Something is killing my guppies and I don't know what

[ToothlessTheGuppy]

[Warning, there are pics of a very sick guppy under the post]

Hello, from some time I'm fighting with some disease that keeps making my fish sick and killing them... I don't know what it is. At first I thought it might be swim bladder disease, cause 2 of them kept swimming in circles and leaning to their side, or with their heads down. Their poops were long, white and very thin. They are unfortunetely from import. Probably from Asia and I'm from central Europe. 

But the other one has different symptoms. His poops are also white for 2 days and stringy. He also isolate from the others from time to time. But he swims "normal". He has a specific way of swimming, yes, but was like that since he came to my tank. When I bought him he had his spine like weirdly bent and it's still remaining like that. I was affraid it could've been TB? I have also video of him swimming, but I can't upload here, so I'm adding from wetranfer https://we.tl/t-PmG3zzTn01 

I was using trypaflavine but it didn't change anything, now I'm thinking about using cure for parasites. I've also bathed them in methylene blue and malachite green before adding them to the aquarium. And I've added salt 2 weeks ago (which killed a lot of my plants).

I'm uploading photos of my fish. The black one unfortunetely passed away about 2 weeks ago. 😥 I think before passing he went blind, because his eye turned white and was black before. I don't know if it means anything. 

My tank parameters: 

Gallons 13
pH 7,5 
Nitrates 10 
Hardness 15
Nitrite 0 
Ammonia 0
KH/Buffer 10
Water Temperature 78,8 F
Cl 0

[Colu]

I think it would be worthwhile treating for a parasitic infections the bent spine can have a bacterial component it can also be caused by scoliosis that really common in guppies  or lack of minerals your kH and GH are fine as your in Europe I would treat them with a combination of Esha gdex active ingredient is praziquantel and Esha ndx active ingredient is levamisole following @Odd Duck treatment protocol for parasitic infections I would also get holed of Sera bactopur direct tables active ingredient is nifurpirinol is a broad spectrum antibiotic treatment have it to hand just in case there's a bacterial component @ToothlessTheGuppy

[ToothlessTheGuppy]

Hey, @Colu, thanks again for your advice 🙂 

There are meds available that contains derivatives of levamisole and praziquentel but the producer doesn't declare concentrations etc. Only that you should put it in your tank and after 6 hours make 80% water change and then use active carbon. (I'm attaching the label of the praziquental derivative translated by google). 

Other meds like this aren't available in my country without prescription. 😞 I guess I could do something like @Odd Duck, but I'm not sure about leaving it more than 6 hours, so maybe instead of doing 24h I'll do 6h. Sera bactopur is available in my country so it should not be the problem. 

I only wonder about benefictial bacterias... Last time I did big water change I had enourmous nitrite spikes every day, and my fish suffered from it. Even though I've added a lot of bottled bacterias...

[Colu]

On 7/27/2023 at 9:10 AM, ToothlessTheGuppy said:

Hey, @Colu, thanks again for your advice 🙂 

There are meds available that contains derivatives of levamisole and praziquentel but the producer doesn't declare concentrations etc. Only that you should put it in your tank and after 6 hours make 80% water change and then use active carbon. (I'm attaching the label of the praziquental derivative translated by google). 

Other meds like this aren't available in my country without prescription. 😞 I guess I could do something like @Odd Duck, but I'm not sure about leaving it more than 6 hours, so maybe instead of doing 24h I'll do 6h. Sera bactopur is available in my country so it should not be the problem. 

I only wonder about benefictial bacterias... Last time I did big water change I had enourmous nitrite spikes every day, and my fish suffered from it. Even though I've added a lot of bottled bacterias...

Am not familiar with this brand of  medication usually praziquantel it's a treatment over a couple of days to  a week not one day  I am not sure about this  I would have thought Esha medication would be readily available in most European countries if your get Sera you want bactopur direct tables not Sera bactopur that has a different active ingredient acriflavine you might be able to Esha gdex and ndx off Amazon or eBay I would treat with anti-parasitic medication Frist before going down the route of antibiotic treatments

Edited July 30, 2023 by Colu

[iwanttostayanonymous 92074]

I agree with @Colu, you should definitely try to treat the tank for parasitic infections. But another reason for you guppy’s bent spine is genetics. It really depends if he had the bent spine when you first got him or if he developed it. I’ve had a few guppies who had bent spines and they can live for a while but I never really found anything that would fix it. I actually had a yellow guppy with the same problem that your black guppy has. I posted it on this forum a week ago. You can access it if you click on my profile and go to activity. But the conclusion we came to is that the guppy had a broken spine and I had to euthanize it. So your black guppy might have a completely different problem then your red tuxedo.

