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Angelfish identification?


GisheryGoodness
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Sorry if this goes in a different category I wasn't quite sure. I've looked at all the ways to tell a male and female angelfish apart and I'm still unsure. Do they have to be older to be sure, I can't see the breeding tube so I'm guessing too young and the other qualifiers like forehead bump and body size I'm just not sure. I've had them over a month and they are now in their permanent tank so I want to give them a name if possible. Best pics I could get I can try again later though if needed. 

20221112_122413.jpg

20221112_122429.jpg

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Just to clarify: you’re trying to _sex_ these angels for breeding, not _identify_ their color form, correct?

They appear to be from a line of Koi Angels. Fry may look totally different from adults though, depending on what the earlier source line passes down.

Angels are very difficult to sex unless they’ve spawned before. Maybe the top photo is a female / bottom photo male?? I’d guess from the same brood.

I’d buy 7 and put them in a 55 gal, lots of structures to spawn on. Feed high quality foods. Change that water aplenty. A pair should emerge that way.

Here is a deep thread going back a few years. Lots of videos, etc.

 

Edited by Fish Folk
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On 11/12/2022 at 6:02 PM, Fish Folk said:

Just to clarify: you’re trying to _sex_ these angels for breeding, not _identify_ their color form, correct?

They appear to be from a line of Koi Angels. Fry may look totally different from adults though, depending on what the earlier source line passes down.

Angels are very difficult to sex unless they’ve spawned before. Maybe the top photo is a female / bottom photo male?? I’d guess from the same brood.

I’d buy 7 and put them in a 55 gal, lots of structures to spawn on. Feed high quality foods. Change that water aplenty. A pair should emerge that way.

Sorry wasn't very clear on that I just wanted to know so I could give a name. It's actually just one angelfish, my centerpiece for the 55, I was advised to just get one because they can get aggressive if it's not a pair and as you said it hard to tell if they're male/female as juvenile. 

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My guess is that it is more likely a male than female from the shape of the head but that isn't 100%; also I *think* the red around the kills is an indication it has blushing gene but beyond that i've not paid too much attention to the different colour combinations. Btw males typically tend to be more docile than females and will get a *lot* larger than females. They  are capable of eating small tetras like cardinals when fully grown.

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On 11/12/2022 at 7:53 PM, GisheryGoodness said:

Sorry wasn't very clear on that I just wanted to know so I could give a name. It's actually just one angelfish, my centerpiece for the 55, I was advised to just get one because they can get aggressive if it's not a pair and as you said it hard to tell if they're male/female as juvenile. 

Hahaha!!! 😂 (obviously I’m not good if the same fish looks like a male in one photo, and female in another)

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On 11/12/2022 at 7:13 PM, Fish Folk said:

Hahaha!!! 😂 (obviously I’m not good if the same fish looks like a male in one photo, and female in another)

Lol, well I feel better knowing someone else thinks so too. Cause that's what I was thinking too, looks like both depending on how I see it. 

 

On 11/12/2022 at 7:10 PM, anewbie said:

My guess is that it is more likely a male than female from the shape of the head but that isn't 100%; also I *think* the red around the kills is an indication it has blushing gene but beyond that i've not paid too much attention to the different colour combinations. Btw males typically tend to be more docile than females and will get a *lot* larger than females. They  are capable of eating small tetras like cardinals when fully grown.

Thank you. That's good to know, the smallest fishy friends are some mollies they should be alright? I will look into the blushing gene, sounds interesting. 

On 11/12/2022 at 7:13 PM, Fish Folk said:

Hahaha!!! 😂 (obviously I’m not good if the same fish looks like a male in one photo, and female in another)

Lol, well I feel better knowing someone else thinks so too. Cause that's what I was thinking too, looks like both depending on how I see it. 

 

On 11/12/2022 at 7:10 PM, anewbie said:

My guess is that it is more likely a male than female from the shape of the head but that isn't 100%; also I *think* the red around the kills is an indication it has blushing gene but beyond that i've not paid too much attention to the different colour combinations. Btw males typically tend to be more docile than females and will get a *lot* larger than females. They  are capable of eating small tetras like cardinals when fully grown.

Thank you. That's good to know, the smallest fishy friends are some mollies they should be alright? I will look into the blushing gene, sounds interesting. 

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Koi angels are a combination of blushing, gold, and marble genetics, per the guy I got mine from.  He is also quite firm that you can’t tell gender with true certainty until you see a breeding tube and he’s been breeding angels for decades.  If they get a very prominent nuchal hump, depending on the variety, you can take it as a hint that it’s likely a male, but even then it isn’t definitive.  There are varieties and strains that have very prominent nuchal humps in both males and females, but kois being gold, blushing, and marble it is a bit more likely to be male if it develops a prominent nuchal hump.  I would say that one is way too young to tell with even the slightest degree of certainty.

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On 11/12/2022 at 2:12 PM, GisheryGoodness said:

Sorry if this goes in a different category I wasn't quite sure. I've looked at all the ways to tell a male and female angelfish apart and I'm still unsure. Do they have to be older to be sure, I can't see the breeding tube so I'm guessing too young and the other qualifiers like forehead bump and body size I'm just not sure. I've had them over a month and they are now in their permanent tank so I want to give them a name if possible. Best pics I could get I can try again later though if needed. 

20221112_122413.jpg

20221112_122429.jpg

You can never really tell if an angelfish is a male or female until you get a pair and see a breeding tube. Angelfish can look very similar even when they are the opposite genders. For example my angelfish pair are very similar in their features, but the size difference shows. Thats why the golden rule with angels is to get 6 and let them naturally pair off like I did, and if you get a pair or 2,(luckily I got 3 pairs but gave 2 away and kept 1) thats when you can really tell a male or female angelfish.

 

 

IMG_4073.jpg.adfde979cb25e40e5ec4da3dc88d7be4.jpg

Edited by DiscusLover
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On 11/12/2022 at 11:15 PM, Odd Duck said:

Koi angels are a combination of blushing, gold, and marble genetics, per the guy I got mine from.  He is also quite firm that you can’t tell gender with true certainty until you see a breeding tube and he’s been breeding angels for decades.  If they get a very prominent nuchal hump, depending on the variety, you can take it as a hint that it’s likely a male, but even then it isn’t definitive.  There are varieties and strains that have very prominent nuchal humps in both males and females, but kois being gold, blushing, and marble it is a bit more likely to be male if it develops a prominent nuchal hump.  I would say that one is way too young to tell with even the slightest degree of certainty.

I'm not sure i agree with this in all cases; while as i noted this fish might still be a female; i have noticed with the angels I have bred there is a broad trend that distinguish males from females and therefore with the ones i have bred my 'guess' rate is quite high. Without knowing the parents genetics i find my guess rate around 70% but there are always cases where females is rather large or has a large hump.

 

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