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Crossbreeding Corydoras?

Theplatymaster

By Theplatymaster,
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TheSwissAquarist Veteran

TheSwissAquarist

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On 11/28/2022 at 8:25 PM, Cinnebuns said:

Any cory in the same family group will breed together. Unfortunately that ends up meaning most of the popular ones in the hobby can. The family lists can be found on planetcatfish.com

Here is the specific family you are looking for:

https://www.planetcatfish.com/common/family.php?family_id=1

Aeneus and Sterbai seem to be the most popular…a cross between them would also be quite fun to see!

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Theplatymaster Experienced

Theplatymaster

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On 11/29/2022 at 2:24 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

There was also a talk on the members side, I believe september? maybe October, but Cory mentioned it on the last live stream as a major talking point of that presentation!

I have watched the members talk on corydoras. Rob doesn't mention anything about crossbreeding them. He just says start with one species. 

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CorydorasEthan Mentor

CorydorasEthan

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Albino cories will crossbreed with them since they are also Corydoras aeneus. Same goes for some of the other varieties of C. aeneus (though some of them may actually be C. venezuelanus according to recent studies). I've kept C. aeneus with C. paleatus, C. trilineatus, C. pygmaeus, C. habrosus, and Brochis splendens, and in my experience they haven't shown any crossbreeding behavior with any of these species.

I hope this helps!

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Theplatymaster Experienced

Theplatymaster

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On 11/29/2022 at 9:15 AM, CorydorasEthan said:

Albino cories will crossbreed with them since they are also Corydoras aeneus. Same goes for some of the other varieties of C. aeneus (though some of them may actually be C. venezuelanus according to recent studies). I've kept C. aeneus with C. paleatus, C. trilineatus, C. pygmaeus, C. habrosus, and Brochis splendens, and in my experience they haven't shown any crossbreeding behavior with any of these species.

I hope this helps!

thanks!

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nabokovfan87 Grand Master

nabokovfan87

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On 11/29/2022 at 11:07 AM, Theplatymaster said:

im confused what you mean?  

I don't get to see the member videos. I was mentioning it because Cory had mentioned it on a live when the question came up. I'm just saying thank you, I appreciate sharing the details! Good information to have that it is or isn't useful for the topic.

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Cinnebuns Grand Master

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On 11/29/2022 at 12:11 AM, TheSwissAquarist said:

Aeneus and Sterbai seem to be the most popular…a cross between them would also be quite fun to see!

I never advise crossing cories. They tend to be very unhealthy. Some other families of fish are more ethical to do but cories not as much. 

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Odd Duck Grand Master

Odd Duck

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On 11/29/2022 at 12:11 AM, TheSwissAquarist said:

Aeneus and Sterbai seem to be the most popular…a cross between them would also be quite fun to see!

It would not be very likely since they are from different clades.  It’s not considered good ethics to deliberately hybridize cories.   They can be difficult to ID some species, but when you hybridize it makes it even more difficult to ID them.  Plus if you sell them or give them away, is the next person going to be ethical about telling whomever they sell them to that they’re a hybrid?  How about the next person down the line?  Next thing you know all the cory species are jumbled together and mixed species with no more pure species left.

‘There is so much variety in cories that you should be able to find whatever “look” you want without making a hybrid.

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CorydorasEthan Mentor

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The only species that would potentially breed with C. aeneus are C. rabauti, C. venezuelanus, C. eques, C. schultzei, and C. melanotaenia, as they are all from the same lineage (lineage 7). Your other commonly kept species of Corydoras are all from lineage 9 (ex: C. habrosus, C. panda, C. trilineatus, and C. sterbai), with a few exceptions like C. paleatus (lineage 6), and C. pygmaeus and C. hastatus (lineage 4).

https://www.corydorasworld.com/knowledgebase/Corydoradinae-Lineages.

I hope this helps!

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Theplatymaster Experienced

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On 11/30/2022 at 9:31 AM, CorydorasEthan said:

The only species that would potentially breed with C. aeneus are C. rabauti, C. venezuelanus, C. eques, C. schultzei, and C. melanotaenia, as they are all from the same lineage (lineage 7). Your other commonly kept species of Corydoras are all from lineage 9 (ex: C. habrosus, C. panda, C. trilineatus, and C. sterbai), with a few exceptions like C. paleatus (lineage 6), and C. pygmaeus and C. hastatus (lineage 4).

https://www.corydorasworld.com/knowledgebase/Corydoradinae-Lineages.

I hope this helps!

that is useful, thanks! I was particularly eyeing corydora adolphi and corydora trilineatetus. I would get both of them with my aeneus, but one of them would be fun!

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Cinnebuns Grand Master

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On 11/30/2022 at 8:31 AM, CorydorasEthan said:

The only species that would potentially breed with C. aeneus are C. rabauti, C. venezuelanus, C. eques, C. schultzei, and C. melanotaenia, as they are all from the same lineage (lineage 7). Your other commonly kept species of Corydoras are all from lineage 9 (ex: C. habrosus, C. panda, C. trilineatus, and C. sterbai), with a few exceptions like C. paleatus (lineage 6), and C. pygmaeus and C. hastatus (lineage 4).

https://www.corydorasworld.com/knowledgebase/Corydoradinae-Lineages.

I hope this helps!

