Amazon Puffer Fish Journal

[NOLANANO]

On 2/18/2024 at 11:35 PM, mountaintoppufferkeeper said:

@NOLANANO the grit has lots of probiotic organisms and a little vegetable oil. It is my understanding that is more to aid poultry in digestion of foods.  

I have never tried grit. I would guess that  could negatively impact water quality with the microbes and oil it contains and would not acomplish the beak wear on the puffers.

I have only done the flake form of oyster shell. That will say 100% oyster shell on ingredients normally. I think the flake mixes well in the repashy here i prefer it to the other non flake versions which are basically just chunks

. 

This is my fear. Unless someone can definitively say that its safe, I am probably going to order actual crushed oyster shells and throw the poultry grit out.

[NOLANANO]

On 2/19/2024 at 1:26 AM, Lennie said:

1) Do your puffers accept repashy/commercial foods? Or will it be your first try?

2) My LFS fed them mealworms but I dont think think they are good in terms of nutrition based on my little research and if they are even good for them in general. 
 

3) I had a couple neocaridinas in the tank but I have seen him trying to make a move only once, and he failed. Shrimp just got away easily. I have not seen him eating any neocaridinas in the 3 week period but long time might changed things. At least I had an opportunity to have neocaridinas as a cleanup crew because puffers are messy eaters!

4) And lastly, he accepted frozen spirulina brine shrimp cube happily.

5) The guy I shared above sadly failed the observational quarantine period and I lost him 😭. So I didnt have a chance to try more food. I have no idea why, but yea, the batch at the lfs also looked horrible when I visited while mine remain okay during that time. It was only a one day thing. Hope yours do much better.

1) This will be my first try. Dan from Dan's fish did a video on making what he calls artificial snails with repashy and crushed oyster shells due to the fact that Amazon Puffers are too small to crush snail shells.  He said it took a week of putting the repashy in the tank before his puffers would eat it. I am trying the grub pie version because I have read that Amazon puffers are mostly insectivores so I figure this would be the best bet at getting them to recognize the repashy as food and then I could mix and match other repashy mixes to get a more balance diet. My plan is to feed a frozen or live food every other day and rotate with the repahsy on days they dont get frozen or live foods. BUT I have to get them to accept the repashy before we get there.

2) Yeah I read the same. I plan to use these as an occasional treat more than anything. They have a hard exoskeleton so right now I am feeding them to try to wear down the beaks a bit while I figure out the repashy thing. If I can get them on the repashy, I will cut back on the mealworms and make them a holiday treat. ( I like getting my dog and my fish treats for the major holidays).

3) I plan to get like 10 ghost shrimp and see if I can invoke their hunter spirit with them. Give them something to look for in the plants and structure. I am not sure if they will actually go for the ghost shrimp though as there is already an Amano shrimp in the tank and they haven't hunted it. The Amano shrimp is older and possible just too big for them. Maybe the ghost shrimp will be a better option. If they don't eat the shrimp, at least I will have a little clean up crew.

4) This is a good idea. I had these cubes a while back. I will have to look for some at my LFS.

5) That is very sad news indeed. Were there signs it was going south? or did you wake up one morning and he was gone? I have the luck of having multiple so when one succumbed to unknown issues, I have 4 others to fall back on. The first few days I also felt a little bad for my puffers as they glass surfed the whole time and kind of aggravated their tankmates but they have really settled into their new home. While they do glass surf a decent amount, they also explore their environment a good bit as well and have learned that seeing me is possibly a dinner bell. This helps because if they are glass surfing when I walk up, they stop and swim over to see if I have anything. If I just sit in my chair in front of the tank, they usually start exploring. My guess is that seeing me makes "their mouth water" and if I don't feed then they start hunting. but IDK, I'm just guessing. Whatever the reason, I like the behavior because I get to see them be interesting when I sit and watch them instead of just glass surfing.

Edited February 19 by NOLANANO

[NOLANANO]

On 2/18/2024 at 11:35 PM, mountaintoppufferkeeper said:

 

I have only done the flake form of oyster shell. That will say 100% oyster shell on ingredients normally. I think the flake mixes well in the repashy here i prefer it to the other non flake versions which are basically just chunks

. 

Just purchased some actual Oyster Flakes off Amazon. I wish I had realized the poultry grit wasn't oyster shells before opening the bag. I now have 5 pounds of useless pebbles. Maybe I can use it in the garden or something.

[NOLANANO]

I think I figured out what may have killed the one puffer (maybe not since I didn’t see any signs or symptoms) but all 4 of my remaining puffers have ich. Its hard to get a pic of it because they are so active and it seems to be fairly mild (just a few spots on each) but you can see one spot on one puffers back and 2 spots on another puffers tail in the pics below.

i dosed Ich X tonight and cranked my heat up from about 79-80 to 83-85 (hard to tell exactly on the heater).

my issue is that I only have enough ich x for one more full dose and I think I’ll take a few days before I can get more from ACO. I don’t think any of the local stores carry ich x so I have to get it shipped.  

