Hourly ammonia spikes???

[ClockworkCatfish]

I have a 15 gallon tank with 12 salt and pepper corydoras and 6 white cloud minnows, that's been up and running for 3 months, finished cycling 2 months ago. Yesterday I noticed my fish acting weird so I did a water test and it returned 8ppm ammonia, up from 0.25ppm 4 days ago, after which I did a 50% water change. I immediately did an 80% water change, got 0 ammonia readings. Also tested my tap water, which returned 0.25ppm ammonia. I tested the water this morning, 0.25ppm ammonia, did a 10% water change, 5 hours later I tested the water and it returned 4ppm!. What's going on?

Quick answers:

For the last 4 days I've been giving 1 catfish pellet and one small pinch of flake food, skipping two days. I fed one single catfish pellet before going to bed last night and haven't fed them since

I don't think there is anything rotting in the tank, I haven't been able to count all 12 corydoras but I removed all of my plants and scape yesterday and didn't see any corpses. This doesn't rule out the possibility of one buried in the substrate. Last time I counted 12 was last week

Doesn't appear to be a cycle crash; my ntirates are up 5ppm from 0ppm this morning

Yes, it was cycled.

Yes it has lots of plants, including anacharis

I added 5ml of profito fertiliser within the last week

 

I've been adding seachem with the water changes in order to keep the ammonia at bay but if anyone has any suggestions I am desperate. The "nuclear option" is to remove literally everything from the tank, put the sponge filter in a bag with tank water, drip acclimate the fish to fresh, dechlorinated tap water, and add everything back in.

[Daniel]

I assume you are using the API Freshwater Master Test Kit?

The ammonia test in the API test kit tests for total ammonia using the salicylate test. Seachem warns that use of Seachem will give false reading on ammonia test taken within 24 hours of using Seachem Prime.

[ClockworkCatfish]

M

2 minutes ago, Daniel said:

My understanding is that seachem prime gives false readings inasmuch as the bound ammonia can still react with the salicylate test. That ammonia is still there, just in a non harmful form, and the ammonia being there in the first place is still troublesome.

[Brandy]

While I agree that this it troublesome, I think @Danielis saying that if you are dosing extra prime the ammonia may appear to spike even higher as the prime itself may interact with the test. I think even if you have a cory buried in the substrate, you should be able to get thru this without nuking the tank. 

52 minutes ago, ClockworkCatfish said:

I don't think there is anything rotting in the tank, I haven't been able to count all 12 corydoras but I removed all of my plants and scape yesterday and didn't see any corpses. This doesn't rule out the possibility of one buried in the substrate.

Unless you put your plants and scape back immediately I would worry that right there could crash your cycle. I would get the plants back in asap, and keep the prime in there to protect the fish while you wait for the bacteria to bloom and catch up to whatever the new food source is. Newer tanks can just be a little touchy.

[ClockworkCatfish]

4 minutes ago, Brandy said:

While I agree that this it troublesome, I think @Danielis saying that if you are dosing extra prime the ammonia may appear to spike even higher as the prime itself may interact with the test. I think even if you have a cory buried in the substrate, you should be able to get thru this without nuking the tank. 

Unless you put your plants and scape back immediately I would worry that right there could crash your cycle. I would get the plants back in asap, and keep the prime in there to protect the fish while you wait for the bacteria to bloom and catch up to whatever the new food source is. Newer tanks can just be a little touchy.

I only took the plants and scape out for 20 minutes, to allow me to see if there was anything rotting behind driftwood, sponge filter and substrate stayed in the tank.

Edited November 18, 2020 by ClockworkCatfish

[Coronal Mass Ejection Carl]

1 hour ago, Daniel said:

I assume you are using the API Freshwater Master Test Kit?

The ammonia test in the API test kit tests for total ammonia using the salicylate test. Seachem warns that use of Seachem will give false reading on ammonia test taken within 24 hours of using Seachem Prime.

Strange, since the reagents don't contain chloride. And Prime probably doesn't contain sodium thiosulfate.

[Daniel]

My understanding of the salicylate test is that the first step involves the conversion of ammonia to monochloroamine by the addition of chlorine. In the API test I have always assumed that is what the first eight drops in bottle #1 are.

According Seachem Prime is - Ingredients: Proprietary aqueous solution of complexed hydrosulfite salts.(which is not Sodium thiosulfate).

[MyDaughtersTank]

Your test results are all over the map to the point that I wonder if maybe your testing method is faulty?  Have you tried confirming results with another test kit?

[silverspec04]

10 hours ago, ClockworkCatfish said:

I have a 15 gallon tank with 12 salt and pepper corydoras and 6 white cloud minnows, that's been up and running for 3 months, finished cycling 2 months ago. Yesterday I noticed my fish acting weird so I did a water test and it returned 8ppm ammonia, up from 0.25ppm 4 days ago, after which I did a 50% water change. I immediately did an 80% water change, got 0 ammonia readings. Also tested my tap water, which returned 0.25ppm ammonia. I tested the water this morning, 0.25ppm ammonia, did a 10% water change, 5 hours later I tested the water and it returned 4ppm!. What's going on?

Quick answers:

For the last 4 days I've been giving 1 catfish pellet and one small pinch of flake food, skipping two days. I fed one single catfish pellet before going to bed last night and haven't fed them since

I don't think there is anything rotting in the tank, I haven't been able to count all 12 corydoras but I removed all of my plants and scape yesterday and didn't see any corpses. This doesn't rule out the possibility of one buried in the substrate. Last time I counted 12 was last week

Doesn't appear to be a cycle crash; my ntirates are up 5ppm from 0ppm this morning

Yes, it was cycled.

Yes it has lots of plants, including anacharis

I added 5ml of profito fertiliser within the last week

 

I've been adding seachem with the water changes in order to keep the ammonia at bay but if anyone has any suggestions I am desperate. The "nuclear option" is to remove literally everything from the tank, put the sponge filter in a bag with tank water, drip acclimate the fish to fresh, dechlorinated tap water, and add everything back in.

You might look over my thread I started. I had a similar ammonia problem, I go over everything I did and I finally came out successful. Something is overloading your cycle if the bacteria and plants can't come back. Have you gravel vac'd to ensure all food and junk are out? Even looking clean, my water after gravel vacing it was disgusting! 

 

[ClockworkCatfish]

I haven't added any anti bacterials and the cycle is definitely still going on, I briefly removed all ornaments to check for corpses and found none

[silverspec04]

2 hours ago, ClockworkCatfish said:

I haven't added any anti bacterials and the cycle is definitely still going on, I briefly removed all ornaments to check for corpses and found none

I understand, but your cycle isn't strong enough for whatever is giving off the ammonia. In my case it turned out to be something in the substrate. I weakened my cycle with the meds, yes, but ultimately, if ammonia cannot be taken out or reduce with water changes, then there's a source in the water. 

[silverspec04]

Have you done a thorough gravel vacuum?

[ClockworkCatfish]

21 hours ago, MyDaughtersTank said:

Your test results are all over the map to the point that I wonder if maybe your testing method is faulty?  Have you tried confirming results with another test kit?

So. I decided to test this. I took a bowl of tapwater, squirted in maybe 10/20mls of Dr tims ammonium chloride, at the end of the test it was light green, 10 minutes later it was black. I added more ammonium chloride, waited for a while for it all to diffuse (also swirling it around), retested, after 5 minutes it was a lighter green than the previous test, 5 minutes later it is turquoise. I will be ordering another test kit as soon as my replacement debit card arrives. Will be periodically adding prime until then.