Anubias turning white

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

Any idea why? I use Easy Green and potassium, and a Hygger light. Nitrates are usually around 30.

 

[Katherine]

Maybe a magnesium deficiency?

[Seattle_Aquarist]

Hi @Chick-In-Of-TheSea

Could you please provide the following:
1)  Picture of the newest leaf on the Anubias
2) Water parameters, especially pH but if you have dKH and dGH that may be helpful.

Thank you, -Roy

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 12/21/2022 at 11:01 AM, Seattle_Aquarist said:

Hi @Chick-In-Of-TheSea

Could you please provide the following:
1)  Picture of the newest leaf on the Anubias
2) Water parameters, especially pH but if you have dKH and dGH that may be helpful.

Thank you, -Roy

Will provide pic when I get home this evening, Roy!

ammonia-0, nitrite-0, nitrate-30, pH-7.5, kH-80, gH-180

Edited December 21, 2022 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[The endler guy]

On 12/21/2022 at 7:22 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Any idea why? I use Easy Green and potassium, and a Hygger light. Nitrates are usually around 30.

 

Photo bomb!

It almost looks like the plant is losing chlorophyll, similar to coral bleaching 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

I should also note, that very dark green stuff on the leaves is a type of algae that does not scrub off; I tried.

On 12/21/2022 at 12:07 PM, Aiden Carter said:

Photo bomb!

It almost looks like the plant is losing chlorophyll, similar to coral bleaching 

That's right @Aiden Carter - Snoopy always manages to get into the pic somehow!

[The endler guy]

On 12/21/2022 at 12:08 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

I should also note, that very dark green stuff on the leaves is a type of algae that does not scrub off; I tried.

If that’s the case it definitely sounds like chlorosis (a plant loses all its chlorophyll) 

[nabokovfan87]

Waiting to hear what Seattle_Aquarist says, but I think the green diatoms are hiding what's really going on.

Plant is covered in algae, so it's struggling, meaning that it's removing that part of the plant and pulling energy from that leaf or section.

If it's the whole plant it's usually a version of:

-might be burnt by the light

-might not have enough light (because algae)

-might not have enough nutrients (because algae)

Anubias is a pretty straightforward one and tells you when it's unhappy. Pulling the plant and using a toothbrush or coffee brush might be enough to get that stuff off the leaves and get it back to going strong.

(Edit: Sorry I was trying to mention, anubias can be pretty straightforward and recently I had changed out that light on my tank. They had been slowly declining and I had one leaf that turned to basically nothing. It's been in that tank for months and months, but just recently that's the first time I saw it absorb a leaf and make a change structurally. I checked the rhizome and it looked ok. Hopefully it's an indication that the right change was made.  The leaf I pulled was basically completely dead and had half of it's structure left. Before that change and before modifying the light it was struggling and yellowing similar to what you're experiencing. It was being ran as a very, very, very low light and non dosing tank for a while, so understandable)

Otos or Panda Garra might eat that algae up for you too. I would opt for a BNP or RLP because that plant has the big leaves.

I'm guessing this tank already has a BNP?

Edited December 21, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 12/21/2022 at 1:29 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Waiting to hear what Seattle_Aquarist says, but I think the green diatoms are hiding what's really going on.

Plant is covered in algae, so it's struggling, meaning that it's removing that part of the plant and pulling energy from that leaf or section.

If it's the whole plant it's usually a version of:

-might be burnt by the light

-might not have enough light (because algae)

-might not have enough nutrients (because algae)

Anubias is a pretty straightforward one and tells you when it's unhappy. Pulling the plant and using a toothbrush or coffee brush might be enough to get that stuff off the leaves and get it back to going strong.

Otos or Panda Garra might eat that algae up for you too. I would opt for a BNP or RLP because that plant has the big leaves.

I'm guessing this tank already has a BNP?

It does not.

The algae is super attached. I tried scratching it with my fingernail with no luck. The mystery snails have been trying to remove it also but they have not been able to.

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/21/2022 at 10:33 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

The algae is super attached. I tried scratching it with my fingernail with no luck. The mystery snails have been trying to remove it also but they have not been able to.

