Frustrated & Ready To Quit

[Tori_W_22]

Hey all. I’m at the point in my fish keeping journey where I am ready to just give up. I’ve been keeping fish tanks my whole life but I’ve been keeping them correctly for the last year. I have been pretty successful and happy with all of my tanks until the last 4 months or so. I feel like even though I am keeping my fish at the parameters they like and doing routine water changes and tank maintenance I’ve been loosing fish and I don’t know what to do!!

I lost a betta to dropsy last month despite doing everything I could. Now another betta I have has developed a tumor on her side. No meds are helping.
 

I’ve been finding a dead otocinclus in my 55g tank every day for the last week and I CANNOT figure out why. The rest of the fish in my tank are seemingly fine. My otocinclus were BREEDING 6 months ago and flourishing so I don’t understand why now they are randomly dying. They are only a little over a year old so it’s not due to old age. 
 

I cannot get my teacup platy’s to breed. Period. No matter what I do. I started with 12 and now I have 3 because they too keep randomly dying and despite having 2 females and one male left they will not breed. They are the only fish I have that prefer hard water and I keep the water parameters where they should be, yet I’m unsuccessful. 
 

My white cloud minnows have been slowly wasting away and dying off despite feeding them regularly and treating them with meds. They are kept without a heater due to liking colder temps and I’ve treated them with the med trio and other parasite meds and nothing is helping. 
 

All of my water parameters are correct for each fish tank according to online forums and I always treat my tap water (when I use it) and I use RODI for the fish that like soft water. I don’t understand why everything is constantly going wrong lately. I am at a point where I’ve put so much time and MONEY into this hobby and it’s not rewarding anymore, it’s just stressful and downright upsetting. 

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Hi @Tori_W_22, welcome to the forum- although if you quit fishkeeping then we may not have you long- lets try and fix that.

I am very sorry- frustrating!

We are very helpful people here so if you don't mind, make another post giving details of each tank 1 by one- a picture, how long it's been running, what you're using for filtration, your water change schedule and full water test results/temperature. A lot of us are kind of subject matter experts on different things so it is helpful to know all of the above. 

I can tell you a couple of things just by superficial info from your post. 

Betta fish: near impossible to keep even for the best of fish keepers. Dropsy is not uncommon- and not curable really- I mean you can get them to recover but by the time the symptoms of dropsy are showing organ failure has already started. Tumors also not uncommon. Just do a search on this forum for "sick" or "dying" betta fish and you will see misery is definitely company when it comes to Betta. They are BEAUTIFUL AND WONDERFUL fish- but I will no longer keep them- they are heart breaking. 

Plants- I see some real and some fake? I have nothing against fake plants at all- but it appears the betta tanks are fake? Plants could make a world of difference there. Also- those connected tanks- if they have the same filtration sadly the bettas often share the same diseases. 

Otos- they're hard. I have 70 (mine spawned a few times). I've moved my young tank bred ones from one tank to another of my own and they did not always do well- telling me they're not just hard to keep from wild caught- but also even when they're tank raised. 

I suspect you might have something called Old Tank Syndrome but without further information on each tank and their running time/tests etc we're just guessing. 

Edited June 3, 2022 by xXInkedPhoenixX

[nabokovfan87]

On 6/3/2022 at 11:11 AM, Tori_W_22 said:

I feel like even though I am keeping my fish at the parameters they like and doing routine water changes and tank maintenance I’ve been loosing fish and I don’t know what to do!!

From everything I see in your photos, the tanks are absolutely beautiful and I'm very sorry you're having issues.  I promise you, we have all been there!  I haven't been able to grow a plant in what feels like 5 years, despite many efforts.

I want to take a step back and ask about each tank and your maintenance routine.  How often are you changing water, what %, and how often are you cleaning the filter/gravel vac?  How often are you cleaning impellers?

My other question is just going to be, where do you usually get your betta's from?