I do have one dose of Paraguard from a prior incident and could probably get my hands on more of that from a LFS. Is going back and forth between ich x and paraguard a bad idea?

@mountaintoppufferkeeper @Lennie @Guppysnail
 

Edited February 20 by NOLANANO

[mountaintoppufferkeeper]

I have no idea on that switching between the meds personally.

Ich x works for me when needed I havent ever tried paraguard. I just follow the bottle instructions and it seems to be very effective.

[Lennie]

On 2/20/2024 at 6:50 AM, NOLANANO said:

I think I figured out what may have killed the one puffer (maybe not since I didn’t see any signs or symptoms) but all 4 of my remaining puffers have ich. Its hard to get a pic of it because they are so active and it seems to be fairly mild (just a few spots on each) but you can see one spot on one puffers back and 2 spots on another puffers tail in the pics below.

i dosed Ich X tonight and cranked my heat up from about 79-80 to 83-85 (hard to tell exactly on the heater).

my issue is that I only have enough ich x for one more full dose and I think I’ll take a few days before I can get more from ACO. I don’t think any of the local stores carry ich x so I have to get it shipped.  

I do have one dose of Paraguard from a prior incident and could probably get my hands on more of that from a LFS. Is going back and forth between ich x and paraguard a bad idea?

@mountaintoppufferkeeper @Lennie @Guppysnail
 

Yea my puffer also had ich but since it was a brackish type, with gradually increased salinity, the ich was gone. 
 

We don’t have ich-x in my country but we have a local product that has the same ingredients of formaldehyde and malachite green. Sera costapur F seems to have similar ingredients too, malachite green oxalate and formaldehyde.

I have also never used paraguard before.  But to my understanding it has malachite green, but not formalin/formaldehyde which is also effective against parasites. I am not sure if the replacement of this ingredient works as good as formalin/formaldehyde to treat the problem. 
 

@Colu may know if it is okay to mix two and continue treating that way

[Colu]

You can use paraguard it's not as effective as ick X it has less of the  active ingredient malachite green and it doesn't have formaldehyde as long as you do a large water change and run active carbon to remove any remaining medication then I would such over to paraguard till you can get more ick X @NOLANANO

[NOLANANO]

On 2/20/2024 at 5:49 AM, Colu said:

You can use paraguard it's not as effective as ick X it has less of the  active ingredient malachite green and it doesn't have formaldehyde as long as you do a large water change and run active carbon to remove any remaining medication then I would such over to paraguard till you can get more ick X @NOLANANO

I don't currently have any carbon (don't use it in my planted tank). How important is that aspect? I do have a UV light in my filter that is currently turned off. Would a water change and the UV sterilizer be enough to breakdown the meds between dosing?

If so, how long should I run the UV before turning it back off and dosing again?

Also how important is it to get the dosing exactly right? I dosed for a 75G but now that I am thinking about it, the sand and decor probably take up some space so there may not be exactly 75G in the tank.  

Edit: I just got my shipment notice from ACO and it looks like the Ich X will get to me by Friday. I have enough Ich X for a dose tonight (Tuesday) and I have enough ParaGuard to dose tomorrow night (Wednesday). How big of a deal is it if I miss a dose on Thursday? Should I go find a med at the LFS with malachite green for that day or would it be fine to miss one day?

@Colu

Edited February 20 by NOLANANO

[Colu]

Yes UV light and a water change will be enough to remove any remaining medication it depends on the turn over of your filter as to how long it will take to remove any remaining medication just remember to turn it back off before adding more medication missing one day medication shouldn't set your fish back if they only have a few spots if they have lots of spots i wouldn't miss a days treatment I always account for at least 5 gallons for substrate hard scrap filter heater in larger tanks I would dose like it was a 70 gallon @NOLANANO

Edited February 20 by Colu

[NOLANANO]

Here is a video of the puffers eating a meal worm and some frozen bloodworms. It was during this feeding that I realized they had Ich spots on them. But as you can see, they are still energetic and have an apatite.

[NOLANANO]

@Colu is it normal to see the ich parasites jumping on the surface of the water/ crawling on the walls as I do a water change? Below is a video of the pests. I’m wondering if might be something other than ich because I don’t see anything like this when I google ich.

 

Edited February 21 by NOLANANO

[Colu]

I don't think that's ich the adult ich leave the fish then the tomont usually attachs to the bottom of the tank with way there swimming possible Cyclops if above or on the surface could be spring tails @NOLANANO

Edited February 21 by Colu

[Schuyler]

On 2/20/2024 at 6:02 PM, Colu said:

if above or on the surface could be spring tails

I second that looking like a springtail. They're harmless. I actually paid to get some in my tank for an above water segment. Maybe some of the smaller fish will try and eat it.