That's the worst. I used one of the blue kitchen sponges from time to time when need be and desperate. 😞

Often ended up just pulling the plant off whatever it was glued to and getting frustrated trying to figure out how to get the black algae off.

Another indicator here, just for anyone following along, then leaves are curling a bit.

Looking forward to seeing what the diagnosis is.

[Seattle_Aquarist]

On 12/21/2022 at 9:02 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Will provide pic when I get home this evening, Roy!

ammonia-0, nitrite-0, nitrate-30, pH-7.5, kH-80, gH-180

Hi @Chick-In-Of-TheSea

Never mind the additional pics, I think I can answer your question.  Looking at the picture below it provides strong clues as to what is happening.


Do you see how dark the leaf veins are in relation to the interveinal areas?  If the newest leaves show this same issue (or maybe worse) then the issue is insufficient available iron.  If the newest leaves look more or less normal and the dark leaf veins occur as the leaves mature then I suspect the issue is insufficient available magnesium.  Of the two issues I suspect the issue is iron related.  Why?  Because of the pH of your tank and the type of iron used in Easy Green - which is ETDA chelated.  Chelates are molecules that are bonded to iron molecules keeping the iron molecules in suspension and available for plants to absorb.

Notice I say "insufficient availability of a nutrient" and not "insufficient dosing of a nutrient".  Many think that "iron is iron" but that is not the case, in fact there are several types of iron used in fertilizers (both for aquatic plants and terrestrial plants.  The type of iron most commonly found in fertilizers is EDTA chelated iron.  Why?  Because it is the least expensive.  EDTA chelated iron works normally if the pH of a tank is below.  While EDTA chelated iron provides 100% of the iron in solution when a tank pH is lower than pH@6.2 as the pH increases the bonds between the iron molecule and the chelate molecule 'break' so that at pH@6.5 only about 1/2 of the iron in solution is available to plants at pH@7.0 only about 10% of the iron is available.  In a tank with a pH or 7.5 maybe 2% of the iron in the fertilizer is available to the plants.  (See Chart)

Other types iron do much better such as DTPA and EDDHA chelated iron.  Rather than trying to track down other types of iron I usually recommend individuals with higher pH level tanks supplement their Easy Green dosing with Seachem Iron.  It is made from ferrous gluconate making it much easier for plants to uptake and minimally effected by pH.  Dose as prescribed on the bottle once or twice a week.  It is easy to recognize when the iron issue is resolved by watching the NEW LEAVES as they emerge on the plant(s).   DO NOT WATCH EXISTING LEAVES, THEY WILL NOT IMPROVE AND MAY CONTINUE TO DECLINE. If the new leaves look greener with minimal difference between the leaf veins and the interveinal areas the problem is resolved.  A side benefit of providing sufficient available iron is typically faster plant growth since the leaves will have more chlorophyll and be able to produce more nutrients for the plant(s).

The Green Spot Algae (GSA) issue is unrelated to iron or magnesium but typically indicates insufficient available phosphates / phosphorus.  Hope this helps!  -Roy
 

Edited December 21, 2022 by Seattle_Aquarist

[The endler guy]

On 12/21/2022 at 1:29 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Waiting to hear what Seattle_Aquarist says, but I think the green diatoms are hiding what's really going on.

Plant is covered in algae, so it's struggling, meaning that it's removing that part of the plant and pulling energy from that leaf or section.

If it's the whole plant it's usually a version of:

-might be burnt by the light

-might not have enough light (because algae)

-might not have enough nutrients (because algae)

Anubias is a pretty straightforward one and tells you when it's unhappy. Pulling the plant and using a toothbrush or coffee brush might be enough to get that stuff off the leaves and get it back to going strong.