[Odd Duck]

On 7/27/2023 at 3:10 AM, ToothlessTheGuppy said:

Hey, @Colu, thanks again for your advice 🙂 

There are meds available that contains derivatives of levamisole and praziquentel but the producer doesn't declare concentrations etc. Only that you should put it in your tank and after 6 hours make 80% water change and then use active carbon. (I'm attaching the label of the praziquental derivative translated by google). 

Other meds like this aren't available in my country without prescription. 😞 I guess I could do something like @Odd Duck, but I'm not sure about leaving it more than 6 hours, so maybe instead of doing 24h I'll do 6h. Sera bactopur is available in my country so it should not be the problem. 

I only wonder about benefictial bacterias... Last time I did big water change I had enourmous nitrite spikes every day, and my fish suffered from it. Even though I've added a lot of bottled bacterias...

Your solution is the same Praziquantal concentration as PraziPro and directions are 5 mls per 20 gallons (76 liters).  Do a large water change, siphoning out as much debris from the bottom of the tank as possible.  Leave in for 1 week, then do a large water change, again siphoning out debris.  Pairing this in a pattern as notes above in @Colu’s post with Levamisole (or flubendazole or fenbendazole) would be even better.

When you say that you had nitrite spikes last time you did large water changes, do you mean you were doing large water changes because of the nitrite spikes or that you had nitrite spikes because of the large water changes?  You shouldn’t have nitrite spikes after large water changes unless your water is high in nitrites coming from the tap.  If your tap water doesn’t have high nitrites and you get nitrite spikes, that’s a very different problem, likely too much mulm in the substrate.

[ToothlessTheGuppy]

Thank you for your response!  

On 7/27/2023 at 12:15 PM, Colu said:

get Sera you want bactopur direct tables not Sera bactopur that has a different active ingredient acriflavine you might be able to Esha gdex and ndx off Amazon or eBay I would treat with anti-parasitic medication Frist before going down the route of antibiotic treatments

@Colu I've found esha gdex and ndx, it's available in my country, I'll give it a try. 🙂 

On 7/28/2023 at 4:13 AM, iwanttostayanonymous 92074 said:

I agree with @Colu, you should definitely try to treat the tank for parasitic infections. But another reason for you guppy’s bent spine is genetics. It really depends if he had the bent spine when you first got him or if he developed it.

@iwanttostayanonymous 92074 He was like this from beggining, but he's with me for 2 months. He's very skinny, although he has apetite, but since yesterday he stopped coming for food. He's not that colorful as always and started laying at the bottom for most of the time while his gils are moving fast... I've checked water parametres. 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, 15 nitrates. I'm putting the food in front of him, and he's jumping at it immediately. But I'm really affraid it could be TB...

On 7/28/2023 at 4:13 AM, iwanttostayanonymous 92074 said:

I actually had a yellow guppy with the same problem that your black guppy has. I posted it on this forum a week ago. You can access it if you click on my profile and go to activity. But the conclusion we came to is that the guppy had a broken spine and I had to euthanize it. So your black guppy might have a completely different problem then your red tuxedo.

So sorry to hear that. 😞 I got attached to the black one despite the short time...

On 7/28/2023 at 5:12 AM, Odd Duck said:

Your solution is the same Praziquantal concentration as PraziPro and directions are 5 mls per 20 gallons (76 liters).  Do a large water change, siphoning out as much debris from the bottom of the tank as possible.  Leave in for 1 week, then do a large water change, again siphoning out debris.  Pairing this in a pattern as notes above in @Colu’s post with Levamisole (or flubendazole or fenbendazole) would be even better.

When you say that you had nitrite spikes last time you did large water changes, do you mean you were doing large water changes because of the nitrite spikes or that you had nitrite spikes because of the large water changes?  You shouldn’t have nitrite spikes after large water changes unless your water is high in nitrites coming from the tap.  If your tap water doesn’t have high nitrites and you get nitrite spikes, that’s a very different problem, likely too much mulm in the substrate.

@Odd DuckI was doing large water change because of using a medication (with trypaflavin's derivative) which I had to remove with active carbon and water change. Maybe it affected the beneficial bacteria since it's antibacterial.
I vacuum gravel once a week, so it shouldn't be much mulm in the substrate. 
 

Edited July 29, 2023 by ToothlessTheGuppy
i didn't refer to one fragment

[Odd Duck]

On 7/29/2023 at 2:13 PM, ToothlessTheGuppy said:

I vacuum gravel once a week, so it shouldn't be much mulm in the substrate.

It’s only partly about removing mulm.  You’re also trying to remove microscopic worms and their larvae and eggs.  The mulm is where those are hiding.

