Rescued Clown loach rehab, will update

[Brainsponge]

I'm picking up a used 75g tank and they've offered this fish for free. The tank it's in looks pretty sad and neglected so I kinda feel obligated to get it out of there but anyway. They say its a clown loach, I know they get pretty big. It just doesn't look like it to me. Thanks for any input

Edited January 23 by Brainsponge
Changed topic title

[Colu]

It a clown loach looks like it has a bit of a sunken belly could have internal parasites or it's been under feed @Brainsponge

[Brainsponge]

Thanks. He looks pretty rough, so it was hard for me to confirm. I know they get pretty big and I was hoping to avoid another big fish but  I feel obligated to take him, so I'm going to. Even if it's just the chance for a better life. 

[Colu]

A 75 gallon tank should be ok for 1 clown loach when you get him I would start to feed him small meals multiple times a day for a week to see if he starts to put on weight if he doesn't than I would treat with paracleanse 

Edited January 24 by Colu

[Brainsponge]

Awesome. Thanks for quick response and hopefully I can rehab him. Thanks again

[FLFishChik]

Oh please keep us all updated on how this poor guy is doing! Hope he recovers and ends up fat and happy!

[Brainsponge]

On 1/22/2023 at 6:13 PM, FLFishChik said:

Oh please keep us all updated on how this poor guy is doing! Hope he recovers and ends up fat and happy!

I absolutely will. I'm just hoping he makes it to the quarantine tank for some food and rehab first. He looks much worse in person. I was told he is 4-5 years, and he may be 3ish inches. I will update, heading home now with him in tow. 

[Brainsponge]

Acclimated in the quarantine tank, hopefully he makes it through the night.

[Odd Duck]

Oh, that poor baby!  Thank you for trying for him/her but don’t be discouraged if it doesn’t work out.

That is a clown loach but it looks very ill.  At that age, it should be about 2-3 times that size so it’s very stunted and underweight.  I would give it 1-2 weeks of good quality food starting on the lean side for the first few days and gradually working up.  There’s a syndrome called refeeding syndrome that happens in many species of animal when too many calories hit their system after a long term starvation situation.  As long as you slowly build up, s/he should be OK.  Start with about half the food you expect him/her to need, then increase by about 25% each day.

If s/he isn’t putting on weight within 2 weeks, start deworming.  I’ll add my standard deworming protocol at the end (pardon the format/font size issue as it’s how it copy/pastes from “Notes” and it’s very challenging and fidgety to fix on my iPad).  You’ll have to be extra vigilant in monitoring during the deworming with a starved baby like this.  It will likely be permanently stunted, so it may not grow normally, ever, but should fill out some and look healthier eventually, even if it doesn’t get as big as normal.  We’re rooting for him/her to survive!

Deworming

Siphon out debris from the bottom before and after dosing to remove any expelled worms, eggs, debris, etc.  Levamisole is inactivated by organic debris and by light, so dose after lights out and black out the tank for 24 hours, remove organics via water changes and cleaning the bottom of debris as much as possible.

It’s likely that levamisole does what it can do within the first hour, but best to follow directions precisely.  If you have a bare bottom hospital tank available, it might be best and easiest to transfer the fish to that tank for the duration of treatment - up to 5 weeks total treatment time if doing 3 doses of praziquantal.

Levamisole treatment should be weekly for 4 treatments.  Praziquantal treatment should be every other week (at least) for 2-3 treatments and it is left in for a week at a time.  It can be dosed the day after levamisole treatment.  Remove any carbon or Purigen from filters before dosing.

Have enough dechlorinated water to do a 50% water change immediately if any adverse symptoms are seen in the fish.

 

A typical treatment regimen: 

1. 50% water change with careful siphoning of debris from the bottom of the tank.

2. Dose with levamisole and black out the tank for 24 hours.  Then 50% water change siphoning the entire bottom of the tank.

3. Dose with praziquantal directly after the second 50% WC.

4. One week later, 50% water change siphoning the bottom thoroughly.  Dose with levamisole following directions in step 1-2.

5. One week later (start of week 3 of treatment), repeat all steps 1-4 over another 2 weeks time.

6. Repeat all steps 1-5, then do last WC one week later after third dose of praziquantal.

Not all snails will tolerate treatments, so best to remove any snails in the tank.

 

Condensed, weekly schedule:

Week 1: siphon debris and do 50% water change, levamisole x 24 hrs, siphon.  Treat with praziquantal and leave in until next week.

Week 2: siphon, levam x 24 hrs, siphon.

Week 3: siphon, levam x 24 hrs, siphon, then prazi.

Week 4: siphon, levam x 24 hrs, siphon.

Week 5: siphon, levam x 24 hrs, siphon, then prazi.

Week 6: siphon.

[jwcarlson]

@Odd DuckWhat dose do you use for levamisole?  I think I typically hit about 2.4 ppm (900 mg/100 gallons).

[Odd Duck]

On 1/23/2023 at 9:04 AM, jwcarlson said:

@Odd DuckWhat dose do you use for levamisole?  I think I typically hit about 2.4 ppm (900 mg/100 gallons).

Here’s my recipe for Levamisole, but I used the cattle/sheep powder and used a very sensitive gram scale to divide it out into small zip bags (I used the bags that Ziss airstones come in).  It’s much easier to get Expel-P and follow the package directions which are written for fish use and match this dosage well, but at the time for some reason, I couldn’t find Expel-P anywhere.  I found these directions online and did the math to confirm it was appropriate dosing per my exotics formulary.

Fish Deworming

Levamisole 1-2 mg/L = 8.4 mg/gallon, 84 mg/10 gallon.  (42-84 mg/10 gallon.  42 mg for prophylaxis, 84 mg if symptomatic. 