On 6/3/2022 at 11:33 AM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

Betta fish: near impossible to keep even for the best of fish keepers. Dropsy is not uncommon- and not curable really- I mean you can get them to recover but by the time the symptoms of dropsy are showing organ failure has already started. Tumors also not uncommon. Just do a search on this forum for "sick" or "dying" betta fish and you will see misery is definitely company when it comes to Betta. They are BEAUTIFUL AND WONDERFUL fish- but I will no longer keep them- they are heart breaking. 

I would highly recommend bolivian rams. Similar care, you can literally use everything you have, but swap 1 betta for 1 bolivian ram.  It's a fun fish with great personality!

On 6/3/2022 at 11:11 AM, Tori_W_22 said:

My white cloud minnows have been slowly wasting away and dying off despite feeding them regularly and treating them with meds. They are kept without a heater due to liking colder temps and I’ve treated them with the med trio and other parasite meds and nothing is helping. 

What is your feeding regime?

[Tori_W_22]

xXInkedPhoenixX

Thank you for all your input. 
 

55g Tank

This tank was set up in December 2021. 2 tidal 55 filters. Also, air stone for aeration. Substrate is a layer of pebbles, then plant substrate, then sand. I had a driftwood mishap (added driftwood and it released too many tannins too quickly) and about 3 months ago took all wood out and did a 100% water change. This tank has overall been my least problematic tank, but this is the tank where my otocinclus are dying. I’ve also had a hard time keep Julii Corydora alive in this tank, but my other fish are fine. The parameters are 30ppm nitrate, 0 nitrite, 0 ammonia, 75ppm GH, 0 chlorine, 40ppm KH, and 6.5 PH. All the plants in this tank are live. There are 2 200w heaters on this tank set to 78 degrees. This tank gets a 25% water change when the Nitrate hits 60ppm. I do fertilize with Flourish, Flourish Excel, and Flourish Advanced 1-2 times weekly. The filters are cleaned out once monthly (in old tank water). This tank almost never gets “gravel” vacuumed anymore. EDIT: The entire tidal filers are taken out of the tank and cleaned once monthly. I have SO many issues with these filters clogging and doing a very good job removing debris from the water. I have filter floss inside the filters to help with that, but I do NOT like these filters. 
-5 rummynose (14 died from driftwood error)

-9 cardinal tetra

-6 ember tetra

-7 julii Corydora 

-3 reticulated hillstream loaches

-Amano shrimp

-3 otocinclus (there where 8 last week)

-2 bristlenose pleco

-ghost shrimp

-1 mystery snail
 

10g White Cloud Tank

This tank was set up in March 2021. This tank had 10 white cloud minnows, 1 betta fish, 6 otocinclus, and some ramshorn snails in it. The betta and the otocinclus have been moved out. The tank stays around 70 degrees and has all live plants in it. There is some plastic decor in here, but it’s been in since day one and it’s all “aquarium” safe. I had 1 white cloud die about 4 months ago so I replaced it. Nothing significant after that. 2 months ago I had 2 white clouds die seemingly randomly. Back to back. They had all of their fins “flared” out and had their bodies curved like a “C”. Now, 1/2 of my white clouds are very, very thin (think muscle wasting disease) but I’ve treated them with med trio, then maracyn 2 and no resolution. I have an aqueon 10g filter (tank was a kit) but I use filter floss instead of the replacement filters and I use a piece of filter mat for the “pre filter”. The parameters on this tank are 40ppm nitrate, 0 nitrite, 0 ammonia, 75ppm GH, 0 chlorine, 40ppm KH, and 6.8 PH. This tank gets a 25% water change when nitrate hits 60ppm. The filter is cleaned at that time (in old tank water). This tank gets gravel vacuumed once quarterly  

 