(Edit: Sorry I was trying to mention, anubias can be pretty straightforward and recently I had changed out that light on my tank. They had been slowly declining and I had one leaf that turned to basically nothing. It's been in that tank for months and months, but just recently that's the first time I saw it absorb a leaf and make a change structurally. I checked the rhizome and it looked ok. Hopefully it's an indication that the right change was made.  The leaf I pulled was basically completely dead and had half of it's structure left. Before that change and before modifying the light it was struggling and yellowing similar to what you're experiencing. It was being ran as a very, very, very low light and non dosing tank for a while, so understandable)

Otos or Panda Garra might eat that algae up for you too. I would opt for a BNP or RLP because that plant has the big leaves.

I'm guessing this tank already has a BNP?

Just make sure you keep those panda Garry’s at 100°F! 

[Patrick_G]

@Chick-In-Of-TheSea, the reverse respiration technique does a good job removing that stubborn green spot algae from Anubias leaves.   The nutrient deficiency might mean these leaves are beyond repair, but it can't hurt to try. 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 12/21/2022 at 1:50 PM, Seattle_Aquarist said:

Other types iron do much better such as DTPA and EDDHA chelated iron.  Rather than trying to track down other types of iron I usually recommend individuals with higher pH level tanks supplement their Easy Green dosing with Seachem Iron.  It is made from ferrous gluconate making it much easier for plants to uptake and minimally effected by pH.  Dose as prescribed on the bottle once or twice a week.  It is easy to recognize when the iron issue is resolved by watching the NEW LEAVES as they emerge on the plant(s).   DO NOT WATCH EXISTING LEAVES, THEY WILL NOT IMPROVE AND MAY CONTINUE TO DECLINE. If the new leaves look greener with minimal difference between the leaf veins and the interveinal areas the problem is resolved.  A side benefit of providing sufficient available iron is typically faster plant growth since the leaves will have more chlorophyll and be able to produce more nutrients for the plant(s).

The Green Spot Algae (GSA) issue is unrelated to iron or magnesium but typically indicates insufficient available phosphates / phosphorus.  Hope this helps!  -Roy

Thanks, Roy. Before doing anything, I will start by taking a look at the new leaves to see what the status is. Will post a photo if I can get a decent one.  I'm a little scared of iron because I have a bunch of mystery snails, and iron is metal, and metal is bad for snails?  I'm quite fond of them. Some I have hatched and raised from babies. Also dechlorinators remove heavy metals; would they not remove the iron if I did add some? (I use Prime).

On 12/21/2022 at 2:16 PM, Patrick_G said:

the reverse respiration technique does a good job removing that stubborn green spot algae from Anubias leaves.   The nutrient deficiency might mean these leaves are beyond repair, but it can't hurt to try. 

Thanks, Patrick. I did try this once on this plant, but it didn't loosen the algae so that I could remove it.  I'm not sure it had any effect on this stuff.  I suppose I could try it again.  It's easy & cheap enough to do.  The last soak was an overnight soak.

[Patrick_G]

On 12/21/2022 at 11:25 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Thanks, Patrick. I did try this once on this plant, but it didn't loosen the algae so that I could remove it.  I'm not sure it had any effect on this stuff.  I suppose I could try it again.  It's easy & cheap enough to do.  The last soak was an overnight soak.

Yeah, I have a few spots of algae that seem RR resistant too, it’s frustrating because clean Anubias look so good. A dip in a very dilute solution of Excel might work. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/21/2022 at 11:25 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Thanks, Roy. Before doing anything, I will start by taking a look at the new leaves to see what the status is. Will post a photo if I can get a decent one.  I'm a little scared of iron because I have a bunch of mystery snails, and iron is metal, and metal is bad for snails?  I'm quite fond of them. Some I have hatched and raised from babies. Also dechlorinators remove heavy metals; would they not remove the iron if I did add some? (I use Prime).

Literally about to dose my tank with iron now.

I'll check the bottle and see what it says with regards to invertebrates and snails. They have issues specifically with heavy metals I believe, the biggest one being copper. Keep in mind a lot of aquarium stuff is steel (stainless) and there's a lot of other metals common in there.

Animals do need some metals in their diets and that's where a lot of things like iron coming from protein helps them out.

Awesome question and I am intrigued as well. Definitely makes you think.

