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Black Beard Algae - I'm at a loss

EVoyager31

By EVoyager31,
in Plants, Algae, and Fertilizers

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EVoyager31 Rising Star

EVoyager31

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I have THICK black beard algae across multiple tanks and on my main planted tank especially. I've tried multiple methods to remove it and am honestly at a loss. I've done the chemicals, pulling plants out and trying the peroxide method, purchased fish that supposedly eat black beard algae (Siamese algae eaters & Florida flagfish..don't worry, I had space for them), etc. I've read several things saying it could be due to a lack of C02.. but I am injecting C02 already and have had excellent plant growth. I have a couple other types of algae in there right now.. but my main focus is the black beard algae. 

 

At this point I am of a mind to rip everything out of the tank, trim off all affected areas of plants, and take a brillo pad to some of the equipment that is affected (intake tube, outtake, etc.). Hard reset on the aquascape (which honestly hurts me a little but if that's what it takes).

 

I suppose my question is: Will pulling everything out solve the issue or is there another way I haven't tried? I haven't checked in my canister filters for it yet (its always a huge water mess and I will wait for larger maintenance day), but I'm sure it lives there too. I'd be hesitant to pull out all my cycled media though.... thoughts?

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EVoyager31 Rising Star

EVoyager31

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On 11/4/2022 at 10:52 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

@nabokovfan87 has been struggling with the same thing or similar, possibly staghorn.  Maybe he can point you in the right direction or tell you what didn't work or seems to work.

https://www.aquariumcoop.com/pages/algae-identification-guide-1

 

Hm, I haven't tried the easy carbon. I suppose Ill give that a go before I tear my tank down. Thanks!

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TheSwissAquarist Veteran

TheSwissAquarist

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On 11/4/2022 at 3:46 PM, EVoyager31 said:

I have THICK black beard algae across multiple tanks and on my main planted tank especially. I've tried multiple methods to remove it and am honestly at a loss. I've done the chemicals, pulling plants out and trying the peroxide method, purchased fish that supposedly eat black beard algae (Siamese algae eaters & Florida flagfish..don't worry, I had space for them), etc. I've read several things saying it could be due to a lack of C02.. but I am injecting C02 already and have had excellent plant growth. I have a couple other types of algae in there right now.. but my main focus is the black beard algae. 

 

At this point I am of a mind to rip everything out of the tank, trim off all affected areas of plants, and take a brillo pad to some of the equipment that is affected (intake tube, outtake, etc.). Hard reset on the aquascape (which honestly hurts me a little but if that's what it takes).

 

I suppose my question is: Will pulling everything out solve the issue or is there another way I haven't tried? I haven't checked in my canister filters for it yet (its always a huge water mess and I will wait for larger maintenance day), but I'm sure it lives there too. I'd be hesitant to pull out all my cycled media though.... thoughts?

IMG_5323.jpg

IMG_5320.jpg

IMG_5324.jpg

I'm told that reticulated SAEs eat that nasty stuff (Crossocheilus Reticulatus), mine work wonders!

How big is the tank??

Edited by TheSwissAquarist
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EVoyager31 Rising Star

EVoyager31

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On 11/4/2022 at 11:20 AM, TheSwissAquarist said:

I'm told that reticulated SAEs eat that nasty stuff (Crossocheilus Reticulatus), mine work wonders!

How big is the tank??

I have it in each of my tanks, but my 75G planted is the main problem. I have SAEs in there but I haven't noticed much of a difference since I got them about a month ago.

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SC Fish Rising Star

SC Fish

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On 11/4/2022 at 2:46 PM, EVoyager31 said:

I have THICK black beard algae across multiple tanks and on my main planted tank especially. I've tried multiple methods to remove it and am honestly at a loss. I've done the chemicals, pulling plants out and trying the peroxide method, purchased fish that supposedly eat black beard algae (Siamese algae eaters & Florida flagfish..don't worry, I had space for them), etc. I've read several things saying it could be due to a lack of C02.. but I am injecting C02 already and have had excellent plant growth. I have a couple other types of algae in there right now.. but my main focus is the black beard algae. 

