Betta in HARD water...i need help.

[Ramie]

Has anyone kept bettas in water with a crazy high GH and a ph of 8.4? Or know breeders that sell who breed in harder water? Anyone have any experience in using a mix of distilled with such water to bring the pH and GH down?...if so have you encountered any problems with that method?

Edited November 8, 2020 by Ramie

[toverbeck95]

These guys are caring for tons of bettas, they go over how they treat their water specifically in this video (middlish).

[Ramie]

I love these guys.....but before i watch it...are they having my same problem? I know they just got a couple hundred bettas and are currently keeping them in bottled water....but i also have read bottled drinking water has minerals added for our taste that arent good for fish. You never know what to believe is fine or isnt fine in this hobby. 😥

[Ramie]

@toverbeck95 i enjoyed watching that and found it helpful. Thank you. 

[yannachka]

i have your issue. i have noticed over the years that bettas don't live as long in this water (likely accumulative stress from the super hard water). you will also start seeing fin curling in the long finned varieties. i have had more luck with locally store bought bettas (they are usually kept in tap water) rather than imported ones that were kept only in the soft water. i was able to breed in my water though so that did not pose any issues. you can dilute your water with r/o water or distilled (r/o tends to be cheaper when bought in a lfs), you'll just need to test the water to see how much dilution is needed to get it to the levels you want. 

[Ramie]

@yannachka I plan on using distilled from the store and testing that and seeing how it goes and if its a viable option. My closest fish store that isnt a petsmart is 2 hours away...but i could ask where they get their fish from and what their parameters are. Have you tried to change your parameters and had any luck with that? What did you do? Im unsure if its worse to leave them as they are or try to change them and risk instability.

[Ben_RF]

If you are going to use a smaller tank (like 10 gallons or smaller) and you don't have access to a reverse osmosis system, you could consider just buying water.  If you plant it up, you will be able to do minimal water changes which will help keep the cost down.  

I only suggest this as one option to consider in your situation.  If you do go this route, do make sure to keep your aquarium covered not only to prevent jumping but to help prevent water evaporation.  You may have to fertilize as the betta will not be producing that much waste.  

Edit:  Look up the brand of water and where you are buying it from.   You are able to find easily ph, gh, kh, etc. of the water pretty easily through a google search.  Also test your water yourself.  Walmart spring water for me here comes in at 7.4 ph.  

Edited November 8, 2020 by Ben_RF

[JaredL]

3 hours ago, Ramie said:

I love these guys.....but before i watch it...are they having my same problem? I know they just got a couple hundred bettas and are currently keeping them in bottled water....but i also have read bottled drinking water has minerals added for our taste that arent good for fish. You never know what to believe is fine or isnt fine in this hobby. 😥

Bottled water varies alot depending on what you're getting. I also have very hard water(off the scale of test strips). I've currently been lowering ph in my aquarium by mixing tap water with RO water to get the parameters I want my tank to get to. I use this water for 5 gallon water changes in a 29gal once a week. Maybe could do more, but I'm playing it safe. Over time the tank should gradually get to your target. My mixture is 1 part tap to 4 parts RO to get down to 7.2ph, 80ppm kh, and 75ppm gh. Do some experimenting till you find a ratio that works for you.

[Ramie]

@Ben_RF does walmart spring water work well for you? Do you keep betta? I have also considered using bottled drinking water but i heard it is too mineralized...not minerals that effect GH but ones added "for taste" but arent good for fish...but spring water and drinking water are different. Is that brand and type successful for you if you are using it? I plan on having several moss balls and some pothos. As far as plants. Thank you for your response.

[Ramie]

@JaredL i dont have the tank set up currently....wanted everything settled from the start so im not trying to change things with a fish in there.... How long does it take for the water to "mix" to get the reading of what it will be? Hours? Days? Has that been stable for you?

[Ben_RF]

Here is a quick reference to someone doing ph test on a whole bunch of store bought water.   This is wrote they wrote in their description for the water, followed up by the actual video:

Walmart Distilled Water - acidic 4-pH [orange]
Walmart Spring Water - neutral 7.5-pH [between green & blue]
Gerber Pure Water - acidic 5.5-pH [yellow-green]
Nestle Pure Life - acidic 6-pH [yellow-green]
Walmart Drinking Water - acidic 4-pH [orange]
Ice Mountain - acidic 5.5-pH [yellow-green]
Smart Water - acidic 5.5-pH [yellow-green] Note: Sorry, color changed after I called it.
Aqua Fina - acidic 4.5-pH [yellow-orange]
Evian - neutral 7-pH [blue-green]
Essentia - alkaline 9-pH [blue-violet]
Function Water - acidic 5 pH [yellow]
Super Chill - neutral 7.5-pH [blue-green]
Absopure - neutral 7.5 [blue-green]
Fiji - neutral 7.0 [green]
Evamore - alkaline 8-pH [blue]
Penta - acidic 4-pH [orange]
Poland Spring Water - acidic 5-pH [yellow]
Dassani - acidic 4-pH [orange]
Voss - acidic 6-pH [yellow-green]
Eternal - neutral 7.5-pH [blue-green]
St. Louis unfiltered tap water - alkaline 8 pH [blue]
St. Louis water filtered with the Alkaline Plus PH Pitcher - alkaline 9.5-pH [purple]

 

[Ben_RF]

And yes, I have kept bettas off and on since the late 90s.  Never a whole bunch, but gnerally I have always kept one for four to five years typically.

