black corys dying

[Ron.h]

Looking for help with young black cory deaths. I have a 90litre grow out tank with young schultzi black corys and young snow white panda corys. Parameters are ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 25. Temperature 23c P.H. 6.8. All corys are bred by myself in my fish room. Blacks are 2/3 months old snow panda 3/4 months old. Over the past 4 week i have lost 1 to 2 black corys every three to four days. Not lost one panda as of now. All the blacks look fine until one or two develop the symptoms shown in photo, and over the next couple of days they die. The photo shows the white on the body which appears to be  excess mucus/slime coat,  rather than fungus. The fish are also slightly bloated and eyes appear slightly protruding.  Doesn't seem to be any clamped fins, and still reasonable active although a little lethargic.

Hope someone can give some pointers as to what the problem may be.

Many Thanks

Ron

[nabokovfan87]

Are the fish in QT or are they in the main tank still?

There has been a few reports of something similar in other threads, let me grab it for reference.
 

I would recommend starting with Kanaplex if you have that on hand.  It is very likely a bacterial issue and it sounds like you're dealing with something pretty intense.  Aquarium salt is also a viable option to help out the corydoras.  If you're uncomfortable with dosing salt I can provide my methods as well as some technical documents on it's safety for use with corydoras.

Secondly, whatever the situation is, I would recommend adding an airstone to the tank that these fish are in / were in.

Third, I would also suggest getting some polyguard if you don't have that on hand in case you need it as well.

PH is fine, temp is fine, I don't see any issues with their care compared to my own.

I'm very sorry for your struggles and that you've been losing so many fish.  Hopefully we can get this sorted out quickly!  Also, welcome to the forums.

(cc @Odd Duck @Colu )

Edited December 22, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[nabokovfan87]

Please provide a side profile shot if possible so we can see the white items on the fish in further detail.

[Colu]

If you have a side on picture it could help with a diagnosis 

[Ron.h]

Hi nabokovfan87 and thanks for your response. As i'm in the uk kanaplex is not available, but i am aware of the benefits of salt even for so called "scaleless" fish. The affected cory is in a 2lt quarantine tub with salt dosed at 5gm per litre and has now shed the excess mucus if that is what it was. I've since added two more affected cories and they have responded the same way. The tub has an airstone in but no filter, i'm changing 100% water daily and the room is heated. The grow tank is filtered by an air driven matten, a double sponge filter and also an airstone so plenty of oxygen. I have attached a side on photo and from above showing improvement. The baffling thing about this is only losing two or three fish at a time and not losing a single snow panda, which being leucistic are normally quite sensitive and delicate, unlike the black corys which for me are generally very hardy. Another observation is that all affected fish seem to lose the intense black colour and appear to be reverting back to the original c. schulti colour, probably just fading due to illness. Thanks again and anymore help will be appreciated.

Many Thanks. Ron.

ps thinking of trying epsom salt next to reduce the swelling.

 

 

 

•  

Hi colu, thanks for response, please see above photos.

Cheers Ron

[Colu]

Parasitic infection can cause over product of the slime coat and bloating I think it would be worth while to keep treating salt I would also treat ESHA Gdex active ingredient is praziquantel that is available in the UK that will treat any possible parasitic infection you get sera bactopur direct tables from Amazon or eBay active ingredient is nifurpirinol is a broad spectrum antibiotic treatment just done get it confused with sera bactopur active ingredient is acriflavine and Methylene blue or kanaplex for future use it does take a couple of weeks get here I make sure I always have some on hand you never no when you're might need @Ron.h

Edited December 23, 2022 by Colu

[Comradovich]

Did a little Amazon.uk diving this morning to see if I could help. I would normally suggest Hikari's prazi-pro, but it doesn't look like you can get that.

I did find a link to Fritz Paracleanse: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fritz-Aquatics-ParaCleanse-Treatment-Aquarium/dp/B09F4HV8HH/ref=sr_1_12?keywords=prazipro&qid=1671722697&sr=8-12

The thing about Paracleanse and Prazipro is that they both have praziquantel in concentrations high enough to be effective. Compare that with API's "general cure", which has the drug, but from what I hear on these boards it has it in such low concentrations that it's only really useful as a quarantine tank pre-treatment. If you can find it, Levamisole hydrocloride is also potentially useful, but I don't know any brand-names for that.

