Brightwell Aquatics Erase-CL vs Seachem Prime

[Goldie Blue]

I was at my local fish store today, and the employee there was non stop trashing Seachem Prime (which was one of the things I was in there to pick up today). I guess they have permission to white label BrightWell Aquatics Erase-CL, and sell it as their own product with their own label. She said the only reason they still carry Prime is because customers always ask for it, but this product is much better.

So I bought some of the miracle juice, and I am here to ask your experiences with it. Everything I have been told about the hobby is that Prime is "the" best product. The employee said Prime is good for first starting a cycle but after that it's not useful, and that it has a bunch of unnecessary stuff in it. I've looked for ingredients for both products and it seems both just say it's a proprietary blend. 

It's got great reviews online, so if you have experience with this product please give me your input. 

 

 

[nabokovfan87]

On 7/21/2022 at 12:00 AM, Goldie Blue said:

She said the only reason they still carry Prime is because customers always ask for it, but this product is much better.

I can't find the MSDS sheet for pretty much anything brightwell.  It might be worth the effort to email them and ask for it.

From their website:
 

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Erāse-Cl immediately binds iodine in the event of an overdose (typified by “drooping” and rapidly decaying tissue of corals, clams, their allies, and other sessile invertebrates, as well as erratic behavior and/or death of fishes and motile invertebrates), decreasing the potential for damage to livestock and the beneficial microbes that constitute the biological filter.

Note: It is strongly recommended that hobbyists administering Lugol’s-type iodine supplements (which are typically extremely strong) to reef aquaria have a bottle of Erāse-Cl on hand at all times, in case of accidental overdose.

Ingredients

Purified water, proprietary chlorine and ammonia removers

As for prime:

Brightwell looks to be pretty specific for use with reefs / saltwater because of extra "stuff" it isolates.

Edited July 21, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[Goldie Blue]

On 7/21/2022 at 2:55 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

Brightwell looks to be pretty specific for use with reefs / saltwater because of extra "stuff" it isolates.

This LFS specializes in saltwater and reefs, I am not sure where the Brightwell stuff fits into that because I have 0 experience with that world. She knew I was having issues with my bettas and fin rot (and now my other betta is in bad shape!) I am just super hesitant to try something new with my tanks while I am still having issues I am trying to control. I think I was just mostly taken aback with how disgusted she was by Seachem Prime. It was the first I had heard of this product being spoke of in a negative way. 

[Brandon p]

Corundum done some videos on this might be worth it hiring you tube to search for 5 mins

[face]

people have been try to figure out whats in Prime for ages lol no matter how many times people ask they won't say

the only thing i don't  like about Prime is seachem refuses to prove there ammonia nitrite and nitrate claims

there nitrite and nitrate claims are just anecdotal based off customers review
(pulled from  there website )
How does Prime® make a difference in reducing nitrates?

A: The detoxification of nitrite and nitrate by Prime® (when used at elevated levels) is not well understood from a mechanistic standpoint. The most likely explanation is that the nitrite and nitrate is removed in a manner similar to the way ammonia is removed; i.e. it is bound and held in a inert state until such time that bacteria in the biological filter are able to take a hold of it, break it apart and use it. Two other possible scenarios are reduction to nitrogen (N2) gas or conversion into a benign organic nitrogen compound.

I wish we had some more "concrete" explanation, but the end result is the same, it does actually detoxify nitrite and nitrate. This was unexpected chemically and thus initially we were not even aware of this, however we received numerous reports from customers stating that when they overdosed with Prime® they were able to reduce or eliminate the high death rates they experienced when their nitrite and nitrate levels were high. We have received enough reports to date to ensure that this is no fluke and is in fact a verifiable function of the product.
and free ammonia test kits don't see any changes to ammonia levels when Prime is added which they should if its being bound up

nitrate nitrite and total ammonia tests  will sometimes see a reduction but that is just the thiosulfate (chlorine removal) messing with  the test

i just typed all that and its not even what you asked lol ive never tried brightwell products but they are well regarded for there saltwater additives and most water conditioner are just thiosulfate with additional stuff to make them detoxify (maybe) or increas slime coat or whatever  it will probably do just fine i used Prime  for years and that was fine  to i would use whatever is easier.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

 

[Melkor]

I'm partial to fritz accr. But I've used prime, stress coat and a few others. Dechlorinators are all pretty similar and work regardless. Though I believe some types will affect certain meds, so check when medicating. Brightwell is a reputable company, so I'd imagine its fine.

[nabokovfan87]

On 7/21/2022 at 1:15 AM, Goldie Blue said:

I am just super hesitant to try something new with my tanks while I am still having issues I am trying to control. I think I was just mostly taken aback with how disgusted she was by Seachem Prime. It was the first I had heard of this product being spoke of in a negative way. 

I completely understand that.  I prefer prime over all the others.  Every formula adds it's own little bit to the formula but they all "work" so to speak.
 