 

At this point I am of a mind to rip everything out of the tank, trim off all affected areas of plants, and take a brillo pad to some of the equipment that is affected (intake tube, outtake, etc.). Hard reset on the aquascape (which honestly hurts me a little but if that's what it takes).

 

I suppose my question is: Will pulling everything out solve the issue or is there another way I haven't tried? I haven't checked in my canister filters for it yet (its always a huge water mess and I will wait for larger maintenance day), but I'm sure it lives there too. I'd be hesitant to pull out all my cycled media though.... thoughts?

IMG_5323.jpg

IMG_5320.jpg

IMG_5324.jpg

may i recommend floating plants?? 

my 10 gall had quite a hard hit of algae , i added some floaters and now its more or less completely gone! it soaks up all left over nutrients and leaves nothing for algea to consume and use to grow, plus it limits light and the algae wont survive. but this is green hair i had ... not sure if it will work in your case

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TheSwissAquarist Veteran

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On 11/4/2022 at 4:31 PM, SC Fish said:

may i recommend floating plants?? 

my 10 gall had quite a hard hit of algae , i added some floaters and now its more or less completely gone! it soaks up all left over nutrients and leaves nothing for algea to consume and use to grow, plus it limits light and the algae wont survive. but this is green hair i had ... not sure if it will work in your case

Hence the picture in your signature 😉, always wondered about that!

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OceanTruth Mentor

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I know you said you used chemicals, but was one of them Seachem Excel or some other kind of “CO2 liquid booster.” I had a BBA outbreak one time and I dosed the recommended amount for the tank directly on the BBA using a syringe or pipette. After about a week of doing that daily it started turning pale and died off. It never returned as well, luckily.

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nabokovfan87 Grand Master

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On 11/4/2022 at 8:27 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Huh.  Interesting!  @nabokovfan87 maybe something new to try?

SAE's are pretty awesome.  I really miss mine.  They literally acted like beached whales. I think I had Grace the shark (female) and 3 female SAEs and then one male SAE.  In the 75 there were some "moods" and some aggression when the SAEs would irritate the RTBS, but yeah.... I had BBA in that tank, just wasn't as prevalent.  Locally, those ones are hard to find, and I recommend you absolutely MUST have a plan for when they get big.  Those fish jump, they like to swim and basque and just hang out.  When lights or noises spook a fish, SAEs are known to be the ones to hit the floor.  It could be another fish or others, and so you really need a 4' tank, preferably something like a 40b or 75G at a minimum.  The necessity being, you absolutely have to have a plan if you get a few of them and you need to re-home one or two of them.  It's the same rules as shrimp, if you don't feed them heavily they will graze.  RTBS, Rainbow sharks, SAEs, Flying fox, those fish all have a similar mouth structure and you can see that in similar species.  It's good to know about their background because all of those fish will not tolerate, typically, having others of the same "family" in the tank.  Especially if they are similar in coloration.

This family of fish specifically.  Similar in origin to carp / koi.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyprinidae

Quote

Numerous cyprinids have become important in the aquarium and fishpond hobbies, most famously the goldfish, which was bred in China from the Prussian carp (Carassius (auratus) gibelio). First imported into Europe around 1728, it was much fancied by Chinese nobility as early as 1150 AD and after it arrived there in 1502, also in Japan. In the latter country, from the 18th century onwards, the common carp was bred into the ornamental variety known as koi – or more accurately nishikigoi (錦鯉), as koi (鯉) simply means "common carp" in Japanese.

Other popular aquarium cyprinids include danionins, rasborines, and true barbs.[20] Larger species are bred by the thousands in outdoor ponds, particularly in Southeast Asia, and trade in these aquarium fishes is of considerable commercial importance. The small rasborines and danionines are perhaps only rivalled by characids and poecilid livebearers in their popularity for community aquaria.[citation needed]

One particular species of these small and undemanding danionines is the zebrafish (Danio rerio). It has become the standard model species for studying developmental genetics of vertebrates, in particular fish.[21]

On 11/4/2022 at 7:52 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

@nabokovfan87 has been struggling with the same thing or similar, possibly staghorn.  Maybe he can point you in the right direction or tell you what didn't work or seems to work.

