Tony s]

On 3/13/2024 at 3:29 PM, Galabar said:

It's most likely the case that the ammonia in your tank was the cause of your problem

I'm guessing lack of oxygen, as these chemical deplete oxygen anyway. and when the night comes, plants slip into dark respiration. which also depletes oxygen.

[ktk4beees]

On 3/13/2024 at 1:29 PM, Galabar said:

I doubt that Prime or Fritz complete was the cause (especially not just two capfuls).  There is debate as to whether the chemical in those conditioners can do anything to ammonia.  It may be the case that they do nothing and can only neutralize chlorine.

It's most likely the case that the ammonia in your tank was the cause of your problem.  Figuring out what caused the ammonia spike is probably your best bet.

I may have had a dead fish or snail. Hard to tell in the aftermath and with the heavy plants also hard to see at the time. So, live and learn and try to never do that again. Water change would have been a better option if I had been capable but at the time pain was a factor (with me not the fish) so I really just wanted the release of sleep. I paid a high price for that decision.

[mynameisnobody]

@ktk4beees  I hope you’re feeling better physically. Cool thing about this scenario is that we have another day to figure it out. Keeps it interesting. Also I don’t think it’s fair to you to negotiate your pain for water changes. Take care of yourself and definitely don’t be so hard on yourself. Somehow, metaphorically I think your fish understand and love you. 

[ktk4beees]

On 3/13/2024 at 4:51 PM, mynameisnobody said:

@ktk4beees  I hope you’re feeling better physically. Cool thing about this scenario is that we have another day to figure it out. Keeps it interesting. Also I don’t think it’s fair to you to negotiate your pain for water changes. Take care of yourself and definitely don’t be so hard on yourself. Somehow, metaphorically I think your fish understand and love you. 

Thank you, truly thank you.

I had not yet cried for them. I wanted to but couldn't. Your beautiful words gave me peace.

[Chad]

As others have said, I’m so sorry for your loss. You’ve come to the right place to share and grieve, we all feel your pain. This hobby is full of highs and lows and we’re all pulling for you. And as has been said already, don’t punish yourself or look inward too harshly. You did what I would have done, what any us would’ve done given your situation. We’re all simply trying our best at making our little slice of this place a bit more fun and enjoyable. I thank you for your candor and honesty in sharing this with us. It takes courage to do so, glad you’re here.