[Ron.h]

Hi, i have esha-ndx, main active ingredient levamisole hydrochloride, do you think this would be worth dosing, or should i get esha- gdex.

Thank you

Ron.

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/22/2022 at 7:37 AM, Comradovich said:

If you can find it, Levamisole hydrocloride is also potentially useful, but I don't know any brand-names for that.

Fritz expel p

On 12/22/2022 at 8:09 AM, Ron.h said:

Hi, i have esha-ndx, main active ingredient levamisole hydrochloride, do you think this would be worth dosing, or should i get esha- gdex.

Thank you

Ron.

Do you have esha 2000?

Trying to look up all the MSDS sheets so we can see what is in everything, website doesn't list much.

You're looking for external parasites as well as gram negative bacterial meds.

[nabokovfan87]

Levamisole / esha-ndx would be used for internal worms.

@Colutthis list might be helpful to find some equivalents.

https://www.bsavalibrary.com/content/formulary/backmatter/exotic-petsvendors

Edited December 22, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[Colu]

On 12/22/2022 at 4:09 PM, Ron.h said:

Hi, i have esha-ndx, main active ingredient levamisole hydrochloride, do you think this would be worth dosing, or should i get esha- gdex.

Thank you

Ron.

Yes you can use ESHA ndx it does treat different types of internal parasites to Gdex I would use that as you have it to hand I would treat once a week for three weeks 

[Ron.h]

Nabokovfan87 yes i have esha 2000, composition, ethacridine lactate 6.3mg, copper sulphate 8.0mg, proflavine hemisulphate 1mg in water.

Colu if i use ESHA ndx can i still use the salt with it.

[nabokovfan87]

Yeah, that's one of the only bacterial meds I'm seeing available for you @Ron.h 😞

Botanicals is also another great thing to use as well.  Alder cones or Indian Almond Leaves / Cattapa leaves if you have some.

The corydoras is extremely pale.  Salt+Oxygen (airstone) is a must right now just for the sake of trying to give it some life. Because the corydoras is very, very heavily stressed right now I am not sure what level of salt is appropriate here.  Not enough, it won't have the desired effect, but too much and that might take things the other way.  I generally always dose 1/2 cup (US) per 10G.  I am leaning towards recommending a 1/3 cup per 10G dose just due to the situation here.  I would highly recommend having very, very good oxygenation for this fish.  Not insane flow to the point of the fish not being able to relax / hide as need be, but purely airstone(s) as you need to because of what the salt and meds will do to the viscosity of that water.  If it was a 10-20 Gallon (20-70L) situation I would run 2 of them, 40B (150L+) I would have 3, etc.

In terms of meds....

You would dose esha-ndx on day one, make sure the tank is blacked out for anything with levamisole as it's light sensitive.  You would dose that med, blackout tank for 24 hours. Then on the following day you'd want to siphon the substrate, change water, and then dose in your salt, esha 2000 (and if you had it around, the esha gdex).  Treatment is based on the directions on the package, and if there's any discrepancy or confusion we can review and discuss as need be.  The esha website does specify it is safe to use gdex+2000.



 

Edited December 22, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[Ron.h]

Yes i have and use oak leaves and alder cones. the sick cory is in a 2lt tub at the moment with an airstone set fairly high. also as said earlier the grow out tank has plenty of oxygenation. i think i will treat the tub for now, and the main tank if and when things get any worse. thanks again for all the help, will update hopefully when things improve. Cheers Ron.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Odd Duck]

Sera’s Baktopur may have varying ingredients in different countries.  When I do a search on line I’m finding conflicting information on the nifurpirinol as an ingredient in Baktopur.  I see a list of acriflavin, methylene blue, phenylglycol, and “aqua purificata ad” whatever that is, listed on Sera’s own website.  Either might work for treatment for these cories, but my top choices would be Minocycline (Maracyn-2, Mino Fish, Fish Min) or Metronidazole (Fish-Zole, MetroPlex, Fishbiotic, Aqua-Zole, Zole-Forte are a few brands to look for) for fish bloated like this.  I think it’s fairly unlikely you’ll be able to get Metronidazole for fish in the UK.  I’m not sure on the UK status for Minocycline.