[NOLANANO]

Day 14 update:

the ick is looking much better. Still a few spots left but definitely much improved. None of the 4 ever lost their energy or apatite.  I treated with Ich x on Monday and Tuesday and then skipped Wednesday. Today I used a dose of Paraguard because I ran out of ich x and won’t get more until tomorrow. I’ll dose with the ich x daily until I don’t see anymore white spots and then I’ll dose for a day after that.

Today I fed the Repashy grub pie mixed with oyster shells and it went better than expected. Only only one of the puffers ate it but that puffer completely gorged itself to the point where I thought it might pop (see pick below lol).  The other 3 puffers seemed interested but none of them pushed their way in the crowd to get the Repashy. All the other fish in the tank also liked the Repashy. I put it in a glass bowl so that I could remove the oyster shells after they were finished and it worked well but there was definitely a learning curve.  The one puffer that did eat, took a minute to figure out that he couldnt eat the food through the side of the bowl and had to go in from the top. Hopefully the other 3 puffers will be a little more daring tomorrow.

[Odd Duck]

Looks like you already got excellent answers for the questions I was tagged in. Sorry I’m not on the forum every day. Also sorry for your loss but agree with @mountaintoppufferkeeper that there will sometimes be losses. Especially in such young fish that have been through a lot before they get to you.

I think you’re on the right track now. 

[IanB]

Great to see another person keeping these @NOLANANO. I have a group of six and have had similar ups and downs with food. They love bloodworms and like clams but not the shells. When hungry enough, they will eat frozen krill. Mine get along well with mid-size schooling fish (say rosy barb size) but have made a snack of some smaller rummynoses. Corys are completely ignored. Some love playing in the bubbles from an airstone, while others prefer to be a bit more sedentary and slowly cruise around waiting for something to play with/chase a bit. They seem to appreciate a heavily planted/hardscaped tank.

 

Edit: I should note that mine are probably twice the size of yours, maybe a bit more, so they are much larger than the rummys. I'm sure at their current size, yours are fine with them. When they get bigger.... well I caught one of mine with half a rummynose sticking out of their mouth.

Edited February 25 by IanB
Additional info

[NOLANANO]

Day 18 Update:

These guys for the most part aren't as picky of eaters as I feared. I have 1 that will legit eat anything I put in the tank, 1 that isn't far behind, 1 thats 50/50, and 1 that will pick at stuff but only gorges itself on Beefheart. I fairly worried about the beefheart one because its the smallest and it seems interested in other food but never takes more than a bite or 2. For example, it will approach blood worms but back off at the last second and only actually eat a worm or 2. With the repashy, he goes, gets close, but never takes a bite. Its very strange because it looks like it wants to eat it but just doesn't. It will completely fill itself with beefheart though so that is a bit reassuring.  The one that eats everything is the largest and a bit of a thief when it comes to meal worms. I usually drop 5-6 in the tank and he will eat like 3 of them. If he doesn't get to a worm first, he will try to take it out of the other puffers mouths. Its kind of funny to watch. But back to the Repashy, 2 of them east it well and a third does partake but not to the extent of the other 2. My Pleco seems to love it the most though. Luckily he comes in, gets his fill and then leaves.

The fish are getting along with their tankmates fairly well. They do occasionally chase other fish but not relentlessly and I swear I can see them smiling when they do it. Its definitely more fun for them than any type of true aggression. I'm sure my other fish don't find it nearly as amusing. 

@IanB can you share any pics of your puffers? I am curious as to how big these guys will actually get. Also have you had to do any beak trimming or have yours been able to maintain on hard foods alone?

[IanB]

On 2/26/2024 at 9:14 AM, NOLANANO said:

@IanB can you share any pics of your puffers? I am curious as to how big these guys will actually get. Also have you had to do any beak trimming or have yours been able to maintain on hard foods alone?

I don't have any good pics (I'm not in the same state as the aquarium right now), but here is a bad pic of one of them. So far no beak trimming needed, but I got them close to this size. I've had them less than a year.

 

[NOLANANO]

Day 25 Update:

This will probably be my last update until we reach the 3 month miles stone or if something happens (hopefully nothing happens). I have what seems to be 4 healthy and happy puffers. They all LOVE beefheart and mealworms. They all like blood worms (some more than others) and they will all eat frozen brine shrimp if its all that is offered.  When it comes to Repashy, I have 3 that eat it and one that won't go near it.  The one that won't eat the repashy is my pickiest eater. He will really only attack beefheart but will eat meal worms and a few bloods worms. He doesn't eat much else. I considered doing a second round of paraguard but after consulting with my puffer sensei I decided against it because all 4 are eating and active.