I appreciate the tag, let's dive in!

On 11/4/2022 at 7:46 AM, EVoyager31 said:

I have THICK black beard algae across multiple tanks and on my main planted tank especially. I've tried multiple methods to remove it and am honestly at a loss. I've done the chemicals, pulling plants out and trying the peroxide method, purchased fish that supposedly eat black beard algae (Siamese algae eaters & Florida flagfish..don't worry, I had space for them), etc. I've read several things saying it could be due to a lack of C02.. but I am injecting C02 already and have had excellent plant growth. I have a couple other types of algae in there right now.. but my main focus is the black beard algae. 

There are a few reasons for this stuff. One of the most common is going to be your standard level of nitrates in combination with other factors. Specifically Light power (and time) and CO2 stability.  Another very common reason for this stuff is flow issues and circulation issues.  As you can see..... we need to take a step back and break everything down and then plan on things going forward.  There are "simple" fixes, but I would highly encourage you to head to my experiments thread as well as my journal for my photos and logs of trying to do exactly what you're doing without completely trashing everything apart from the fish.  (and yeah, I'm at the point where removing the filter and all equipment that has ever touched the tank and the tank itself all potentially might get filled with bleach to eradicate this stuff)

First, please test your water for everything you can and report back those numbers.  Please also run an off-gas test on your tap water so we can get an idea of the parameters. (take a sample from the tap and aerate that sample for 24 hours with an airstone and then test everything you can)

Second, I need to see the tank, the setup, and all of your equipment layout.  I need to understand your lighting schedule (and settings for that schedule) as well as anything to do with pumps, dosing, circulation, substrate, stocking, etc.  Is this a tank with any sensitive issues like shrimp and snails?  Have you ever dosed this tank with salt before?

Third, what is your specific maintenance schedule for this tank?  How much volume of water do you change when you do maintenance?  Are you getting into the substrate and trying to get rid of as much waste as possible or is that sitting in the tank for the plants?
 

On 11/4/2022 at 7:46 AM, EVoyager31 said:

At this point I am of a mind to rip everything out of the tank, trim off all affected areas of plants, and take a brillo pad to some of the equipment that is affected (intake tube, outtake, etc.). Hard reset on the aquascape (which honestly hurts me a little but if that's what it takes).

I am of two minds of this, but I can tell you from experience, when you see the algae on the plastics and glass, remove it as often and quickly as possible. This means it's floating in the water, which absolutely leads to issues.  Scuffing the surface of plastics means that you can create microscratches and that very likely helps the algae to get onto the surfaces.  But..... I have had this stuff grow on literally everything, and it doesn't care.... if it wants to grow, it will.  This is part of the "red algae" family and it absolutely sucks to fight, especially when it's this bad.

Manual removal, scraping, scrubbing, etc. is one of the best ways and only ways to get ahead of this stuff. You need to keep pushing yourself to fight it and following those efforts do a big siphon and remove as much as you can from the tank with a big volume of water change.
 

On 11/4/2022 at 7:46 AM, EVoyager31 said:

I suppose my question is: Will pulling everything out solve the issue or is there another way I haven't tried? I haven't checked in my canister filters for it yet (its always a huge water mess and I will wait for larger maintenance day), but I'm sure it lives there too. I'd be hesitant to pull out all my cycled media though.... thoughts?

Please make sure you verify all equipment is functioning, especially the pumps and the impellers aren't getting coated with this stuff.  It breaks off from surfaces, coats the inside and outside of everything and grows like nothing else.  Keeping the media clean gives your tank the ability to fight off the ammonia and other issues.  Removing that stuff from the water removes decaying matter which in turn helps with phosphate levels and generally helps you to fight algae.  If you don't have one, try to track down a phosphate test kit and use that weekly (if possible) to go ahead and track how much organics are causing issues for you.

Pulling everything, cleaning it as best you can, cleaning out every single dead leaf and dead plants will help, but you need to fix the issue that is causing it to thrive.  You will get there and I have had plants fight through this stuff and keep growing, but it isn't easy.  Let's take a step back, go through everything, and formulate a method to get through this stuff.