Keep up with your water changes, replace salt as needed with the replacement water, and use the Levamisole precisely as labeled.  This doesn’t look like a surface issue but internal instead, so an orally absorbed antibiotic would be strongly indicated.

[Ron.h]

Odd Duck thank you for your observations and advice.

[Odd Duck]

On 12/22/2022 at 4:05 PM, Ron.h said:

Odd Duck thank you for your observations and advice.

I just hope it helps.  Keep us posted, please.

[Colu]

On 12/22/2022 at 7:00 PM, Colu said:

Yes you can use ESHA ndx it does treat different types of internal parasites to Gdex I would use that as you have it to hand I would treat once a week for three weeks 

Yes you can use salt and ESHA ndx together 

[Colu]

On 12/22/2022 at 9:33 PM, Odd Duck said:

Sera’s Baktopur may have varying ingredients in different countries.  When I do a search on line I’m finding conflicting information on the nifurpirinol as an ingredient in Baktopur.  I see a list of acriflavin, methylene blue, phenylglycol, and “aqua purificata ad” whatever that is, listed on Sera’s own website.  Either might work for treatment for these cories, but my top choices would be Minocycline (Maracyn-2, Mino Fish, Fish Min) or Metronidazole (Fish-Zole, MetroPlex, Fishbiotic, Aqua-Zole, Zole-Forte are a few brands to look for) for fish bloated like this.  I think it’s fairly unlikely you’ll be able to get Metronidazole for fish in the UK.  I’m not sure on the UK status for Minocycline.

Keep up with your water changes, replace salt as needed with the replacement water, and use the Levamisole precisely as labeled.  This doesn’t look like a surface issue but internal instead, so an orally absorbed antibiotic would be strongly indicated.

 

On 12/22/2022 at 10:05 PM, Ron.h said:

Odd Duck thank you for your observations and advice.

Theirs two medication that are similar Sera baktopur direct tables active ingredient is Nifurpirinol and Sera baktopur active ingredient is acriflavine and Methylene blue 

Edited December 23, 2022 by Colu

[Ron.h]

just a quick update. the cory from the original photo died about 6 days ago but i found three more in the tank to try to save. these had one day treatment with esha ndx, and two days of esha 2000 plus salt and this is the second day of no meds, just clean water to give them a break. so five days and still alive and fairly active, all days in a 2lt quarantine tub with 100% changes daily. although alive seems little change in the swelling/bloating. in two days time i can dose esha ndx again and see if that helps. any other advice appreciated. cheers ron.

[nabokovfan87]

On the photo above. the bottom one looks like pineconing.  I don't think I've seen anything like that in a corydoras, but I assume it's something that's possible. 

@Odd Duck @Colu What do you think?  Epsom or regular aquarium salt here? 

I believe regular salt can help with some things but make internal bloating worse sometimes?

 

[MattyM]

On 12/27/2022 at 11:49 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

On the photo above. the bottom one looks like pineconing.

That was my initial observation in the original photo - dropsy? Some of the symptoms do line up with that. 

Maybe no filter and daily 100% water changes might be adding to stress and water quality issues? 

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/27/2022 at 10:19 AM, MattyM said:

Maybe no filter and daily 100% water changes might be adding to stress and water quality issues? 

I believe the fish have a filter. Need to verify. 

[Ron.h]

yes mattym you are correct, no filter in quarantine tub. have to change water daily as only 2lt, no room for filter. main grow tank is well filtered nabokovfan87. these fish were pulled from main tank in this condition five days ago. have gotten no better or worse since treating in tub.

[Ron.h]

sorry my mistake, it's a hospital tub not quarantine.