None of my plants have ever grown, please help!

[Colton M]

Hello, I’m new to the forum but not new to the site, I’ve purchased many plants in the last couple years I’ve been in the hobby and I just cannot get my plants to grow, I’ve been using easy green about once a week with the recommended dosage, as well as api co2 booster (liquid) as often as I remember to do so (about 3x a week). Like the title says, I just cannot get any plants to grow in any of my tanks! Please let me know what other information is needed to get some help, I’ve spent a concerning amount of money on plants… The photo attached is of my Jungle Val which has shown no signs of growth and looks very sad. 

[AnimalNerd98]

Could you tell us a bit more about: 

1) Tank size

2) Tank parameters 

3) Stocking 

4) Light intensity (send a photo of your tank or the brand of light you have) and light cycle 

5) How long has the tank been set-up?

First and foremost, I will tell you that Val is sensitive to liquid carbon like API CO2 Booster. The active ingredient is gluteraldehyde and its main job is to inhibit algae growth. However, some plants like anacharis and Val are sensitive to it. 

“Which plants are sensitive to liquid carbon?Certain plants, like anacharis and vallisneria, are notorious for melting away in the presence of liquid carbon. If you have sensitive plants like these, consider dosing at half the recommended amount.” 

This is from the Co-Op‘s article on Liquid Carbon. 

Finally, while technically Jungle Val does not need root tabs to grow, I have personally found that root tabs or a well-seasoned substrate (with lots of fish poop) can lead to explosive growth for my Val when compared to tanks in the past where I just had it in sand and liquid fertilizer. 

[CT_]

Since you only mentioned the val I'll say that for whatever reason val hates my tank.  I tried dwarf saggitaria and it's growing great.  It's smaller than the big jungle val, but it reaches 10-12" tall in my tank.  Also if you look at pics you often see that the leaves are slightly fatter at the top.  This is the emersed growth. the submerged growth, to my eyes, look exactly the same as normal valisnaria.

[PotatoFish]

I see guppies! 😄

Have you tried leaving the plants in the rock wool in the pots that they came in? One great trick Cory gave in a video was to open up the rock wool a bit and put a root tab right inside it where the roots would grow. Then, bury the pot a bit into your substrate. If it's a plant that develops runners, they'll just grow right out of the pot and into the soil next to it.

I am not sure what plants you have tried. But there are some great beginner plants like anubis that will grow on a rock and feed on stuff in the water column. I think java fern is also great, but even some experienced aquarists have problems getting things just right, especially potassium.

Also, have you tried some floating plants like water sprite? Those things will float and soak up that liquid fertilizer in the water column. Just make sure your aquarium has some good flow.

Good luck! Tell us more about your tank, and what you choose to use. Then maybe we can help more.

[PotatoFish]

Oi, I just read the tabs you used.

A few things...monte carlo is kinda tricky to get growing. You could try what I had mentioned above with the root tab in rock wool with the plant. Just tuck it back in the pot all cozy-like and grow it there, letting it spill out as it expands.

Java moss might be grown emersed (out of the water), at which point it would experience some serious melting as it converts its leaves to being immersed (submerged in water).

Just make sure you don't give up on a plant that is melting back. A number of folks may get so disheartened by all the dead leaves that they discard the plant before it comes back to grow super awesome aquatic leaves.

[Colton M]

Thank you all for the replies, some more info about the tank, the tank with the Val in it is a 55g that I’ve tried a ton of different plants in. It has a 75g sponge filter, some Congo tetras, neon tetras, guppies, kuhli loaches, emerald corydoras, and a common pleco. Not overstocked but definitely a large range of fish as this tank has become something of an everything tank. I live on a well with a water softener so my kh is pretty high and ph is around 8. I keep the tank at 78°F. And for the light I have a Fluval aqua sky 900mm with the lights turning on at sunrise and at 60% power until sunset (roughly 5:00am to 8:30pm). And for substrate I have Fluval Stratum about 2 1/2 inches deep. 

[Seattle_Aquarist]

On 8/23/2022 at 5:21 AM, Colton M said:

Thank you all for the replies, some more info about the tank, the tank with the Val in it is a 55g that I’ve tried a ton of different plants in. It has a 75g sponge filter, some Congo tetras, neon tetras, guppies, kuhli loaches, emerald corydoras, and a common pleco. Not overstocked but definitely a large range of fish as this tank has become something of an everything tank. I live on a well with a water softener so my kh is pretty high and ph is around 8. I keep the tank at 78°F. And for the light I have a Fluval aqua sky 900mm with the lights turning on at sunrise and at 60% power until sunset (roughly 5:00am to 8:30pm). And for substrate I have Fluval Stratum about 2 1/2 inches deep. 