While this isn't the exact situation, it's similar enough and from the same family of algae to be helpful.  This is essentially the goal.... to get your tank to a point where you can treat it in this fashion.
 

 

Edited by nabokovfan87
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EVoyager31 Rising Star

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On 11/4/2022 at 11:38 AM, OceanTruth said:

I know you said you used chemicals, but was one of them Seachem Excel or some other kind of “CO2 liquid booster.” I had a BBA outbreak one time and I dosed the recommended amount for the tank directly on the BBA using a syringe or pipette. After about a week of doing that daily it started turning pale and died off. It never returned as well, luckily.

I hadn’t originally because I didn’t think it would work as well because I am already injecting C02?

I am impatient and I just got done giving the tank a thorough clean and rid myself of a few diseased plants and trimmed the crap out of others. I did order some Easy Carbon from ACOP, so I plan on treating the tank with that as well when it arrives.

I didn’t have many plant losses, as I was able to trim the bulk of it off and with my record they will grow back in no time! Only part that hurt me is I got rid of A LOT of S. Repens.. they were almost all black all the way down to the root and I was sick of the look of them even before the algae came so 🤷‍♀️. I am going to research preventative maintenance so this doesn’t happen (at least as bad) again! 

On 11/4/2022 at 2:56 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

SAE's are pretty awesome.  I really miss mine.  They literally acted like beached whales. I think I had Grace the shark (female) and 3 female SAEs and then one male SAE.  In the 75 there were some "moods" and some aggression when the SAEs would irritate the RTBS, but yeah.... I had BBA in that tank, just wasn't as prevalent.  Locally, those ones are hard to find, and I recommend you absolutely MUST have a plan for when they get big.  Those fish jump, they like to swim and basque and just hang out.  When lights or noises spook a fish, SAEs are known to be the ones to hit the floor.  It could be another fish or others, and so you really need a 4' tank, preferably something like a 40b or 75G at a minimum.  The necessity being, you absolutely have to have a plan if you get a few of them and you need to re-home one or two of them.  It's the same rules as shrimp, if you don't feed them heavily they will graze.  RTBS, Rainbow sharks, SAEs, Flying fox, those fish all have a similar mouth structure and you can see that in similar species.  It's good to know about their background because all of those fish will not tolerate, typically, having others of the same "family" in the tank.  Especially if they are similar in coloration.

This family of fish specifically.  Similar in origin to carp / koi.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyprinidae

I appreciate the tag, let's dive in!

There are a few reasons for this stuff. One of the most common is going to be your standard level of nitrates in combination with other factors. Specifically Light power (and time) and CO2 stability.  Another very common reason for this stuff is flow issues and circulation issues.  As you can see..... we need to take a step back and break everything down and then plan on things going forward.  There are "simple" fixes, but I would highly encourage you to head to my experiments thread as well as my journal for my photos and logs of trying to do exactly what you're doing without completely trashing everything apart from the fish.  (and yeah, I'm at the point where removing the filter and all equipment that has ever touched the tank and the tank itself all potentially might get filled with bleach to eradicate this stuff)

First, please test your water for everything you can and report back those numbers.  Please also run an off-gas test on your tap water so we can get an idea of the parameters. (take a sample from the tap and aerate that sample for 24 hours with an airstone and then test everything you can)

Second, I need to see the tank, the setup, and all of your equipment layout.  I need to understand your lighting schedule (and settings for that schedule) as well as anything to do with pumps, dosing, circulation, substrate, stocking, etc.  Is this a tank with any sensitive issues like shrimp and snails?  Have you ever dosed this tank with salt before?

Third, what is your specific maintenance schedule for this tank?  How much volume of water do you change when you do maintenance?  Are you getting into the substrate and trying to get rid of as much waste as possible or is that sitting in the tank for the plants?
 

I am of two minds of this, but I can tell you from experience, when you see the algae on the plastics and glass, remove it as often and quickly as possible. This means it's floating in the water, which absolutely leads to issues.  Scuffing the surface of plastics means that you can create microscratches and that very likely helps the algae to get onto the surfaces.  But..... I have had this stuff grow on literally everything, and it doesn't care.... if it wants to grow, it will.  This is part of the "red algae" family and it absolutely sucks to fight, especially when it's this bad.

