S. Repens issue continued.

[Supermassive]

On 12/5/2023 at 5:35 PM, Seattle_Aquarist said:

I was a chemistry major 55+ years ago but the computations based upon molar weights has long since left me.  Here is the information regarding 1/2 teaspoon of MgSO4*7H2O.  Maybe someone who took chemistry in this millennium can check the math for you...lol.

Oh lol that sounds like it would be to complicated for me. The calculator is fine. Thank you.

[Supermassive]

I got some epsom salts. Its unscented and the only ingredient is "Magnesium sulfate". It does say for external use only so I just want to make sure that it should be okay to use?

[nabokovfan87]

Should be the right one. Yes.

[Supermassive]

I did end up getting another Nicrew. I just hooked it up and they are both set at 40% now. 

 

I am noticing some brown algae on older leaves of the S. repens. A lot of the new growth is pale and wavy on the leaf edges but its still growing way faster.

[Supermassive]

I just tested my GH and its the same as it was before I got the GH booster and magnesium which I do not understand.

Does tap water GH change over time?

I added a couple doses of the GH booster which brought it up to 100ppm. Then after that I also added the magnesium. I did a water change yesterday and added both the GH booster and the magnesium but my GH is now 80ppm again.

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/8/2023 at 12:31 PM, Supermassive said:

I just tested my GH and its the same as it was before I got the GH booster and magnesium which I do not understand.

Does tap water GH change over time?

It can, but you would just test the tap to verify.  The plants or inverts may end up using up some of the GH and that could be attributing to the drop.  Sometimes buffers don't dissolve and a lot of them recommend that you dilute them, then add to the tank.  It's also been mentioned with things like KH buffers that over time they will "drop off" from your tank water and stop buffering.  It's just something to test, track, and really dial in the process.  It's tough to get it going at first, but once you do it's easier, I swear!

[Supermassive]

On 12/8/2023 at 4:34 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

The plants or inverts may end up using up some of the GH and that could be attributing to the drop.

I measured 100ppm 5 days ago. Could it drop that fast?

 

On 12/8/2023 at 4:34 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Sometimes buffers don't dissolve and a lot of them recommend that you dilute them, then add to the tank.

Its a liquid buffer. I also measured that it did bring up my GH so it did get into the water.

 

On 12/8/2023 at 4:34 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

It's also been mentioned with things like KH buffers that over time they will "drop off" from your tank water and stop buffering.  It's just something to test, track, and really dial in the process.  It's tough to get it going at first, but once you do it's easier, I swear!

Oh that's weird. Is that only for KH buffer or GH too?

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/8/2023 at 1:46 PM, Supermassive said:

I measured 100ppm 5 days ago. Could it drop that fast?

It could.  Initial reading after ~8-12 hours vs. 24 hours and everything has dissolved can vary.  There might be an initial high number, then it tails off as things mix around evenly.

[Supermassive]

On 12/8/2023 at 4:48 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

It could.  Initial reading after ~8-12 hours vs. 24 hours and everything has dissolved can vary.  There might be an initial high number, then it tails off as things mix around evenly.

I tested the day after, so at least 12 hours later. Should I just add more magnesium and GH booster and maybe wait two days to test again?

 

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/8/2023 at 1:46 PM, Supermassive said:

Oh that's weird. Is that only for KH buffer or GH too

KH is definitely a fickle one because of how KH works. But yes, all buffers I have heard it mentioned about how they "don't last forever".  Things like seiryu stone will be a constant stream of GH buffer, but slower.  Crushed coral would be a constant stream of KH.

https://www.aquariumcoop.com/blogs/aquarium/ph-gh-kh

 

Quote

 

KH measures the amount of carbonates and bicarbonates in water, which affects the buffering capacity of the water. This means that KH helps neutralize acids and prevents your pH from changing too rapidly, which is useful because sudden pH crashes can cause health issues in your fish. Low KH means your water has less buffering capacity and the pH swings easily. High KH means your water has more buffering capacity and the pH level is hard to change.