For a number of years, I really did try to chase the ph.  I would mix distilled water water with my tap water to get a more ideal ph and take make sure there are minerals in the water for the betta. You do not want to use just distilled water because the minerals have been stripped out, and your fish will need some minerals.

Since my ph stays between 7.3-7.5, I have since quit chasing the ph and just use my tap water for my betta tank. 

Edited November 8, 2020 by Ben_RF

[Ramie]

@Ben_RF well..since you have done all that before and been through it...what would you do if you were me? And your tap was 8.4 pH and at least 300 GH...use spring water?..mix tap with distilled and maybe add replenish or equilibrium to supplement minerals? Just leave it alone and hope they do ok? Not sure which way i should go.

[GardenStateGoldfish]

12 hours ago, Ramie said:

I love these guys.....but before i watch it...are they having my same problem? I know they just got a couple hundred bettas and are currently keeping them in bottled water....but i also have read bottled drinking water has minerals added for our taste that arent good for fish. You never know what to believe is fine or isnt fine in this hobby. 😥

I believe they covered this in one of their videos, I know bottled spring water is no good, I also know distilled water is no good. I think he was saying it has to be labeled bottled "drinking" water is the label that is good for fish. I am a tap water guy so I have no idea where to find bottled drinking water. 

[GardenStateGoldfish]

21 hours ago, Ramie said:

Has anyone kept bettas in water with a crazy high GH and a ph of 8.4? Or know breeders that sell who breed in harder water? Anyone have any experience in using a mix of distilled with such water to bring the pH and GH down?...if so have you encountered any problems with that method?

I have hard water and so far no issues at all, however my PH is much lower then yours, GH is around 300 ppm but kH is low, my PH hovers around 7 I add crushed coral to help buffer the kH, but no issues at all with my betta. 

[Ramie]

1 hour ago, GardenStateGoldfish said:

I have hard water and so far no issues at all, however my PH is much lower then yours, GH is around 300 ppm but kH is low, my PH hovers around 7 I add crushed coral to help buffer the kH, but no issues at all with my betta. 

I think i read a few years ago it was all bad really...spring because it varies so much so some is good and some isnt... and drinking because of the "added minerals for taste" that actually arent good for fish...but i think theoretically you can use distilled...its chemically basically the same as RO depending on the accuracy of the distillation process...but you cant use it as it is...not without putting minerals back in...but the pH is very low so you have to fiddle with that too it seems..but who really knows...i get different info all the time..im having a hard time keeping it straight. My KH is fairly high..but the test strips are kinda iffy on that...it always looks between 180ppm and 300ppm. I have a liquid kit now for KH but havent had time to really get it out and use it to get a more accurate number. May i ask how long you have had your bettas in water that hard? Im hoping im just over reacting. 

[GardenStateGoldfish]

40 minutes ago, Ramie said:

I think i read a few years ago it was all bad really...spring because it varies so much so some is good and some isnt... and drinking because of the "added minerals for taste" that actually arent good for fish...but i think theoretically you can use distilled...its chemically basically the same as RO depending on the accuracy of the distillation process...but you cant use it as it is...not without putting minerals back in...but the pH is very low so you have to fiddle with that too it seems..but who really knows...i get different info all the time..im having a hard time keeping it straight. My KH is fairly high..but the test strips are kinda iffy on that...it always looks between 180ppm and 300ppm. I have a liquid kit now for KH but havent had time to really get it out and use it to get a more accurate number. May i ask how long you have had your bettas in water that hard? Im hoping im just over reacting. 

I purchased my home last year so I have had the betta here for a little over a year, however in my previous apartment we also had hard water I think, I never tested it so I couldn't tell you how hard it was. I think generally as long as you keep the conditions stable, the betta will be really happy. 

[Ramie]

@GardenStateGoldfish My pH at least is definitely stable. Id feel better if it was a stable 7.6 or even 8...but maybe i am over reacting. I did have one betta live 4 years in a vase on water from this same well. But that was 15 years ago before i knew they really needed tanks...and possibly when they were a little less over bred...idk if wells change. Maybe i should just leave it as it is and see how the next one does. I might have just had a weak fish...my last fish was only with me 11 months...he seemed to be doing really well until the end. Thank you for your input. I really do appreciate it.

[GardenStateGoldfish]

4 minutes ago, Ramie said:

@GardenStateGoldfish My pH at least is definitely stable. Id feel better if it was a stable 7.6 or even 8...but maybe i am over reacting. I did have one betta live 4 years in a vase on water from this same well. But that was 15 years ago before i knew they really needed tanks...and possibly when they were a little less over bred...idk if wells change. Maybe i should just leave it as it is and see how the next one does. I might have just had a weak fish...my last fish was only with me 11 months...he seemed to be doing really well until the end. Thank you for your input. I really do appreciate it.

Anything could have happened, but just know ammonia is more dangerous at a higher PH so you want to keep an eye on that, also bettas can be sensitive to some common medications so if you were treating the tank for anything you could have killed you're betta by mistake. hopefully it all works out! good luck 😄