black corys dying

[Odd Duck]

I would at least try Epsom salt dips.  1 tablespoon (about 30 grams) of Epsom salt (magnesium sulfate) per 1 gallon water (4 liters is close enough).  The gallon can be saved, no need for refrigeration.  Just use small amounts for the dips/soaks.  10 - 15 minutes daily for 5 - 7 days, possibly more days but less often after that depending on how they do.  Prognosis is guarded to poor with pineconing.  Pineconing can be from ascites (fluid inside the body cavity (coelom) or from organ damage and swelling of the organs, often the liver. It’s worth trying because it can occasionally be reversed, but be prepared for more losses.

[Ron.h]

thank you odd duck, i will try the epsom salt figure i've got nothing to lose and hopefully something to gain. all looks good in the grow tank at the moment, no losses for about seven days, and still not lost a snow white panda.

[Colu]

It's very unusual to have multiple fish displaying These symptoms  at the same time I would be suspicious of water quality such as high nitrates can weaken fish immune systems leave them susceptible to infection the bloating can be caused by kidney infection or internal parasites or internal bacterial infection's as you have done a first course of esha ndx I would recommend treating with Epsom salt baths  for no more than 15 minutes for 5 -7 days as @Odd Duckhas suggested keep a close eye on them during Epsom salt baths if you notice any  odd behavior remove them straight away from the Epsom salt bath and if you can get an  antibiotic treatment such as Sera baktopur direct tables or kanaplex the active ingredient kanamycin sulfate is a good antibiotic for treating kidney infection I would treat with that if you can't get them  you can contact a vet to see if you could get a prescription for antibiotics ESHA 2000 is only effective at treating mild external bacterial infection it won't help in this instance @Ron.h

Edited December 28, 2022 by Colu

[Ron.h]

hi colu, i will try to get the sera baktopur if it is available in uk. i too thought it strange multiple fish were showing these symptoms, and again only the black corys and not the pandas. the grow tank gets weekly 30% water changes, and on testing is only showing 25ppm nitrate, but obviously something is going on in the tank. thanks for everyones  efforts and suggestions and will update any developments. cheers ron.

[Ron.h]

i'm having no luck locating sera baktopur so far, but do have NT Labs anti internal bacteria, active ingredient Chloramine T. does anyone know if this would be effective?

[Colu]

On 12/28/2022 at 2:39 PM, Ron.h said:

i'm having no luck locating sera baktopur so far, but do have NT Labs anti internal bacteria, active ingredient Chloramine T. does anyone know if this would be effective?

Chloramine T is a general purpose treatment it's only effective at treating some external bacterial infection with the symptoms your fish are displaying antibiotic treatment would be the most effective treatment for internal bacterial infection's 

Edited December 29, 2022 by Colu

[Odd Duck]

On 12/28/2022 at 8:39 AM, Ron.h said:

i'm having no luck locating sera baktopur so far, but do have NT Labs anti internal bacteria, active ingredient Chloramine T. does anyone know if this would be effective?

I’ve not used Chloramine-T but the only info I can find is that it’s primarily used as an anti-infective and disinfectant.  I can see that it’s used to reduce parasite levels against flukes and has package claims against certain disease syndromes but doesn’t specify what organisms, just syndromes that could be caused by several different organisms.  It appears mostly effective as a topical like @Columentioned.  I don’t think that’s what you want to use here.  You need something that gets internal because the issue with pineconing is always internal whether it’s fluid accumulation, liver disease, kidney disease, etc, it needs to get in the fishes bloodstream and I don’t think Chloramine-T does that from what I can find.  There’s a study that says it’s poorly absorbed fingerling and juvenile trout even at very high doses.  It also decomposes slowly in air, liberating chlorine.

Keep using salt, do at least twice weekly, 30-50% water changes, and keep hunting for antibiotics - you will likely have to order them online from the sounds of it.

[Ron.h]

i could possibly find esha gdex as suggested earlier by colu. done some research and 1ml contains 66mg of praziquantel. dosage is 1 drop to 1lt of water, and 100 drops equals 3.2ml. would this be strong enough at suggested dosage to have an impact. i have done epsom salt bath today for 15mins. fish seemed to take it well and were fine when returned to the hospital tub. 

[Odd Duck]

On 12/28/2022 at 1:35 PM, Ron.h said:

i could possibly find esha gdex as suggested earlier by colu. done some research and 1ml contains 66mg of praziquantel. dosage is 1 drop to 1lt of water, and 100 drops equals 3.2ml. would this be strong enough at suggested dosage to have an impact. i have done epsom salt bath today for 15mins. fish seemed to take it well and were fine when returned to the hospital tub. 

Praziquantal is a dewormer, which should probably be done, but it is not an antibiotic.  You will almost guaranteed to need both to have any chance of saving fish that are pineconeing.

[Ron.h]

dosed the esha ndx again today and doing daily epsom salt dips for 15 mins. can't believe all three are still alive after 8 days of 100% water changes, epsom salt dips and dosing ndx esha 2000 and aquarium salt. found one dead cory yesterday and another this morning in the grow tank. these were not as swollen/bloated as the three in the tub, and i have not treated the tank at all, at least until i can pinpoint something specific. attached a photo from this morning.

[nabokovfan87]

Do you have any local hobbyists or shops you trust?  What is usually done for fish with dropsy in your area?

[Colu]

On 12/30/2022 at 1:42 PM, Ron.h said:

dosed the esha ndx again today and doing daily epsom salt dips for 15 mins. can't believe all three are still alive after 8 days of 100% water changes, epsom salt dips and dosing ndx esha 2000 and aquarium salt. found one dead cory yesterday and another this morning in the grow tank. these were not as swollen/bloated as the three in the tub, and i have not treated the tank at all, at least until i can pinpoint something specific. attached a photo from this morning.