Some add aloe vera for slime coat, other have additives to bind metals (I don't think they all do this).  There has been hobbyists saying that prime won't let your tank "achieve the full cycle" when you're looking for anaerobic pockets or bcb baskets or other methods.  I have never had issues using prime at all, ever.  I know there are times when you need to use something else, especially some meds, that's the only reason to have something else on hand.  This is noted on some medications, other may be affected but not noted, causing a lot of confusion.

Here's an article on the topic:

 

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1. Dechlorinator

Instantly removes chlorine but leaves ammonia and heavy metals.

Even though dechlorinators have become less popular because they do not deal with ammonia, you can still find them on pet store shelves. CrystalClear Vanish is one of the more popular brands.

Warning: If your tap water contains chloramine, a dechlorinator can cause ammonia to build up to dangerous levels!

2. Chloramine neutralizer

Instantly removes chlorine, breaks down chloramine and neutralizes ammonia in one of two ways:

1. Binds the ammonia molecule, causing it to become harmless to your fish
2. Converts the ammonia into ammonium, also harmless to your fish

Fritz Pro is a popular water conditioner that just focuses on chlorine and chloramine without all the extra stuff.

While some brands of chloramine neutralizer will also neutralize heavy metals, others will not – always check the packaging to make sure that you are buying the right water conditioner for your situation.

Important: If you use an ammonia test kit that is not specifically for ammonia (NH3), it can also pick up the harmless ammonium (NH4). This can make the result look dangerously high, even though it isn’t.

3. Complete conditioner

Generally speaking, when most aquarists mention water conditioner, this is the type they are referring to.

As the name suggests, this water conditioner does it all:

• Eliminates chlorine
• Neutralizes ammonia
• Detoxifies heavy metals
• Eliminates copper
• Buffers pH
• Protects fish slime coats

And more…

The number of actions entirely depends on the brand of complete conditioner.

My personal favorite complete conditioner is Seachem Prime. I use it in all my aquariums, and it takes the top spot in my best water conditioner recommendations.

4. Reverse osmosis water conditioner

Okay, so technically this isn’t a water conditioner but rather a re-mineralizer. But because both manufacturers and hobbyists refer to it as a water conditioner, I decided to include it.

Many reverse osmosis (RO) systems remove chlorine, chloramine and the other nasties found in tap water.

Because of this, you won’t need to use a water conditioner with RO water.

But RO water also removes the good stuff too, like calcium, potassium, sodium and magnesium – trace elements that are essential for a healthy tank.

An RO water conditioner replaces these missing minerals.

 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 7/21/2022 at 3:24 PM, Pepere said:

Personally I suspect there is a lot of snake oil selling going on in regards to locking ammonia and nitrite up..

 

I prefer to do a water change to reduce the levels and use the dechlorinator to dechlorinate the water.  Idont add dechlorinator to lock up ammonia or nitrite.

 

either way the company should be happy. i am using more of their product and will have to replace it.

However, if dechlorinator doesn't remove chloramine, a water change would add ammonia back.  

I like to buy products that remove both chlorine and chloramine, but I'm like "most people" that Cory mentioned in the video. I haven't tested chlorine and chloramine at the tap.  I don't want to buy a test kit just for that. Maybe one day I will take it to LFS and have them test.

[Goldie Blue]

On 7/21/2022 at 2:46 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

However, if dechlorinator doesn't remove chloramine, a water change would add ammonia back.  

Here is the issue I am really wondering about. So my other betta has fin rot now, and it's gotten pretty bad. My tap water is between 2.0 -3.0 ppm ammonia out of the tap when I test with the master kit, and a few other members here have suggested the water has high chloramines. I have been testing my water after water change day, after dosing with Prime and I'll still get a reading of about 0.25 ppm ammonia in his particular tank. I tried to set up a QT tank, with a cycled sponge filter that was sitting in my established tank for two and a half months, and I could not get the ammonia in the QT tank down past 2.0. So I am salting him in his tank now and hoping that my plants don't die. I should probably make a separate post about this, but to say I am frustrated is an understatement. In theory I do everything right, yet these two bettas are still having issues.

Everything you read is "clean water" for fin rot, I am religious with my water changes, I did them even when I was laid out with covid. If my water itself is not clean though, that could be an issue. I am honestly thinking about getting an RO system and am now stressed out about how I can somehow mess that up too. 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 7/21/2022 at 4:03 PM, Goldie Blue said:

Here is the issue I am really wondering about. So my other betta has fin rot now, and it's gotten pretty bad. My tap water is between 2.0 -3.0 ppm ammonia out of the tap when I test with the master kit, and a few other members here have suggested the water has high chloramines. I have been testing my water after water change day, after dosing with Prime and I'll still get a reading of about 0.25 ppm ammonia in his particular tank. I tried to set up a QT tank, with a cycled sponge filter that was sitting in my established tank for two and a half months, and I could not get the ammonia in the QT tank down past 2.0. So I am salting him in his tank now and hoping that my plants don't die. I should probably make a separate post about this, but to say I am frustrated is an understatement. In theory I do everything right, yet these two bettas are still having issues.