(I've never been afraid to dose the flourish stuff with my shrimp, only copper. I'm fairly certain my nerited had iron in their lives but that was so long ago it's difficult to remember perfectly)

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/21/2022 at 11:49 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

I'll check the bottle and see what it says with regards to invertebrates and snails.

"Safe for Invertebrates such as shrimp."

[The endler guy]

On 12/21/2022 at 2:16 PM, Patrick_G said:

@Chick-In-Of-TheSea, the reverse respiration technique does a good job removing that stubborn green spot algae from Anubias leaves.   The nutrient deficiency might mean these leaves are beyond repair, but it can't hurt to try. 

Isn’t @TheSwissAquaristthe master of reverse respiration? They are probably asleep though, so most likely no input until tomorrow.

[Patrick_G]

On 12/21/2022 at 12:09 PM, Aiden Carter said:

Isn’t @TheSwissAquaristthe master of reverse respiration? They are probably asleep though, so most likely no input until tomorrow.

Are you thinking of @dasaltemelosguy? 

[The endler guy]

On 12/21/2022 at 3:33 PM, Patrick_G said:

Are you thinking of @dasaltemelosguy? 

Idk know who, but I’m definitely thinking!

[Guppysnail]

On 12/21/2022 at 3:09 PM, Aiden Carter said:

Isn’t @TheSwissAquaristthe master of reverse respiration? They are probably asleep though, so most likely no input until tomorrow.

@dasaltemelosguy began Reverse Respiration and I helped him test it and discover it possibilities. 

 

On 12/21/2022 at 2:34 PM, Patrick_G said:

Yeah, I have a few spots of algae that seem RR resistant too, it’s frustrating because clean Anubias look so good. A dip in a very dilute solution of Excel might work. 

We found anything in the marimo family takes several back to back treatments or it takes alkaline water (sold as drinking water bottles in the grocery) as the second solution versus water to work at killing it. Though Green spot algae dies it does remain stuck to anubias leaves 😣

On 12/21/2022 at 2:25 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

I did try this once on this plant, but it didn't loosen the algae

 

 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

@Patrick_G @Seattle_Aquarist

 

[nabokovfan87]

Looks generally healthy to me. Some minor yellowing.  Probably a good idea to track down some iron or something.

[Seattle_Aquarist]

Hi @Chick-In-Of-TheSea

Not an iron issue since the new leave looks more or less 'normal' although maybe not as deep a green as I would expect.  So the issue is insufficient available magnesium (Mg).  Insufficient Mg causes the interveinal chlorosis (dark leaf veins with lighter interveinal areas) to occur in older leaves.

The way I deal with the soft water and low magnesium here in Seattle is by adding magnesium sulfate (aka Epsom Salt / MgSO4*7H2O).  Go to your local drug store and buy the cheapest Epsom Salt on the shelf with no additives, scents, etc.  It should cost about $1.50 for a pound.  When you get home do an initial dose of one-half (1/2) teaspoon per 10 gallons of aquarium volume.  This will add about 6.6 ppm of Mg to your tank.  You can add it directly to the tank it dissolves fairly quickly and is non-toxic.

Thereafter, when you do you your weekly water change, add 1/2 teaspoon of Epsom Salt per 10 gallons of NEW WATER added.  This will replace the Mg you removed when you drained old water out of the tank.  Again watch the new leaves as they emerge, DO NOT WATCH EXISTING LEAVES THEY WILL NOT CHANGE.  The new leaves that emerge after you have started dosing the Epsom Salt may look a little darker green since Mg is also necessary for chlorophyll production.  And you may also notice the rate of plant growth increase.  Most importantly as these new leaves mature they should not exhibit the dark leaf veins with lighter interveinal areas (interveinal chlorosis) that you see happening to the plants currently.  Hope this helps! -Roy

[TheSwissAquarist]

On 12/21/2022 at 9:09 PM, Aiden Carter said:

Isn’t @TheSwissAquaristthe master of reverse respiration? They are probably asleep though, so most likely no input until tomorrow.

That would be @dasaltemelosguy or @Guppysnail. I only use it !