Think of KH like a trash can. The higher the KH, the larger the trash can. If we overflow that trash can, then a pH crash occurs.

 

 

On 12/8/2023 at 1:58 PM, Supermassive said:

I tested the day after, so at least 12 hours later. Should I just add more magnesium and GH booster and maybe wait two days to test again?

I try to wait 24-36 hours, then test.  So yeah, as long as it's been 24 you should have an accurate reading.

[Supermassive]

On 12/8/2023 at 5:00 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

KH is definitely a fickle one because of how KH works. But yes, all buffers I have heard it mentioned about how they "don't last forever".  Things like seiryu stone will be a constant stream of GH buffer, but slower.  Crushed coral would be a constant stream of KH.

I know KH and GH get used up by stuff in the tank but I thought you were saying it will go down for no reason over time. Like the boosters only work for a certain amount of time regardless of what's in the tank.

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/8/2023 at 2:13 PM, Supermassive said:

I know KH and GH get used up by stuff in the tank but I thought you were saying it will go down for no reason over time. Like the boosters only work for a certain amount of time regardless of what's in the tank.

Yes (and yes) both of those is alleged/reported to happen.  Basically, the initial dose will impact the tank and then the buffer particles dissolve. Secondarily, they are reported to "fall off" and after a few weeks stop impacting the water.  I cannot verify this as it's not something I've experienced.  KH gets used up as the tank generates ammonia and I think that might be the source of the confusion.  I have had GH and KH build up over time when using buffers, not drop off.

[Supermassive]

On 12/8/2023 at 5:21 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Yes (and yes) both of those is alleged/reported to happen.  Basically, the initial dose will impact the tank and then the buffer particles dissolve. Secondarily, they are reported to "fall off" and after a few weeks stop impacting the water.  I cannot verify this as it's not something I've experienced.

Okay I didn't know that. I don't think that's what happened, its only been nine days since I started using the buffer.

 

On 12/8/2023 at 5:21 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

KH gets used up as the tank generates ammonia and I think that might be the source of the confusion.

I didn't know that either but I'm not really confused about my KH, just my GH. I use 50/50 tap and distilled and my tank KH is half my tap water KH which is what I would expect.

 

On 12/8/2023 at 5:21 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

I have had GH and KH build up over time when using buffers, not drop off.

That is what I'm confused about. Mine didn't build up. Its like I removed it all with a 40%WC even though I added a little booster back in.

I think ill just try to repeat what I did and keep better track with tests this time to see when things actually happen.

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/8/2023 at 2:34 PM, Supermassive said:

On 12/8/2023 at 2:21 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

I have had GH and KH build up over time when using buffers, not drop off.

That is what I'm confused about. Mine didn't build up. Its like I removed it all with a 40%WC even though I added a little booster back in.

I think ill just try to repeat what I did and keep better track with tests this time to see when things actually happen.

yep exactly!

Let's say the tank was 100... your tap is 60.  If we "math it out":

100 ppm for 60% (water left in the tank)
60 ppm for 40% (water added to the tank)

= your solution that was 100 ppm is still 100 ppm and you're diluting down the ppm.

That "balance" of how much to add back in, how much to remove to keep water quality in check.... it's a balance! But it'll get easier.  Once you get it dialed in, test once a month or something and you should be able to maintain things with ease.

[Supermassive]

On 12/8/2023 at 10:54 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Let's say the tank was 100... your tap is 60.  If we "math it out":

100 ppm for 60% (water left in the tank)
60 ppm for 40% (water added to the tank)

= your solution that was 100 ppm is still 100 ppm and you're diluting down the ppm.

That "balance" of how much to add back in, how much to remove to keep water quality in check.... it's a balance! But it'll get easier.  Once you get it dialed in, test once a month or something and you should be able to maintain things with ease.

Yeah I guess I didn't calculate the correct amount of booster for the new water.

I think another factor is probably that my GH test is not that precise. It has a range of 20ppm. It goes from 80 to 100ppm with one drop so maybe before I got the booster I was a lot closer to 100ppm than I thought.