Everything you read is "clean water" for fin rot, I am religious with my water changes, I did them even when I was laid out with covid. If my water itself is not clean though, that could be an issue. I am honestly thinking about getting an RO system and am now stressed out about how I can somehow mess that up too. 

Prime has been known to give a false ammonia reading.  @nabokovfan87 has a water aeration testing method that maybe you can try?

[nabokovfan87]

On 7/21/2022 at 1:03 PM, Goldie Blue said:

I should probably make a separate post about this, but to say I am frustrated is an understatement. In theory I do everything right, yet these two bettas are still having issues.

Yeah, let's move this bit to the disease section with full details and photos and such.
 

On 7/21/2022 at 1:03 PM, Goldie Blue said:

Everything you read is "clean water" for fin rot, I am religious with my water changes, I did them even when I was laid out with covid. If my water itself is not clean though, that could be an issue. I am honestly thinking about getting an RO system and am now stressed out about how I can somehow mess that up too. 

Not everything! But I totally understand the frustration
 

On 7/21/2022 at 1:03 PM, Goldie Blue said:

My tap water is between 2.0 -3.0 ppm ammonia out of the tap when I test with the master kit, and a few other members here have suggested the water has high chloramines.

I think there is a way to "smell" the water to determine which one is the case.  Smell of bleach/chlorine vs. ammonia cleaners. 

I would suggest, HIGHLY SUGGEST, trying to precondition the water in some way.  If you don't have the space to do this, I totally understand.

1.  55G trashcan from the hardware store
2.  Wheels for said trashcan
3.  Lava rock (garden section), probably 1-2 bags would be sufficient.
4.  Pumphead from ACO
5.  Airstone / airpump

I would suggest trying to replicate this setup in some way and run a test.  You want to find out if you can "cycle" this and remove the ammonia with off-gassing, bacteria, etc. or if this is actually chloramines.

https://aquanswers.com/how-long-does-it-take-for-chlorine-to-evaporate-from-tap-water-entirely/
 

Quote

Prime, for example, converts chloramine into chloride but takes care of the leftover ammonia as well.

Quote

This would mean that if it only takes 1 day for chlorine to evaporate it will take chloramine about 3.

Quote

3. Moving water – Another useful tip Em gave me about dechlorination is that the more surface area the water has the faster the chlorine will evaporate.

Apparently, chlorine evaporates faster when in contact with air.

Thus recirculating the water will also speed up dechlorination.

Em told me a common old practice where you just move water from one container to another a couple of times.

This gives the water plenty of movement and contact with the air so the chlorine evaporates faster.

If you are okay with looking like a madman you can try it.

I know I wasn’t, so I came up with a workaround. Following this logic, I’ve found that using airstones will speed up dechlorination by almost a half.

One more thing you can do to speed up the process is reaching out to the… sun.

 

Hopefully some of the above helps...  I am very sorry for the struggles and hopefully having 1-2 airstones constantly in both tanks is a great way to help alleviate some of the water quality issues and increase that off-gassing rate.

[_Eric_]

I haven't seen anyone rip on Prime either.  It may have some extra stuff but I haven't heard of it hurting anything.  If you are just using to dechlorinate water, I think any product that made by a reputable brand will work just fine.  Those brands try to differentiate from each other, but it is a commodity for most setups/water sources.  I used Prime with a crashing cycle and that incident worked out fine so I like keeping it around.  It may have been fine without the Prime (who knows), but I don't see a reason to use something else.  Fritz Complete is supposed to have the same "binding" capabilities for a longer duration but I can't stand the smell of that product.

[Flumpweesel]

I started using prime because it was the best value dechlorinator when I was doing two water changes a day nursing my goldfish through fin rot.  Haven't found anything easily acquired here that is better value.

Good luck with the fin rot I got through it with water changes and no meds (antibiotics are not available unprescribed here). It's a battle but I'm sure you are up to task. 

 

 

[Cory]

Basically dechlorinator is a commodity item. This is why there are a few chemical companies that will make you a dechlorinator. I went down this road, but I couldn't answer my question. "How is aquarium co-op's dechlorinator better?" We could make it more gallons treated per dollar, but at the end of the day, grab nearly any dechlor off the shelf and it's getting the job done.

I feel like this is probably one of those things like proving which paper towel is the best, when reality is, any paper towel basically gets the job done. Sure one might be better suited for a particular job like public bathroom vs kitchen. But if there is a spill on my floor, any are going to work.

In general if any employee is trashing a product, esp something like prime. I question it. I don't like seachem as a company, but at the end of the day prime is pretty good cause the bar is so low, any dechlor is "pretty good"

[AquaHobbyist123]

Seachem Prime is my personal favorite, and it's readily available at most places near me. It works great, is highly concentrated, also detoxifies ammonia in small concentrations, and not very expensive. (Though when you open that bottle, hold your breath!)