Hi @Colton M

I've been watching this post and I believe I have a probable cause for your lack of plant growth - it is the water softener.  Water softeners use a resin to strip out the calcium and magnesium ions from the water replacing then with either sodium or potassium ions (depending upon the softener recharge agent - sodium chloride / potassium chloride).  The most common recharge agent is sodium chloride (NaCl aka salt).  This is great for your plumbing, showers, laundry, etc. but unfortunately is not good for growing plants, especially aquatic plants.

You are not the first to encounter this issue, and no doubt you will not be the last.  There are ways to deal with this issue but first, do you know what the water parameters of your well water are? (btw, they will vary over the course of a year)  Could you please provide the following for your well water:

pH -
dKH -
dGH -
Nitrates (ppm) -

-Roy

 

Edited August 24, 2022 by Seattle_Aquarist

[Colton M]

On 8/23/2022 at 10:34 AM, Seattle_Aquarist said:

Hi @Colton M

I've been watching this post and I believe I have a probable cause for your lack of plant growth - it is the water softener.  Water softeners use a resin strip out the calcium and magnesium ions from the water replacing then with either sodium or potassium ions (depending upon the softener recharge agent - sodium chloride / potassium chloride).  The most common recharge agent is sodium chloride (NaCl aka salt).  This is great for your plumbing, showers, laundry, etc. but unfortunately is not good for growing plants, especially aquatic plants.

You are not the first to encounter this issue, and no doubt you will not be the last.  There are ways to deal with this issue but first, do you know what the water parameters of your well water are? (btw, they will vary over the course of a year)  Could you please provide the following for your well water:

pH -
dKH -
dGH -
Nitrates (ppm) -

-Roy

 

I will get exact numbers when I get to the house using my master test kit but ph is around 8, hardness is off the chart (high end) for both and nitrates are very close to zero. 

Edited August 23, 2022 by Colton M

[Colton M]

On 8/23/2022 at 10:34 AM, Seattle_Aquarist said:

Hi @Colton M

I've been watching this post and I believe I have a probable cause for your lack of plant growth - it is the water softener.  Water softeners use a resin to strip out the calcium and magnesium ions from the water replacing then with either sodium or potassium ions (depending upon the softener recharge agent - sodium chloride / potassium chloride).  The most common recharge agent is sodium chloride (NaCl aka salt).  This is great for your plumbing, showers, laundry, etc. but unfortunately is not good for growing plants, especially aquatic plants.

You are not the first to encounter this issue, and no doubt you will not be the last.  There are ways to deal with this issue but first, do you know what the water parameters of your well water are? (btw, they will vary over the course of a year)  Could you please provide the following for your well water:

pH -
dKH -
dGH -
Nitrates (ppm) -

-Roy

 

Unfortunately I have not been able to get measurements of the water, but I did learn that the water coming from the well into my house goes through an iron filter and then to a water softener that uses the yellow bags of Morton softener salt pellets, I’m hoping to add a T after the iron filter and before the water softener but I’m not sure what the hardness or ph will be after that. 

[PotatoFish]

If you cancheck the water parameters with a test kit, I suggest you do so before you make any changes to the water chemistry. Otherwise, you're guessing what is in there.

You could use some sacrificial plants, and then, as they die, watch how the leaves wither then react to that. I think slow-growing plants will let you see the changes more clearly, but fast-growing plants will let you see the changes more quickly (anyone confirm?).

Or, if you took already took pictures of the aquarium with plants in various stages of downfall, we might be able to help determine what might be missing.

[Seattle_Aquarist]

On 8/28/2022 at 10:28 PM, Colton M said:

Unfortunately I have not been able to get measurements of the water, but I did learn that the water coming from the well into my house goes through an iron filter and then to a water softener that uses the yellow bags of Morton softener salt pellets, I’m hoping to add a T after the iron filter and before the water softener but I’m not sure what the hardness or ph will be after that. 