[Supermassive]

All plants seem to be doing better since I've been using the magnesium and GH booster. Java fern is making some nice new leaves. Anubias has a large new leaf coming for the past week or so. Ambulia seems to be producing more new shoots. Quadricostatus is growing well again. And the S. Repens is doing well that I can tell. I'm still getting some new growth that has misshapen leaves on the S. Repens but its only a couple of the stems. Most of them seem perfect to me. Maybe you guys can see something that I dont. Also I trimmed my ambulia when I did my water change on Wednesday and there was a big mass of green hair algae in the middle of it. I'm guessing its just too close to the light and I need to turn the light down a bit. Or I need to trim it more so its thinned out and not such a big mass blocking all the light.

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/22/2023 at 10:55 AM, Supermassive said:

Maybe you guys can see something that I dont.

Maybe the snails are eating the dying leaves.

Looks a bit better though!

[Supermassive]

On 12/22/2023 at 2:38 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Maybe the snails are eating the dying leaves.

Looks a bit better though!

Thanks. Yeah they probably are. I don't really care about the original leaves at this point. I think they will all die eventually. I just want the new growth to keep coming in and for the new mature leaves to stay healthy.

 

[Supermassive]

Starting to get algae on the leaves. It looks green and fuzzy and its blanketing the leaves. New growth is still doing decent. I'm not sure if its excess or lack of nutrients or too much light. The light is at 40% and if I want to turn it down it has to go down by half to 20%. I don't think that would be enough light. I think it would help if it was more dense but I just have to wait until I can trim it. I will trim what I can and replant next week.

Edited January 12 by Supermassive

[anewbie]

Probably lack of nutrients; i always fed mine root tabs and strong light. Of course these days I cheat and grow it like this;

 

 

Edited January 13 by anewbie

[nabokovfan87]

On 1/12/2024 at 1:40 PM, Supermassive said:

I'm not sure if its excess or lack of nutrients or too much light. The light is at 40% and if I want to turn it down it has to go down by half to 20%.

As long as it's growing I don't think I would adjust light. S. Repens needs a good amount of light and once you have enough it starts to take off.  The algae you're talking about is green dust algae or green spot algae.

Basically, the common advice is going to be that it's either....

-excess nutrients

-lack of  balance

-too much/not enough phosphate

-not enough CO2

-excess/not enough light

I know it's confusing and it leaves a lot of room for second guessing  if you're making the right change.  It feels a bit like a game of whack a mole or sometimed. The thing that makes sense for me in my tanks is to step back, double check all the parameters I can and go from there.  If I just changed light intensity up and that algae is forming, then I would lean towards that being a main cause. If I just upped dosing, then I would go that route.  If nitrates were very high then I would focus on water changes.

I hope that as the plant grows you're able to get things dialed in. It's absolutely a process. Small changes are key though and give them time to show an impact on the plants.

Edited January 13 by nabokovfan87

[Supermassive]

@nabokovfan87 That's what I'm starting to realize makes balance in a planted tank difficult. Both not enough and excess of the same thing can cause the same or different problems. It really is a fine balance. 

I've had the light at 40% for quite a while and the algae has only showed up in the past week or two so I agree that it doesn't seem like light is the issue.

I've been adding Seachem phosphorous weekly in addition to EG. This week I didn't add any phosphorous after my water change. I also didn't add any seachem comprehensive which I normally add weekly.

I'm still dosing the seachem iron once a week. I've been considering dosing twice a week. I've read plants absorb iron very quickly and I feel like I have a pretty decent amount of plants for my tank size. I'm also still dosing the magnesium at 1/8tsp weekly and the GH booster. Still struggling to get my GH to stay at 100ppm but I just need to keep adjusting the dose.

My tap water is also loaded with CO2. My plants pearl really nicely after a water change and the next day too. I see some pearls on a lot of the plants throughout the week too.

I'm going to stop adding the extra phosphorous for a couple weeks and not change anything else and see what happens.