Each small zip pouch is 7.2 grams.  Mix one pouch into 100 mls water for 72 mg/ml. 

Admin 1.2 ml per 10 gallons.  Solution can be stored in fridge for 90 days. 

Do large water change before Tx (remove as much debris and organic matter as possible).  

Turn off light and any UV, and remove any carbon/Purigen from filter for 24 hours. 

Do another water change after 24 hours. 

Repeat Tx weekly for 4 treatments. 

 

Can also mix 0.5 g levamisole to 7 g fish food pellets. Dissolve powder in enough water to soak the food.  Can mix into species appropriate Repashy. 

 

Edited January 23 by Odd Duck

[jwcarlson]

Do you know what else is in Prohibit?  Not that it matters, just curious.  I have pure levamisole one from DiscusX (they call it WormerX, but it's just levamisole) and one from somewhere else.  

I've been doing a recommended schedule from someone in the discus world as needed.  Dose on days 1, 5, and 13.  It seems to be effective in my limited experience with it.  I will say, though, treating in a bare bottom tank is great.  I have some apistos on sand that I have two doses in and what a big headache, I have no good feeling that I'm doing a very good vac of the bottom compared to a bare bottom.
 

Discus seem put off by levamisole in ways that other fish haven't been in my experience.  All the smaller stuff seems to bounce right back, but the discus will sometimes go on hunger strike for a bit.

Edited January 23 by jwcarlson

[Brainsponge]

Thanks for the info @Odd Duck
 

Overall update: He did make it through the night and is still kicking after I got home from work. Before I left for the day,  I put a small cube of Repashy in, a small pinch of flake in, and there are a few pest snails in there so he has a small bit of food available with variety. It looks like he did nibble on the Repashy and flake. He seems to be swimming around a little more but time will tell. 
 

Thanks for the help and input from all

[PineSong]

Thank you for giving this fish a chance. Fingers crossed for the little guy!

[Eric W-Farmhouse Fish Room]

You're doing good work!  Agree with others about possible parasites, but so many bottom feeders just end up neglected without people realizing it.  Gotta make sure they get food on the bottom that they can eat.

[FLFishChik]

I am so happy to hear he made it through the night. I am keeping my fingers crossed for this little guy!

[Brainsponge]

Quick update, he seems to be more active. Swimming around more and not just hiding in the cave I put in for him. Still not eating much but he is eating some. So good news all around. Now for another night of seeing if he makes it to morning. Thanks for all the support. 

[Odd Duck]

On 1/23/2023 at 10:32 AM, jwcarlson said:

Do you know what else is in Prohibit?  Not that it matters, just curious.  I have pure levamisole one from DiscusX (they call it WormerX, but it's just levamisole) and one from somewhere else.  

I've been doing a recommended schedule from someone in the discus world as needed.  Dose on days 1, 5, and 13.  It seems to be effective in my limited experience with it.  I will say, though, treating in a bare bottom tank is great.  I have some apistos on sand that I have two doses in and what a big headache, I have no good feeling that I'm doing a very good vac of the bottom compared to a bare bottom.
 

Discus seem put off by levamisole in ways that other fish haven't been in my experience.  All the smaller stuff seems to bounce right back, but the discus will sometimes go on hunger strike for a bit.

I don’t think there’s anything else in it.  It’s meant to be mixed into enough water to be able to administer a pretty small volume to cattle or sheep.  The volume of the stock solution means it must be quite concentrated to get the right dose to large animals (2 mls/100 pounds in cattle after mixing a packet into a quart, for instance, different concentration and volume for sheep).  The label doesn’t list any other ingredients at all, active or inactive.  Just the Levamisole.

[jwcarlson]

On 1/24/2023 at 12:04 AM, Odd Duck said:

I don’t think there’s anything else in it.  It’s meant to be mixed into enough water to be able to administer a pretty small volume to cattle or sheep.  The volume of the stock solution means it must be quite concentrated to get the right dose to large animals (2 mls/100 pounds in cattle after mixing a packet into a quart, for instance, different concentration and volume for sheep).  The label doesn’t list any other ingredients at all, active or inactive.  Just the Levamisole.

But there's a difference between 52 gram net weight and 46.8 grams of levamisole that it says is in each packet.  Maybe I am all crossed up in my head. 🤣

Regardless, if its working that's the main thing!

[jwcarlson]

@Odd Duck

Here we go:

 

The benzoic acid powder is probably for keeping spoilage down in the mix?  And lactose has almost got to be a sugar or an electrolyte maybe?

Edited January 24 by jwcarlson

[Lennie]

Poor baby. Hope he gets better

Glad to know it is on safer hands now.

[Brainsponge]

Morning update: 
He's eating snails! Vacuumed out the leftover food from last night this morning and started seeing empty snail shells all along the bottom. So I added more and hopefully he keeps it up.

[FLFishChik]

On 1/24/2023 at 10:46 AM, Brainsponge said:

Morning update: 
He's eating snails! Vacuumed out the leftover food from last night this morning and started seeing empty snail shells all along the bottom. So I added more and hopefully he keeps it up.

Woot! Hopefully he keeps trending upward! 

[PineSong]

Very exciting news! Happy for him and for you 🙂

 

[Odd Duck]

On 1/24/2023 at 4:41 AM, jwcarlson said:

But there's a difference between 52 gram net weight and 46.8 grams of levamisole that it says is in each packet.  Maybe I am all crossed up in my head. 🤣

Regardless, if its working that's the main thing!

It’s such a small difference that it doesn’t matter.  There is a wide enough dose range that as long as you don’t severely under dose or overdose, it’s going to work fine and still be safe.