Hi @Colton M

OK, we know that you likely have little to no iron, calcium, and magnesium in your water.  In addition, as the water softener removes the calcium and magnesium it increases the sodium bicarbonate which increases the pH of your tank.  Ideally you can install that "T" before the water softener and use that water.  Worse comes to worse you can install an reverse osmosis system to supply water for your tank.  Reverse Osmosis will remove 97% of the sodium and 97% of the bicarbonates.  Then you can re-minieralize your RO water for the conditions you want in your tank.  Since using an RO unit causes a lot of 'waste water' (you can still use the water for other uses( you are fortunate that your well where you do not pay for water by the cubic yard like we do when hooked up to a utility.  Hope this helps! -Roy

[Colton M]

On 8/29/2022 at 11:33 AM, Seattle_Aquarist said:

Hi @Colton M

OK, we know that you likely have little to no iron, calcium, and magnesium in your water.  In addition, as the water softener removes the calcium and magnesium it increases the sodium bicarbonate which increases the pH of your tank.  Ideally you can install that "T" before the water softener and use that water.  Worse comes to worse you can install a reverse osmosis system to supply water for your tank.  Reverse Osmosis will remove 97% of the sodium and 97% of the bicarbonates.  Then you can re-minieralize your RO water for the conditions you want in your tank.  Since using an RO unit causes a lot of 'waste water' (you can still use the water for other uses( you are fortunate that your well where you do not pay for water by the cubic yard like we do when hooked up to a utility.  Hope this helps! -Roy

 Hoping to get the fitting installed tonight, I will have to bring buckets upstairs until I can get pipe run but it will work for now, should I expect a lower ph then after the iron filter without the water softener? I’m also a little concerned that the water will be extremely hard but we’ll have to see. If it is very hard what are the suggestions to lowering hardness without tannins?

[Seattle_Aquarist]

On 8/29/2022 at 3:25 PM, Colton M said:

 Hoping to get the fitting installed tonight, I will have to bring buckets upstairs until I can get pipe run but it will work for now, should I expect a lower ph then after the iron filter without the water softener? I’m also a little concerned that the water will be extremely hard but we’ll have to see. If it is very hard what are the suggestions to lowering hardness without tannins?

Hi @Colton M  You may still have to use reverse osmosis to lower the hardness, it's a shame you can't get a sample of the well water before having to install the fitting. -Roy

[Patrick_G]

@Seattle_Aquaristis there a list of plants that might do better in hard, high PH water? 

[Colton M]

On 8/29/2022 at 6:30 PM, Seattle_Aquarist said:

Hi @Colton M  You may still have to use reverse osmosis to lower the hardness, it's a shame you can't get a sample of the well water before having to install the fitting. -Roy

It’s getting a bit late and I need parts so the plumbing will have to wait until the weekend, I’ll get a sample of the well water tonight, but I’m not sure if the iron will throw off the readings?

Edited August 30, 2022 by Colton M

[Seattle_Aquarist]

Hi @Colton M, No, the iron will not effect the pH, dKH, dGH readings.  -Roy

[Seattle_Aquarist]

On 8/29/2022 at 4:54 PM, Patrick_G said:

@Seattle_Aquaristis there a list of plants that might do better in hard, high PH water? 

Hi @Patrick_G  I am not aware of one but it is possible there is one out there somewhere.  Keep in mind that the plants we use in our aquariums are subject to a variety of water conditions over the course of a year they experience monsoon rains with soft water, drought with harder water, and everything in-between.  I believe that most plants can adapt within a range of water conditions if other needs are met such as lights and nutrients. -Roy

[The Killer of Fish]

@Seattle_Aquarist, I know I'm a little late to the discussion and the fitting has already been installed, but wouldn't have been better to put the fitting on before any of the filters?  Then you get the base water and go from there.  Maybe with the iron in the water @Colton M could have the best red plants in the region.😏

BTW - @Colton M be careful with all of these changes to your water.  You are doing this to grow plants, but you never mentioned that your fish were suffering, so they are used to the water you have had and you are about to make a big change... at least it seems like a big change.  We don't want to go from dead plants to dead fish.

Edited August 30, 2022 by The Killer of Fish

[Colton M]

On 8/30/2022 at 12:52 PM, The Killer of Fish said:

@Seattle_Aquarist, I know I'm a little late to the discussion and the fitting has already been installed, but wouldn't have been better to put the fitting on before any of the filters?  Then you get the base water and go from there.  Maybe with the iron in the water @Colton M could have the best red plants in the region.😏

BTW - @Colton M be careful with all of these changes to your water.  You are doing this to grow plants, but you never mentioned that your fish were suffering, so they are used to the water you have had and you are about to make a big change... at least it seems like a big change.  We don't want to go from dead plants to dead fish.

It has not been installed yet as I’m a ways from the store so I have to wait for parts, I believe the iron here would be too strong for fish unfortunately, the plants may like it a lot but it’s bad enough that the walls of our showers and toilets turn brown if we don’t have that filter, but I’d be open to trying it, I do have access to water straight from the well at the moment at least to test, now that I have a little time tonight I’m finally going to test it and post here in about an hour with results. 