I have started to be able to differentiate between my puffers. The largest one always eats way too much and thus has been named Chunk. The smallest is called Pipsqueak. The too middle sized ones are harder to tell apart until I feed. One of the middle sized ones is the picky eater and I call her Princess or Diva because she is above the repashy which she obviously views as peasant food. The other middle one hasn't earned a name yet. 

[NOLANANO]

Random Check In: Wanted to add this tidbit before I forgot.  The puffers eat Hikari Cichlid Gold sinking pellets. They pick that them along with my other fish. The pellets are pretty hard at first and the fish (including the puffers) have to work at them to break off bits. I think this will be helpful for keeping teeth in check.  I am shocked that they are accepting this type of food. Definitely not as picky as I feared.

 

[NOLANANO]

3 Month Update:

Sorry no pics, these guys are constantly on the move and its difficult to get a clear picture.  I still have 4 puffers in my tank and 3 of them are fat little balls that eat everything and one (named Trucky) is a picky eater that will only eat frozen or live foods.  The rest will eat pretty much anything I put in the tank.  They are really cool fish and I like watching them "hunt" for food but I do think they glass surf way more than I would like. When I come to the tank, at least 2 will greet me and if I present food, all of then will come and eat but it feels like they glass surf the rest of the time.  Occasionally one or 2 will go hunting for food but then go back to glass surfing.  The glass surfing doesn't seem frantic and the fish don't seem stressed. they just enjoy going up and down the glass in my highest flow area.  I hope they grow out of this but it feels like this will be a life long habit of theirs. As long as they seem happy and continue to come eat, I will leave them be. If they become obsessed with glass surfing and refuse to eat then I may have to figure something out.

Amazon Puffers as tank mates: I would give them a 7 out of 10 as far as being good community fish.  Like I said, they glass surf most of the time and pretty much ignore the other fish.  Since getting them my neon tetra school went from 11 down to 7 and my Rummynose school went from 9 down to 6 but both of these schools are over 2 years old so I think its just natural deaths. I have never seen any of my puffers go after either schooling fish but who knows, maybe they attack at night. The other thing that knocks them as tank mates is the occasional fin nipping.  I believe all of the fin nipping can be attributed to my little problem child Trucky. He's the picky eater and I think he fin nips when he gets really hungry but its not a constant and I've never witnessed him fin nip per se. I just see what looks like little chunks missing from a Dorsal fin every now and then.  The first victim was a couple of Panda Cories, the second was a Julii Cory, and the latest victim is one of my 3 Apisto Borelli.  At least for the Borelli, I can't rule out one of the other males since they constantly "battle" for supremacy and the best spots in the tank.  Because Trucky refuses anything that isn't frozen or live, he tends to not eat on days when I feed Repashy, Algae wafers, or cichlid gold. On these days, especially if they are back to back, I see Trucky hunting for food all around the plants and structure. On occasion I have seen him chase other fish for a little bit but its never for long and honestly seems to be fun for him rather than aggressive or territorial and I have never seen him actually get a chunk of fin from any fish. But because I know he has sharp teeth and he's the only one that I have seen even notice other fish, I am pretty sure he is the culprit.  Don't take this as a Trucky bashing segment because he is actually my favorite puffer I have. Because he is smallest, he is the most easily recognizable and because he eats less, he shows hunting behavior more than the others.  He is also always at the front of the tank and is first to greet me every time I walk up.

Tankmates for Amazon Puffers: It seems like most anything can go with these puffers but like I said, its possible that the tetras are slowly being killed off. I really do think its old age but I can't really rule the puffers out.  I'd say proceed with caution when it comes to tetra.  The fish I was most worried about taking a beating is the Pearl Gourami but I have never seen any chunks missing from her. She is the largest fish in the tank so maybe she is too big to mess with.  I think being able to fight back matters. My Apisto Borelli don't seem to be on the menu either. I did say that one of them has 2 fin nips that look like they could be from a puffer but they also could be from one of the other Apistos.  These guys are a little bigger than the puffers and don't back down so the puffers give them space. Equally important, the Apistos don't view the puffers as a threat either.  The only time I saw one nip at a puffer was when one of my females had babies. But she nipped at anything coming too close including my finger.  At first the Panda cories did not like their new tankmates but after the puffers stopped being enamored by them everything calmed down and they seem pretty unbothered by them.  The last fish in the tank is a bristlenose pleco and she's a beast that no one messes with.  I would say one thing that is super important for puffer tankmates is having multiple caves for them to be able to hide in if a puffer like Trucky decides to chase them.  For whatever reason, the puffers stay out in the open and don't go in caves.

Overall, I am very pleased with my puffer journey thus far and can't wait to learn more about them as they grow.  The only question I have, is there any larger South American schooling fish that I could get if my rummynose and neon tetra continue to dwindle whether from old age or puffer attack?

Edited 21 hours ago by NOLANANO