20g long Betta Tank 

This tank was set up in May of 2021. This is a divided tank. I had my betta that died from dropsy in this tank. When he was sick I treated this tank with aquarium salt and elevated temps. Them maracyn. After he died I did another round of maracyn and then maracyn 2 after. The growth on the female betta started about 4 days ago. She does have eggs and a very prominent egg spot at the moment, so I am hoping she is just full of eggs but I’m not convinced. There are 3 sponge filters running on this tank with air stones inside. There are a mix of live and fake plants in this tank. This tank gets a 25% water change when Nitrate hits 40PPM. This tank gets gravel vacuumed every water change. The sponge filters are cleaned every water change/gravel vacuum (it only need to be done about every 2 months). There are 3 50w heaters set to 80 degrees. The parameters are 0ppm nitrate (just finished treating with Maracyn 2), 0 nitrite, 0 ammonia, 0 chlorine, 75ppm GH, 40ppm KH, 6.5 PH. 
 

10g Teacup Platy Tank

This tank has been set up since May 2021. This tank has a sponge filter with air stone. There are mostly fake plants. The live plants hate this tank. There were originally 12 platy and now there are 3. There is one nerite snail. There is a 50w heater preset to 78 degrees. This tank gets 25% water change and gravel vacuumed when nitrate hits 60ppm. Parameters are 20ppm nitrate, 0 nitrite, 0 ammonia, 0 chlorine, 300ppm GH, 140ppm KH, and PH 8. I haven’t had any fish die in this tank in several months, but they aren’t breeding either. 

Edited June 3, 2022 by Tori_W_22

[Tori_W_22]

nabokovfan87
 

Thank you for all your input. I have replied with all my tank information. I have thought about doing rams, and honestly I think I am going to after these bettas live out their days. I got my first betta (the one that died) from a local pet store that I get most of my animals from (I also have almost 100 reptiles). I got my other 2 from petco 😕 I know.. 

 

The white clouds get fed every morning. I alternate between betta bug bites and spiraling flakes bug bites. 

[Cinnebuns]

@Tori_W_22 I am newer to the hobby but I have been there. It's easy to get frustrated and wanna throw in the towel. Especially when a lot of things are going wrong at the same time. I don't have much specific advice for you as others are much smarter and more experienced than me, but I just want to let you know you are in the right place!  The people here will not give up on you as long as you are willing to stay in the fight. There is nothing wrong with a break if that's what you need, but if you want to keep going we are willing to go along with you!  Keep in mind, sometimes you can do everything right and still have "bad" results. As long as you learn from those results, they have a purpose. It just means you are that much better for the next fish you get!  You seem to be smart and a hard worker so I have full faith you will come out on the end better for the experience and on the positive side. Good luck with your journey!

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Thank you @Tori_W_22 I know that's a lot of work to do but it helps a lot 

There are a couple of things that could be problematic- I'm of the mind and experience that Nitrates over 40 can contribute to Nitrate poisoning. Prolonged exposure to high Nitrates (especially sensitive fish like Otos) can cause loss of appetite, weakness and death. It can also cause body curl head to tail (advanced stages- could this be the white cloud issue? I know you said 40 ppm but things have a way of creeping up). Maybe @WhitecloudDynasty can give you some insight on what's going on with them if it's not something like this. 

I still very much suspect old tank syndrome, the higher nitrates kind of point to that.....Then there is the issue of gravel vacuuming which can contribute to that. I think infrequent gravel vacuuming (1x month can be considered infrequent) can sometimes let loose unsavory toxic things that over time builds up and though fish start to build up a tolerance once it gets to a certain level the weaker fish start to die off first. (otos) I actually DON'T gravel vac in 4 out of 5 of my tanks (those tanks have Eco Complete) and only vacuum the actual gravel in my Oto tank because I've ALWAYS done it-and it's done once a week. I suggest looking up "old tank syndrome" on youtube or online to a site you trust and see if that might apply. 

This is one hobbyists opinions to your situation- there may be further opinions (I hope) incoming!