[ToothlessTheGuppy]

@Colu @Odd Duck @iwanttostayanonymous 92074 I'm sorry for @ you, but I'm really concerned... 😞 I hope I'm not being to pushy... The red fish died yesterday. The one with bent spine. 😞 I took some pictures of him, so maybe someone could help me to identify what happened with him, but I didn't notice anything abnormal exept being extra thin. (I've named him Blue (like sad), so the pictures are signed like that, sorry if it's confusing). 

I've also noticed, that the other sick fish, the white tuxedo has now bent spine too, and he had it straight before. I don't know if it's because of tuberculosis, or he's just weakened. He still leans to his side while swimming, but at least he's not rotating or swimming with head down like week ago. He floats in one place for most of the time. Exept him there are 2 fish in the aquarium, they don't have any symptoms I see.  

[Colu]

On 7/31/2023 at 10:18 AM, ToothlessTheGuppy said:

@Colu @Odd Duck @iwanttostayanonymous 92074 I'm sorry for @ you, but I'm really concerned... 😞 I hope I'm not being to pushy... The red fish died yesterday. The one with bent spine. 😞 I took some pictures of him, so maybe someone could help me to identify what happened with him, but I didn't notice anything abnormal exept being extra thin. (I've named him Blue (like sad), so the pictures are signed like that, sorry if it's confusing). 

I've also noticed, that the other sick fish, the white tuxedo has now bent spine too, and he had it straight before. I don't know if it's because of tuberculosis, or he's just weakened. He still leans to his side while swimming, but at least he's not rotating or swimming with head down like week ago. He floats in one place for most of the time. Exept him there are 2 fish in the aquarium, they don't have any symptoms I see.  

Have you started treating with Esha gdex or ndx yet if  you have it can still take a week or two depending on the causes before you see some improvement that looks like scoliosis that mainly has a genetic component more common in varieties of guppies with larger tail fins 

Edited July 31, 2023 by Colu

[ToothlessTheGuppy]

@Colu I've started with gdex. Ndx is not available now, but maybe it will be soon... So it might be scoliosis, even if he had a straight spine before? 

[Colu]

On 7/31/2023 at 3:54 PM, ToothlessTheGuppy said:

@Colu I've started with gdex. Ndx is not available now, but maybe it will be soon... So it might be scoliosis, even if he had a straight spine before? 

Yes it's more than likely scoliosis 

[Odd Duck]

I’m getting more worried about mycoplasma infections (AKA “fish TB”).  It is  considered contagious and essentially incurable.  I would still try the dewormers, but I’m losing hope that this is something that can be fixed.  It takes extreme measures to clear it from a tank - essentially disinfect everything and start over with fish from a different source.  Wish I had different news.

[ToothlessTheGuppy]

On 8/2/2023 at 6:31 AM, Odd Duck said:

I’m getting more worried about mycoplasma infections (AKA “fish TB”).  It is  considered contagious and essentially incurable.  I would still try the dewormers, but I’m losing hope that this is something that can be fixed.  It takes extreme measures to clear it from a tank - essentially disinfect everything and start over with fish from a different source.  Wish I had different news.

@Odd Duck I'm worried about fish TB too... Two fish (those with symptoms) died yesterday... 😞 So there are only two left without any signs of disease. But they are in the same tank, so I need to observe them for some time before adding any new fish. Don't you happen to know how long the TB is developing? I've found informations wich said that the time could be various. 
@Colu It all started when the temperature droped overnight from 78 to 71 degrees. I have a heater with thermostat but apparently something went wrong... The 2 fish started to isolate from the others and then swimming weirdly. The third one had bent spine since I got him, but about week ago he started to laying on the substrate, although ammonia and nitrite was 0 and nitrate was low. 

Edited August 2, 2023 by ToothlessTheGuppy
I forgot to write something

[Odd Duck]

Unfortunately mycoplasma organisms in general are rather unpredictable in behavior and difficult to treat.  I don’t think it’s possible to predict how long they might hang around.  I would try using extra bottled bacteria.  I, and others, have tried PondX with some good and some mixed results.  The goal being to put safe bacteria into the water and reduce possible attachment sites for pathogenic (bad) bacteria.  There may also be some immune system boosting from having more varied microflora in the gut.  Whether that extrapolates to helping with mycoplasma I have no idea at all.  But it’s cheap enough to try it daily (at the label dose) and you might get lucky.

[ToothlessTheGuppy]

@Odd Duck I tried to find "PondX", but I can't. There is no information about it on the internet

[Odd Duck]

On 8/2/2023 at 1:24 PM, ToothlessTheGuppy said:

@Odd Duck I tried to find "PondX", but I can't. There is no information about it on the internet

Sorry, PondWorx.  Should have looked at my bottle again.  😝 🤦🏻‍♀️ 🤷🏻‍♀️