What angel is this?? + Help with choosing a pair

[Lennie]

While scrolling down some fish content on ig, I saw this cute angel.

Does anyone know what these are called? Or is it even a strain?

 

Also, I saw someone selling his angel pair: they are named “blue marble angels”. I have never seen them irl before and the video quality looks a bit poor. Do you guys think they look as they should be? Could be a nice breeding project? 
please share your opinion. I will ask for more clear pics and gonna update the topic in the future. 

Here are the pictures of the fish. Hoping to edit with high quality pictures if the owner shares some with me. Dim lighting is also no help combined with poor quality video screenhots :,) 

@Fish Folk

 

He sent me a video and I took more screenshots from it:

Male:

female: 

Edited June 27, 2023 by Lennie
added more pictures

[anewbie]

The top one looks like a panda; a fish with 'blue' has pinoy gene - i find angels with this gene tend to have more defects if not directly then in off springs; but it is a popular mutation.

 

Here is a list of some genes for angelfish and how combination produces different colours:

https://www.aquaticcommunity.com/cichlid/angelfish-genetics.php

 

and another one:

https://angelsplus.com/pages/angelfish-genetics

 

There is a calculator somewhere that shows the results of mixing genes in different combinations. Angelfish is a popular fish for cross breeding different genetics to produce 'new' colour morphs.

[Fish Folk]

Great feedback from @anewbie. My son bred marble angels once. I made a post about that here…

Otherwise, my experience is limited. Here’s a nice introductory video to several common angelfish types…

Breeding Angelfish can become easy, but raising millions of fry is exhausting and space-consuming. Also, many times, buying a pair you love doesn’t guarantee the offspring will come out Looking like the parents. Commonly, Angels look like one or another of their “grandparents” — following Mendelian genetics. 

[Lennie]

On 6/27/2023 at 3:12 PM, anewbie said:

The top one looks like a panda; a fish with 'blue' has pinoy gene - i find angels with this gene tend to have more defects if not directly then in off springs; but it is a popular mutation.

 

Here is a list of some genes for angelfish and how combination produces different colours:

https://www.aquaticcommunity.com/cichlid/angelfish-genetics.php

 

and another one:

https://angelsplus.com/pages/angelfish-genetics

 

There is a calculator somewhere that shows the results of mixing genes in different combinations. Angelfish is a popular fish for cross breeding different genetics to produce 'new' colour morphs.

Thanks dude.

In the second website you shared, as you mentioned for blue color, it states;

“It also appears to be somewhat deleterious, causing lower fertility, weaker, smaller fry and more deformities to occur in many spawns.  Our opinion of this gene is somewhat tainted“

The guy said they are quite prolific and lay eggs around once every 10 days or so if the eggs are removed from the tank. He said he had nice batches from them before many times. So no issues with lower fertility for these two it seems. However, right now I texted him and asked if he ever faced any issues about fry deaths or rising them healthy/in appropriate sizes. Or any other issues actually. He mentioned several times that the fish are very healthy and said if you don’t like them by any means, I can take them back whenever you want pay back.

 

I don’t understand much from genetics, but as it seems to have marble genes obviously, can marble genes might be making these stronger than regular blues potentially?

 

[mynameisnobody]

@Lennie I have a pair of Ultimate coverage koi angels and a pair of Blue pinoy paraiba angels. I was going to sell them, but if you want them, I’ll gift you whichever pair you’d like. The only problem is shipping. I’ve never done it and don’t really have confidence in doing so. I’m in Florida, where are you? Here are some photos but these are NOT my photos. It’ll just give you an idea of what they’ll look like as adults, they are juvies currently. 

[Lennie]

On 6/27/2023 at 3:35 PM, Fish Folk said:

Great feedback from @anewbie. My son bred marble angels once. I made a post about that here…

Otherwise, my experience is limited. Here’s a nice introductory video to several common angelfish types…

Breeding Angelfish can become easy, but raising millions of fry is exhausting and space-consuming. Also, many times, buying a pair you love doesn’t guarantee the offspring will come out Looking like the parents. Commonly, Angels look like one or another of their “grandparents” — following Mendelian genetics. 