Manual removal, scraping, scrubbing, etc. is one of the best ways and only ways to get ahead of this stuff. You need to keep pushing yourself to fight it and following those efforts do a big siphon and remove as much as you can from the tank with a big volume of water change.
 

Please make sure you verify all equipment is functioning, especially the pumps and the impellers aren't getting coated with this stuff.  It breaks off from surfaces, coats the inside and outside of everything and grows like nothing else.  Keeping the media clean gives your tank the ability to fight off the ammonia and other issues.  Removing that stuff from the water removes decaying matter which in turn helps with phosphate levels and generally helps you to fight algae.  If you don't have one, try to track down a phosphate test kit and use that weekly (if possible) to go ahead and track how much organics are causing issues for you.

Pulling everything, cleaning it as best you can, cleaning out every single dead leaf and dead plants will help, but you need to fix the issue that is causing it to thrive.  You will get there and I have had plants fight through this stuff and keep growing, but it isn't easy.  Let's take a step back, go through everything, and formulate a method to get through this stuff.

While this isn't the exact situation, it's similar enough and from the same family of algae to be helpful.  This is essentially the goal.... to get your tank to a point where you can treat it in this fashion.
 

 

I just got done doing exactly this! It took a few hours but we made it. Hoping all will be well soon! Thanks for your advice!

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Patrick_G Grand Master

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If it’s as bad as it looks then Glutaraldehyde (Easy Carbon, Excel) is a good place to start. I try and use as little as possible, but you might have to use the full dose indicated on the label. 
 

 

I’d also try this method for affected plants, especially epiphytes: 

 

Edited by Patrick_G
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EVoyager31 Rising Star

EVoyager31

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On 11/15/2022 at 3:56 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

Can you tell me, or better yet, show the surface agitation of the tank?

I went back a fourth on it from different things I read saying “yes” agitation to “no” agitation.. seems like it is still a hot topic of debate. I originally angled my spray bar forward so it would agitate surface but was not seeing much growth on my plants so I angled to hit the back of the tank for less agitation and saw much more plant growth over time.

 

I would take a photo or video, but since making this post I have altered my tank and C02 is off. I may move to a low tech tank now that I have juvie discus. 

Edited by EVoyager31
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Mmiller2001 Grand Master

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On 11/15/2022 at 1:59 PM, EVoyager31 said:

I went back a fourth on it from different things I read saying “yes” agitation to “no” agitation.. seems like it is still a hot topic of debate. I originally angled my spray bar forward so it would agitate surface but was not seeing much growth on my plants so I angled to hit the back of the tank for less agitation and saw much more plant growth over time.

There's no debate, you want excellent agitation. You want to degass co2 effectively and inject effectively. I'll drop an article that will explain why you are having CO2 problems. Blackbeard algae has multiple triggers but I think the main problem is your CO2 instability.

Also, using that CO2 chart doesn't account for other sources of acid in your tank. Nitrification causes acidification. NO3 is a weak acid and you must account for this acidification while using the chart. So based on the information you provided, I'm betting you want to see a pH of 6.1 to 6.0.. This accounts for the other sources of acidification in the aquarium. The ideal way to measure CO2 in the tank is to measure PH drop from a degassed sample to a fully gassed sample. The degassed sample is your baseline pH, and the gassed sample is the pH to subtract from the baseline. You are looking for a 1.5 to 1 pH drop from your baseline pH. I found that a 1.2 pH drop is the 30 PPM that I'm looking for. If I go higher than 1.2 then I start to see my fish stressing.

Pay attention to the graphs and what's happening.

https://www.2hraquarist.com/blogs/choosing-co2-why/how-to-push-the-limits-of-co2-safely

I'll also encourage you to not use Glut, that stuff causes other problems besides getting rid of BBA. But if your tank is unindated with BBA, it might make sense to use it. Hydrogen peroxide is way more effective and way safer. 

This will sound counterintuitive but I'd also encourage you to stop doing gravel vacuuming if you are doing them. Basically just swirl the surface with your hand and try and get that up do not put the gravel vacuum down into your substrate and vacuum thoroughly.

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