 

Edited June 3, 2022 by xXInkedPhoenixX

[Jacob Hill-Legion Aquatics]

@Tori_W_22 I haven’t read the other replies yet because I don’t have time right now so they might have said this already but if you’re getting all the fish from one place it could be the supplier because in my experience when I bought fish from this store that had good reviews and the fish looked healthy they all died over a couple months even tho the tank was perfect condition for them, then I bought from another store and all of them are doing amazing in the same conditions. It could also be your water, maybe the city added extra chlorine or something in the past couple months. I would look into that if I was you. I hope this helped a bit and I wouldn’t give up if I was you, cause I felt like giving up with plants but I kept trying and eventually got it!

[Tori_W_22]

On 6/3/2022 at 3:36 PM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

Thank you @Tori_W_22 I know that's a lot of work to do but it helps a lot 

There are a couple of things that could be problematic- I'm of the mind and experience that Nitrates over 40 can contribute to Nitrate poisoning. Prolonged exposure to high Nitrates (especially sensitive fish like Otos) can cause loss of appetite, weakness and death. It can also cause body curl head to tail (advanced stages- could this be the white cloud issue? I know you said 40 ppm but things have a way of creeping up). Maybe @WhitecloudDynasty can give you some insight on what's going on with them if it's not something like this. 

I still very much suspect old tank syndrome, the higher nitrates kind of point to that.....Then there is the issue of gravel vacuuming which can contribute to that. I think infrequent gravel vacuuming (1x month can be considered infrequent) can sometimes let loose unsavory toxic things that over time builds up and though fish start to build up a tolerance once it gets to a certain level the weaker fish start to die off first. (otos) I actually DON'T gravel vac in 4 out of 5 of my tanks (those tanks have Eco Complete) and only vacuum the actual gravel in my Oto tank because I've ALWAYS done it-and it's done once a week. I suggest looking up "old tank syndrome" on youtube or online to a site you trust and see if that might apply. 

This is one hobbyists opinions to your situation- there may be further opinions (I hope) incoming!

 

Thank you so much for all of your input! The only reason I let the Nitrate get that high is because I was always under the assumption that the plants needed the nitrate. However, I am now not so sure 😅. I will ABSOLUTELY be doing lots of research into old tank syndrome. Thanks again for all of your information.  Also, you say you never gravel vaccum in 5/6 tanks, would I be better off just not gravel vacuuming?

Edited June 3, 2022 by Tori_W_22

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Think of Nitrate as the final product of "junk" (ammonia and nitrite), yes your plants need it but you are not what I would consider heavily planted so your "junk collectors" aren't keeping up- so, more frequent water changes may be in order. 

[Tori_W_22]

On 6/3/2022 at 4:03 PM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

Think of Nitrate as the final product of "junk" (ammonia and nitrite), yes your plants need it but you are not what I would consider heavily planted so your "junk collectors" aren't keeping up- so, more frequent water changes may be in order. 

Thanks again so much. I thought i was doing too much maintenance and that could be my problem, so I will definitely be doing more. 

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

I really hope that helps you. 

[Tori_W_22]

On 6/3/2022 at 4:03 PM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

Think of Nitrate as the final product of "junk" (ammonia and nitrite), yes your plants need it but you are not what I would consider heavily planted so your "junk collectors" aren't keeping up- so, more frequent water changes may be in order. 

Along with more frequent water changes, would you suggest doing more gravel vacuuming in the mean time? Should I be doing like 30% water changes every other week and gravel vacuuming at that time? Just trying to figure out a new schedule. Thanks!

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

So, I tinker with cars. My Dad always told me- when you're trouble shooting- always start with the simplest things -OR- the last thing you touched (can be one in the same). Then work your way up to the more complex stuff. I tend to use this philosophy in life.

I would say just start with more frequent water changes and gravel vac as you did before (if that was once a month stick with that until and unless you see changes to the better or worse then adjustment might need to be made). Sometimes over reacting/cleaning sends things the other direction. If that seems to work you may have solved your problem. If not- maybe you do water changes and more frequent gravel vac BUT just do a section of the tank at a time. See where I'm going? It's a process of elimination. 