As you seeing more deaths in the main tank it's more than likely a bacterial infection you could contact a vet to get antibiotic medications it would be the quickest route in this case ESHA 2000 only treats mild external bacterial infection it won't have any benefit in this case 

[Ron.h]

nabokovfan87 ihave a couple of shops that i sell to, and trust them but i don't think they can access antibiotics but i will try them. don't know of any cases of dropsy local but would assume affected fish just die. colu i will look into contacting a vet but i'm not aware of any who specialize in fish locally, and most consultation fees are astronomical. maybe a chat with our local pharmacist could serve me better. if i can source some antibiotic meds hopefully someone could help with dosing quantities. will try for kanamycin or minocycline. thanks ron.

[Littlefish]

Really interested in only the black corys being susceptible to whatever is killing them.  Maybe genetically susceptible to this one problem due to lengthy line breading? 

[Ron.h]

littlefish this puzzles me also, and though i feel you could be partly right, the snow white pandas are also heavily line bred, and more recently than the black corys. i have found them to be more sensitive by far than the black corys which are generally very hardy for me. guess it's a mystery that will not be solved.

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/30/2022 at 2:05 PM, Ron.h said:

littlefish this puzzles me also, and though i feel you could be partly right, the snow white pandas are also heavily line bred, and more recently than the black corys. i have found them to be more sensitive by far than the black corys which are generally very hardy for me. guess it's a mystery that will not be solved.

Different species have different stressors. So depending what might be causing that issue, could be an explanation as to why one is having more issues than the other.   Apart from genetics, simply a long term acclimation issue could explain it. Especially if the black corydoras are newer.

Hopefully you're able to get some meds for your fish. 😞

[Ron.h]

On 12/30/2022 at 7:31 PM, Colu said:

As you seeing more deaths in the main tank it's more than likely a bacterial infection you could contact a vet to get antibiotic medications it would be the quickest route in this case ESHA 2000 only treats mild external bacterial infection it won't have any benefit in this case 

 

On 12/29/2022 at 12:53 AM, Odd Duck said:

Praziquantal is a dewormer, which should probably be done, but it is not an antibiotic.  You will almost guaranteed to need both to have any chance of saving fish that are pineconeing.

hi, i think i can get some human prescribed amoxicillin and possibly nitrofurantoin, would these be of any use, and if so could you help with dosing quantities. can't get these until monday at the earliest. fish in tub are still alive but found one more in tank this morning. the recent deaths are not showing any symptoms like the tubbed fish, whereas previously i would notice excess mucus and bloating on individual fish. now all fish look fine until i find a body. thanks for your help.

[Odd Duck]

Nitrofurantoin is contraindicated for corydoras since they are scaleless.  Amoxicillin is not likely to be helpful since very few fish pathogens are Gram positive.  You can try it, but I’m afraid it’s not at all likely to be helpful.  Kanamycin in the water or Minocycline in the food (best) or in the water are your best bets.

Have you had any luck reaching out to local aquarium clubs to see if they have anything on hand or know where to get something?  Have you checked if any local vets see fish?  They might not be super comfortable but they might still agree to try.  They can always email me if that would help.  They can reach out to Greg Lewbart at North Carolina State University or Charlie Innis at New England Aquarium.  Both of these gentlemen are very nice, but will likely want to talk to your local vet so they can figure out what will be legal for the local vet to do for treatment.

I’m not sure who to recommend across the pond but both of those guys are renowned for their fish knowledge and have authored chapters in exotic animal formularies or whole books on exotic animal care.  I can get you their contact info or send it to your local vet (which is honestly your best bet at this point).  It seems unlikely that you’ll be able to get an appropriate antibiotic any other way since you are so limited in what you can order over there.  I would be incredibly frustrated by now and I commend you for hanging in there and continuing to try for your cories.

If you have another pass away, as soon as you find it, put it in a zip type bag with as much air squeezed out as possible and put it in the refrigerator.  Your local vet will likely recommend a necropsy.  They should be able to send the entire fish to a vet university for post-mortem exam for the most cost effective way to find the cause of death and the best treatment.  I know it may not be financially possible, but it’s worth checking into.  If you can save your remaining cories and get them breeding, then you will be able to recoup the costs of testing and treatment.

Reach out to me in PM if you want to get my email to give to your local vet.  Just search for exotic vets and call to see if they will see fish if they don’t list it on their clinic website.

Edited December 31, 2022 by Odd Duck
Typo

[Ron.h]

thank you odd duck, i have a friend who's daughter works with horses and is friendly with a vet and have asked if they might help me. the cories in question are young fish that i have bred myself and i still have the breeding group in another tank that is not affected. in fact if i'd not had this problem the sick fish were at a size to be sold, but obviously i put that on hold. all other tanks with young cories in are fine, it's only the one tank and only the black cories in that tank. i've asked my friends daughter for minocycline, kanamycin or metronidazole if possible and await a response, probably after the new year now. i don't know how the tubbed fish are hanging on, 9 days now with all the stress, but the things you've all suggested must be having an impact and i appreciate it. thanks again and have a great new year. cheers ron.

[Ron.h]

day 14 in the tub and still hanging in there. one seems to be less bloated and one possibly more. just delaying the inevitable i know, but until i can get some meds it's all i can do. no word on meds yet the vet in question is on holiday. still doing epsom salt baths daily, and could do esha ndx again as it's been a week since last time, what do you think? feeding a very small amount of live bbs but don't think it's being eaten. for sick fish they are being very resilient. thanks ron.

[nabokovfan87]

It's likely going to take a few rounds of meds. I would start another one.