I can imagine the fry situation! But I think I can handle it with the new fishroom I built!

 I am between angels, pea puffers or any other mouth brooding cichlids rn. Going for something prolific can be nice for income. I considered pea puffers because they are cute, usually in demand, and sadly wildcaught mostly and endangered now. So I can help to spread tank bred ones at least I thought.

 

I did watch the video before! I have been considering angels for 2 years by now. Couple months ago I got me a platinum and black for my display tank in my bedroom. They are very cute. 
 

Now I thought, what if a breeding project? My lfs already has kois, blacks, half black laces, platinums, altums, bulgarians, albinos and blushing ones. So Id rather not buy a par for these as they can easily source them

On 6/27/2023 at 3:45 PM, mynameisnobody said:

@Lennie I have a pair of Ultimate coverage koi angels and a pair of Blue pinoy paraiba angels. I was going to sell them, but if you want them, I’ll gift you whichever pair you’d like. The only problem is shipping. I’ve never done it and don’t really have confidence in doing so. I’m in Florida, where are you? Here are some photos but these are NOT my photos. It’ll just give you an idea of what they’ll look like as adults, they are juvies currently. 

I would Love to have them. Especially the pinoys 😍

But I’m from Turkey. So that really is not an option to get them really.

however, I really appreciate your kind offer. Even you considering to gift them to me was enough for me. Many thanks

Edited June 27, 2023 by Lennie

[mynameisnobody]

@Lennie Hahaha shipping would probably be $70,000. No worries dude, just figured I’d toss that out there. 

[Biotope Biologist]

I’ve always liked the ‘wild type blue pinoy’ angels. I think they also go by ‘blue zebra’ 

Photo not my own:

 

Also I second or third or fourth the motion that the original angel posted is a panda.

[Lennie]

On 6/27/2023 at 7:48 PM, Biotope Biologist said:

I’ve always liked the ‘wild type blue pinoy’ angels. I think they also go by ‘blue zebra’ 

Photo not my own:

 

Also I second or third or fourth the motion that the original angel posted is a panda.

they are pretty I agree. There is also an appeal for me with this red eye going on. Idk what people think of it in general

but I’ve never seen these guys here before. I guess blues in general are rare here. Probably because they are fairly new to the angelfish keeping. And considering what anewbie shared regarding genetics, that explains why. That even decreases the chances of finding a pair sadly. Let’s say even healthier parents that are worth breeding. I would not like to spread whole local area with potentially weak gene angels with low quality of life.

Maybe I should lean toward some other cichlids with that I can utilise what I have on hand or pea puffers. I already have a black ram pair I will be breeding. 
 

Ive considered apistos but they don’t seem to sell insane here, idk why

 

 

[anewbie]

I've always been partial to platinum angels and black - as well as marble. I'm really happy with my bunch even though none are the more 'fancy ones':

 

Hum my platinum isn't in the frame for this picture but they are pretty easy to identify 😉

 

[Lennie]

On 6/28/2023 at 12:37 AM, anewbie said:

I've always been partial to platinum angels and black - as well as marble. I'm really happy with my bunch even though none are the more 'fancy ones':

 

Hum my platinum isn't in the frame for this picture but they are pretty easy to identify 😉

 

I got 5 platinum juveniles at first. But they all had worming issues I think. Also probably a bad batch, because when I visited my LFS again, I saw two deaths on their tank. Only 1 has made it through quarantine. And that one was the only healthy active one during quarantine too. Meanwhile black angel was healthy as it is when I got it.

You can see them on right here:

 

How long does it take for them to reach sexual maturity? 

[anewbie]

usually around 8 to 12 months - yours look maybe 3-6 months old - so 6 to 9 months probably. black bred with platinum will give you gold and blacks depending on black genetics - note that is not gold/black mix that is some gold ones and maybe some black ones.

[Ken Burke]

I just stumbled across this site -  http://www.theangelfishsociety.org/phenotype_library_2007/NewIndex.html  Thoughts?