@Jacob Hillalso has a point- if you're on municipal water this is the time of year they make chemical changes that can effect our tanks. Make sure you treat the water before you put it in the tank (just my M.O.). You can check with your water provider to see if anything has changed with water since you've had your deaths/changes. I tend to think that isn't really your issue- only because most of the time you will see the effects shortly after a water change and you didn't mention that. 

I would aim for 20-40 nitrates MAX. 

Edited June 3, 2022 by xXInkedPhoenixX

[Hally M.]

Hi Tori, I'm so sorry to hear that. I've gone through the same thing multiple times and I was on the verge of quitting. Like Phoenix said make more posts about the tanks and hopefully some people can provide some answers for why this happens. Keep Aquarium co-op's med trio nearby just in case because you never know what crazy disease your fishes may have acquired. I wish you the best! Keep going you got this.  

[nabokovfan87]

On 6/3/2022 at 1:45 PM, Tori_W_22 said:

The entire tidal filers are taken out of the tank and cleaned once monthly. I have SO many issues with these filters clogging and doing a very good job removing debris from the water. I have filter floss inside the filters to help with that, but I do NOT like these filters. 

Just potentially to help with your sanity, I'm doing a deep dive into fixing mine.  I have been using them for 5+ years or something and I have worked through a lot of setup issues.  Here's my tips/tricks/methods and please feel free to post there or DM to ask me anything you need about fixing the issues you specifically are experiencing.
 

 

 

On 6/3/2022 at 1:45 PM, Tori_W_22 said:

This tank has overall been my least problematic tank, but this is the tank where my otocinclus are dying. I’ve also had a hard time keep Julii Corydora alive in this tank, but my other fish are fine.  There are 2 200w heaters on this tank set to 78 degrees. This tank gets a 25% water change when the Nitrate hits 60ppm.

3 reticulated hillstream loaches

I'll read through everything up above, but i just want to note that the Otos probably want to be slightly cooler temp.  That may be one factor, the other is usually nitrates (or any of your nitrogen cycle water parameters) as well as aeration.  Cooler water increases oxygenation as well, which helps the smaller species out.  Finally, with otos, it's almost always going to be a food issue, occurring slowly over time.  Your hillstream loaches are also going to enjoy cooler temperatures and higher flow than the rest of the tank stocking.  If you could, I'd put the otos and loaches with your white clouds in a "cooler" tank (70-74 degrees or so).

 

On 6/3/2022 at 1:51 PM, Tori_W_22 said:

I got my first betta (the one that died) from a local pet store that I get most of my animals from (I also have almost 100 reptiles). I got my other 2 from petco 😕 I know.. 

The biggest thing is just knowing how the fish are kept before they get to you.  We all feel bad for all the fix in the big box store, but honestly, every one of my fish if from a petco/petsmart because that is all we have here.  I totally understand the frustration and I ask about bettas source just to try to understand how much of a "risk" it is where you would be getting the fish in to your care severely stressed or suffering.  They get into your care, try to be recuperated, but it's ultimately a matter of time in some cases.  If you want to keep a betta, perhaps the local shop keeps them better and does QT with them effectively for diseases.  You should be able to ask the shop about how they care for them.  Second to that, I would recommend aquahuna for a betta and plan to get one their myself (or a ram!).
 

On 6/3/2022 at 1:45 PM, Tori_W_22 said:

I had 1 white cloud die about 4 months ago so I replaced it. Nothing significant after that. 2 months ago I had 2 white clouds die seemingly randomly. Back to back. They had all of their fins “flared” out and had their bodies curved like a “C”. Now, 1/2 of my white clouds are very, very thin (think muscle wasting disease) but I’ve treated them with med trio, then maracyn 2 and no resolution.