[Colton M]

On 8/30/2022 at 5:19 PM, Colton M said:

It has not been installed yet as I’m a ways from the store so I have to wait for parts, I believe the iron here would be too strong for fish unfortunately, the plants may like it a lot but it’s bad enough that the walls of our showers and toilets turn brown if we don’t have that filter, but I’d be open to trying it, I do have access to water straight from the well at the moment at least to test, now that I have a little time tonight I’m finally going to test it and post here in about an hour with results. 

pH -7.5

Ammonia -0.50ppm 

Nitrite -0ppm

Nitrate -0ppm

@The Killer of Fish@Seattle_Aquarist

I thought I had test strips for hardness but unfortunately I do not, the photo messes with the colors a bit so I added the readings above. This is straight from the well, before the iron filter. 

Edited August 30, 2022 by Colton M

[Seattle_Aquarist]

On 8/30/2022 at 10:52 AM, The Killer of Fish said:

@Seattle_Aquarist, I know I'm a little late to the discussion and the fitting has already been installed, but wouldn't have been better to put the fitting on before any of the filters?  Then you get the base water and go from there.  Maybe with the iron in the water @Colton M could have the best red plants in the region.😏

BTW - @Colton M be careful with all of these changes to your water.  You are doing this to grow plants, but you never mentioned that your fish were suffering, so they are used to the water you have had and you are about to make a big change... at least it seems like a big change.  We don't want to go from dead plants to dead fish.

Hi @The Killer of Fish

Sorry to break this to you but iron concentration has little to nothing to do with the 'Red' coloration is plants.
 -Roy

On 8/30/2022 at 4:23 PM, Colton M said:

pH -7.5

Ammonia -0.50ppm 

Nitrite -0ppm

Nitrate -0ppm

I thought I had test strips for hardness but unfortunately I do not, the photo messes with the colors a bit so I added the readings above. This is straight from the well, before the iron filter. 

Hi @Colton M

I much prefer the accuracy of liquid tests over test strips.  Your water doesn't seem to be that bad, what was the dKH and the dGH?
 -Roy

[Colton M]

On 8/30/2022 at 6:24 PM, Seattle_Aquarist said:

Hi @The Killer of Fish

Sorry to break this to you but iron concentration has little to nothing to do with the 'Red' coloration is plants.
 -Roy

Hi @Colton M

I much prefer the accuracy of liquid tests over test strips.  Your water doesn't seem to be that bad, what was the dKH and the dGH?
 -Roy

I don’t have tests for that like I thought I did, I’ll have to get test strips unless I can find a liquid one. 

[The Killer of Fish]

On 8/30/2022 at 7:24 PM, Seattle_Aquarist said:

… Your water doesn't seem to be that bad, what was the dKH and the dGH?
 -Roy

I know it isn’t much but I am not used to seeing any ammonia or nitrates in well water. 

[Jenja]

Definitely get a liquid gH/kH test kit - if you need to alter your water you need the most accuracy as you can get and strips are good for general range testing but not so much for exact degrees. 

I'm on a water softener too, salt based, and I don't bypass (too complicated for me, old home and I'm not very handy). For years I struggled simply because I didn't know/was never told that the softener was zeroing out my gH. Once I started using Equilibrium I finally had better success with plants and guppies (endler hybrids actually, the guppies I would try and fail with for years before the Equilibrium).

Even with addressing my gH, Vals just don't work for me. Didn't matter which tank I attempted they just don't survive in my water. This is not abnormal, some plants just don't work for me - to complicate things further some plants will work in one tank but fail in another. So it's been a trial and error process finding what works for me. Crypt wendtii have been my best plant overall, it survives and sometimes thrives in some of my tanks. Buce and java ferns both do okay for me. Guppy grass was one that almost didn't work but once it grew a bit it (and hair algae, always with the hair algae, I've come to accept this as a given lol) have my 33g a jungle that I need to prune asap. PSO did a boom then bust in one tank - I pruned too heavily when it was in the boom phase, and was forced to change lighting shortly after that so now it is almost gone. So yeah, expect to try a variety of plants, you will eventually hit some winners for your water. 

Whether you decide to go the bypass route, or if you rather stay with what is straight from the tap and adjust the gH, just be consistent in what you do - constantly chasing parameters to make a specific plant thrive likely will cause more problems in the end.

 

[Seattle_Aquarist]

On 8/30/2022 at 5:13 PM, The Killer of Fish said:

I know it isn’t much but I am not used to seeing any ammonia or nitrates in well water. 

Hi @The Killer of Fish

Well water in areas where there is farming and they use ammonium nitrate as fertilizer for the crops will show up in the well water.
 -Roy