I thought it was all species within the same family? Is that not true?  I thought that was true across the board for all species not just cories even. Like pseudomugil is a family that can all cross for example. 

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CorydorasEthan Mentor

CorydorasEthan

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On 11/30/2022 at 3:46 PM, Cinnebuns said:

I thought it was all species within the same family? Is that not true?  I thought that was true across the board for all species not just cories even. Like pseudomugil is a family that can all cross for example. 

Pseudomogil is a single genus, which is why some species might be able to crossbreed with one another. Species from a related genus in the subfamily Pseudomogilinae, Kiunga for example, do not hybridize with Pseudomugil species.

Yes, Corydoras is the only genus in the subfamily Corydorinae currently. However, scientific studies over the group have sorted them into different lineages, which are more or less comparable to different genre (scientists are even considering renaming some lineages into new genre, like lineage 4 would become the genus Microcorydoras). Therefore, species from different lineages are unlikely to hybridize with other lineages. However, those that do share the same lineage have a higher chance of potential hybridization, so I would avoid housing them in the same tank as one another (if you do house them together monitor them closely to ensure no crossbreeding).

Edited by CorydorasEthan
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Cinnebuns Grand Master

Cinnebuns

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On 11/30/2022 at 7:46 PM, CorydorasEthan said:

Pseudomogil is a single genus, which is why some species might be able to crossbreed with one another. Species from a related genus in the subfamily Pseudomogilinae, Kiunga for example, do not hybridize with Pseudomugil species.

Yes, Corydoras is the only genus in the subfamily Corydorinae currently. However, scientific studies over the group have sorted them into different lineages, which are more or less comparable to different genre (scientists are even considering renaming some lineages into new genre, like lineage 4 would become the genus Microcorydoras). Therefore, species from different lineages are unlikely to hybridize with other lineages. However, those that do share the same lineage have a higher chance of potential hybridization, so I would avoid housing them in the same tank as one another (if you do house them together monitor them closely to ensure no crossbreeding).

Oh I think I got it but I wanna make sure. 

Lineage is a further breakdown of genus before you get to species not in the typical breakdown of clarification of animals. Possibly more or less unique to some genus more than others is my assumption. So it sounds like all cories POTENTIALLY can cross but isn't likely unless they are in the same lineage.

Did I get it right?

On 11/30/2022 at 9:24 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

I encourage giant hordes of species only tanks of corydoras! Especially when you get to.... 30+ or around there they just really behave really well and have such interesting behaviors. 20-30+ of the same corydoras, one species in a tank, very fun tank.

You have no idea how much I want to do this. I got a 15 long sitting around that I'm tempted to fill with simils right now. 

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nabokovfan87 Grand Master

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On 11/30/2022 at 7:40 PM, Cinnebuns said:

You have no idea how much I want to do this. I got a 15 long sitting around that I'm tempted to fill with simils right now. 

40B / 75G with a ton of them is the best.  I want to get a 60G lowboy, 12" tall and just have a 100 of them. Something real fun.  Get a big pond style setup for corydoras. ONE DAY!

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Cinnebuns Grand Master

Cinnebuns

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On 11/30/2022 at 9:43 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

40B / 75G with a ton of them is the best.  I want to get a 60G lowboy, 12" tall and just have a 100 of them. Something real fun.  Get a big pond style setup for corydoras. ONE DAY!

I don't have the space for that large of a tank. I was kinda eyeing 12 bookshelf tanks. Suuuuuuuper long. Might even be the same length as a 75 idk haha. But no funds for a specialized size like that. 15 long is decent length for the gallons. 

Oh to clarify, I live in an apartment and they get nervous about large tanks. I'm amazed th let me have as many as I do tho tbh lol

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CorydorasEthan Mentor

CorydorasEthan

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On 11/30/2022 at 9:40 PM, Cinnebuns said:

Oh I think I got it but I wanna make sure. 

Lineage is a further breakdown of genus before you get to species not in the typical breakdown of clarification of animals. Possibly more or less unique to some genus more than others is my assumption. So it sounds like all cories POTENTIALLY can cross but isn't likely unless they are in the same lineage.

Did I get it right?

Yeah I think so. Certain species within a given lineage are more closely related to each other than with other lineages (measured by their DNA). They also share certain physical features that might set them apart from the other groups. For example, the cories in lineage 5 (C. elegans, C. napoensis, C. nanus, etc.) all have a similar coloration pattern, mouths situated slightly farther up on their heads, and tend to swim above the substrate rather than directly on it as most cories do.

So yeah I would think that it would very unlikely for species of different lineages to cross.

Here is a chart showing the relation between the different lineages. 

Phylogenetic-relationships-of-Corydoradinae-including-co-mimics-The-pie-chart-shows.png.34e7c732514e3794f7d8b77df18ec80f.png

Here's the link to the page: https://corydoras.zone/fish/corys/corydoradinae-corydoras-lineages/

On 11/30/2022 at 9:40 PM, Cinnebuns said:

You have no idea how much I want to do this. I got a 15 long sitting around that I'm tempted to fill with simils right now.

That would be a fun tank! I just bought my LFS's supply of C. hastatus (only 10 fish) during their sale. They are quite fun.

20221126_211756.jpg.b92acca642df84d54c6fe9e112616164.jpg

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