Fast Moving, Weird Illness

[dasaltemelosguy]

On 6/16/2022 at 4:28 PM, Torrey said:

@Odd Duck if I manage to get my hands on the research I will send it to you, as it would appear this particular microbe is appearing more often. I was almost positive NMSU had done some research on it, as an ag school. I can't remember who in the forum works/worked with fish farms? That was the first paper I read on this, was a flesh eating disease that spread rapidly through a fish farm (my memory is faulty ever since the stroke, but I want to say less than a month from first loss to total loss).

@dasaltemelosguy it was the fact you referenced both the apparent flesh eating moving rapidly plus seeing ich, that allowed my brain to make the connection. Most of the cases I have read about, death occurred less than 24 hours after the appearance of the first lesion only in cases that responded specifically to gram negative antibiotics. 

However, it was slower when it responded to gram positive antibiotics.

Regardless of response, ich appeared on other species in the tank that didn't develop the flesh eating sores.

Hopefully, seeing multiple stories of similar experiences together in one place, someone who has access to more testing capabilities can nudge some forward action. Maybe someone in the forum has already seen the research done for the fish farms, and can share the research.

Regardless, I hope the meds continue to work for you dasaltemelosguy. I do know (because it was similar to medical healthcare standard of care for MRSA) that stains were recommended and antibiotic compliance was indicated to continue until there was no longer any of the specific bacteria present. I think that was also in the paper I linked above. Thank you for bringing this to everyone's attention, because if both you and @anewbie are dealing with this, how many more in the forum will see something similar? And the secret to successful treatment seems to be treat everyone as soon as the first sore is identified, but no one knows what it is until they see it progress this rapidly (unless we all get microscopes and stains).

Hi, @Torrey, thank you. I'm sorry, I didn't see this earlier. I have a little more info, but it's stumped me frankly. 

This tank had the dojos and blue acaras in QT. About 1/2 died from the flash eating issue but the rest seemed to recover and look and eat well. It was treated @Colu's columnaris treatment going and in 3 days, completely halted the flesh-eating illness. 

The acaras became ich infested but that's cleared up via salt and Ich-x. All seemed fine, however they started dying 1 by 1 and some stopped eating. 

This morning I turned on the lights and saw this.

From a distance, it looked like the worst diatoms situation imaginable until looking closely. They are worms. 1000s of worms. 

Does anyone recognize what these might be? 

In the microscope video of these below is one worm in a drop of water. At second 12, I added 1 drop of seltzer and the worm died in about 90 seconds. You'll see him get still and eventually no movement at all. 

Of course, this does infected fish no good! I just wanted to see if seltzer killed these as it kills planaria et al. Here are some stills of the worm and a video of him under the scope before and after seltzer being applied is below. 

However, these things seem to be wiping out two tanks, a 120G and a 75G tank full of fish as I write this. Healthy looking, not a blemish and eating well, finding one adult severum or acara dead every morning. If anyone has any ideas, I'd love to save who I still can. Thanks everyone for your help and time. 

    

There's a lot of these but I'm not sure these are related as I've seen these in healthy tanks before:

A few images of them in the tank. With my finger for scale, they are about 1/16th inch or less in length:

 

Here's the short video of 1 worm. Up to second 12 is normal. After second 12, he's in seltzer which killed him in about 90s. 

MICROSCOPE VIDEO OF 1 WORM FROM INFESTATION

Thanks everybody.

[nabokovfan87]

Do you see them free floating or just on the glass?

I have something similar on mine, unsure if it's worms of algae at this point. I tried to record a video, but I don't have a good camera to do so.  I've got 3-4 videos of it, I'll review them and see if anything worth uploading.  I am not a fan of worms right now.

Edited July 6, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[dasaltemelosguy]

On 7/5/2022 at 4:48 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Do you see them free floating or just on the glass?

I have something similar on mine, unsure if it's worms of algae at this point. I tried to record a video, but I don't have a good camera to do so.  I've got 3-4 videos of it, I'll review them and see if anything worth uploading.  I am not a fan of worms right now.

Hi, these are largely adhered to every surface. I do see a few swimming in a serpentine fashion. I just tried levamisole but only hours ago and they appear lighter and fatter but moving as usual. I'll keep an eye on them under the scope as well and let you know what I see. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 7/5/2022 at 7:03 PM, dasaltemelosguy said:

I'll keep an eye on them under the scope as well and let you know what I see. 

Many thanks. Trying to figure out if it's even safe for my hands in the tank at this point.

Next step for me after expel-p is the canine dewormer with fenbendazole

Edited July 6, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[eatyourpeas]

They almost look like insect larvae. Are your tanks covered? Could a fly of some sort have deposited eggs in the tank water?

[nabokovfan87]

On 7/5/2022 at 8:14 PM, eatyourpeas said:

Are your tanks covered? Could a fly of some sort have deposited eggs in the tank water?

possible, but my tank is covered and in a room with the door often closed. When the window is open, bugs can get in.  I am pretty sure mine is detritus worms at this point.  I can't say if the stuff on the glass is worms or not. I'm letting it grow before scraping to figure out what exactly it does.  It's very very small as mentioned by the OP.

What kind of insect do you think it could be?

On 7/5/2022 at 7:03 PM, dasaltemelosguy said:

I do see a few swimming in a serpentine fashion

same as that video in the other thread?

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 6/16/2022 at 12:38 PM, dasaltemelosguy said:

Thank you so much for the kind words. I do very much prefer this stuff to using clove oil for the reason you cited. I had a bad clove oil experience when my betta passed too. So long as you go slowly, this stuff seems to quit literally put them to sleep and then you increase it until the gills stop.

What is LD? 

I used baking soda successfully. It was quick.

[dasaltemelosguy]

A minor update. A single dose of levamisole seems to have killed all of them adhered to the glass overnight. Most fell off the glass as well. It did not kill the free-swimming critters, but a 2nd dose did that as well. 

I think you guys are right, it's some kind/s of insect larva. That tank had been through a great deal of trauma and when I started seeing new deaths and the 'worms' simultaneously I thought they were related. But I think there were a few weakened fish from the QT that were not going to recover as the rest look terrific. 

This is a video of one of the larvae on the glass after levamisole. It's seeming to have lost form and any internal order:

Larva after Levamisole

This is one was adhered to the glass. A single drop of seltzer is added, and it's expired in about 90 seconds.

Larva Adhered to Glass

This is one was free-swimming. A single drop of seltzer is added, and it's expired in 45 seconds.

Larva Free-Swimming

Whatever they are, they sure hate soda!

[dasaltemelosguy]

On 7/6/2022 at 8:40 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

What is LD? 

I used baking soda successfully. It was quick.

Thanks. Sorry, "LD" is "lethal dose". Koi Sedate seems to have a sedation dosage that's precariously close to the lethal dose so they caution about that.

[Colu]

It's possible you had two things going on as you have  the treated the  bacterial infection you could be dealing with a parastic infection that would explain the death with out any symptoms as some types of parasites will cause internal damage that will kill your fish  before you notice any symptoms I would keep treating with Expel p try adding seachems garlic guard to their food to help stimulate they appetite  @dasaltemelosguy

Edited July 7, 2022 by Colu