How are they during feeding?  What do you feed them with?  It might be difficult for them to eat some foods due to their size (smaller feedings, 2-3x per day may solve that) as well as something like a flake food or powder food might be easier for them to ingest.  The Xtreme nano pellets might be perfect, but I recommend turning off the filter for 15-20 minutes when feeding because of the skimmer on the tidal.
 

On 6/3/2022 at 1:51 PM, Tori_W_22 said:

The white clouds get fed every morning. I alternate between betta bug bites and spiraling flakes bug bites. 

So they might have an issue with the betta bug bites.  Do they seem to eat them easily enough?  I'd definitely push towards feeding them 2x a day minimum for nano type fish.

 

On 6/3/2022 at 1:45 PM, Tori_W_22 said:

This tank gets gravel vacuumed once quarterly

I'm not sure what this means.  Every 3-4 months?

 

On 6/3/2022 at 1:45 PM, Tori_W_22 said:

This tank gets a 25% water change when Nitrate hits 40PPM

On 6/3/2022 at 1:45 PM, Tori_W_22 said:

This tank gets 25% water change and gravel vacuumed when nitrate hits 60ppm.

Right away I think a few things should happen.  This is to get the tanks to "reset" so to speak so we can track down what exactly is going on. 

1. 50% water change on every tank for the next 3-5 days.  If nitrates are above 20 ppm, change water again the following 24 hours.  If Nitrates are below 40, you might lower the volume to 30% every day until the nitrates drop below 20 ppm.  Ultimately, we want to keep these at a max of 20, but it's going to usually fluctuate between 20-40 depending on a variety of factors.

2. Weekly gravel vac on every tank.  Even if you just top off a tank or something, if it looks like there's 40+ ppm nitrates weekly, gravel vac weekly and try to get the waste out of the water column.  If you have nitrates at 10 ppm, then you might gravel vac every other week. This is going to depend on tank bioload and how much is being fed.

3.  After every tank is given 50% wc today/tomorrow, I would dose salt and then offer flake food an hour later.  Some fish are thin/struggling and it might be a vitamin shot so to speak to get them going in the right direction.

 

On 6/3/2022 at 3:01 PM, Tori_W_22 said:

Thank you so much for all of your input! The only reason I let the Nitrate get that high is because I was always under the assumption that the plants needed the nitrate. However, I am now not so sure 😅. I will ABSOLUTELY be doing lots of research into old tank syndrome. Thanks again for all of your information.  Also, you say you never gravel vaccum in 5/6 tanks, would I be better off just not gravel vacuuming?

There's a very awesome video on how to get through the issues you're going through.  Ultimately I think your fish will do a lot better once things start to improve. I don't think this is something that can't be recovered from. There is hope!  The post you were asking about mentioned "not doing gravel vacs" and ultimately it was because of the type of substrate in those tanks and because the mulm/waste is absorbed into the soil substrate to provide the nutrition for root feeding plants.

As far as it comes to a regime for caring for my tanks, this is what I do in mine:

Once a week, I test every tank for water parameters.  I am doing this weekly (sometimes multiple times a week) because I am having water hardness issues and trying to get plants to take hold.  It's been a fight!

Once a week I will gravel vac lightly, this is just to remove waste from the tank in areas where I know there's going to be fish laying and a LOT of waste in those spots.  I have some clown plecos too that leave a lot of waste and it needs to be removed so I can tell if my corydoras are eating or not.  This takes no more than 5-10 minutes on my tanks (for both tanks).  The only thing that takes time is moving from tank to tank and moving the bucket/stool.  On days where I gravel vac I will also scrape the front glass for algae. You can scrape all sides of the tank, but only the front is really critical to enjoyment.  In tanks with otos, I only scrape the front glass.  If water parameters test ok, the tank "looks fine" I might skip the gravel vac and just change water only.  Gravel vac at minimum is every 2 weeks.

Once a week I change 30-50% of the water.

Once a month, I deep clean the filter, impeller, intake, and pump housing.

Once a month I will clean the lid, light, and try to clean the front glass off from water spots.

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@nabokovfan87 My Otos do ok up to 79 but the Hillstream- yeah he's not a fan of pushing 80s- noticeable difference in behavior. Though I did see a video Cory did once (it was long form talk so not subject focused) where he was making an argument that biotopes for species like that aren't "necessary" and said he'd kept Hillstreams in everything from Goldfish tanks to warmer tropical tanks. Personally I'm good with nothing in the 80s for my fish. 

A good argument can be made for bacteria growing a lot better in warmer water.

[nabokovfan87]

On 6/3/2022 at 5:27 PM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

Though I did see a video Cory did once (it was long form talk so not subject focused) where he was making an argument that biotopes for species like that aren't "necessary" and said he'd kept Hillstreams in everything from Goldfish tanks to warmer tropical tanks.

I give you Cory's best tip!  I love this video because it's so true.  We always are trying to "figure it out" and sometimes it's just about taking a step back and thinking.  It's a good story and I just enjoy a good story when Cory has one to share. 🙂
 

For otos, I go by their gills and their stomach colors. If they are typically red, they are stressed and I try to drop temp and add oxygen.  They definitely can "tolerate" warmer water and do so in the wild, but I try to get them highly oxygenated water because they usually just struggle so hard to have everything perfect.  Otos are by far one of my favorite fish that isn't a cory.  I have 4 (I think 5 now because I just moved one) otos in my display tank and they are going to be hitting summer temps here.  I am hoping I don't lose any.  😕 Tank right now is at 76 degrees when I last checked and it's got nothing in it except for a filter and the light.  Every day it gets a little closer to that 110+ degrees outside.
 

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@nabokovfan87Yes, I agree, I keep their water moving- not only better for them health wise but they seem to appreciate higher flow. My 10 Gallon Accidental Oto tank that had all my babies (60 ish) and for a short time my Zebra/Tiger otos- it without a heater would get up to 79- but it has a sponge filter and an Aqueon Quietflow 10 and you can see the amazon sword being kicked about by the current- they did very well in there. Since I moved all of them in with their parents in the Parent Tank- 2 sponge filters already there- but I put a Quietflow there too- that tank since it's a 20 tall stays cooler though because it's in a colder room- 77 is usually as hot as it gets. 

They are defintely one of the coolest fish in the aquarium hobby imo

Edited June 4, 2022 by xXInkedPhoenixX

[Tori_W_22]

On 6/3/2022 at 6:34 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

I give you Cory's best tip!  I love this video because it's so true.  We always are trying to "figure it out" and sometimes it's just about taking a step back and thinking.  It's a good story and I just enjoy a good story when Cory has one to share. 🙂
 

For otos, I go by their gills and their stomach colors. If they are typically red, they are stressed and I try to drop temp and add oxygen.  They definitely can "tolerate" warmer water and do so in the wild, but I try to get them highly oxygenated water because they usually just struggle so hard to have everything perfect.  Otos are by far one of my favorite fish that isn't a cory.  I have 4 (I think 5 now because I just moved one) otos in my display tank and they are going to be hitting summer temps here.  I am hoping I don't lose any.  😕 Tank right now is at 76 degrees when I last checked and it's got nothing in it except for a filter and the light.  Every day it gets a little closer to that 110+ degrees outside.
 

Thanks so much. This video was exactly what I needed! 

On 6/3/2022 at 6:27 PM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

@nabokovfan87 My Otos do ok up to 79 but the Hillstream- yeah he's not a fan of pushing 80s- noticeable difference in behavior. Though I did see a video Cory did once (it was long form talk so not subject focused) where he was making an argument that biotopes for species like that aren't "necessary" and said he'd kept Hillstreams in everything from Goldfish tanks to warmer tropical tanks. Personally I'm good with nothing in the 80s for my fish. 

A good argument can be made for bacteria growing a lot better in warmer water.

My hillstream loaches seem to be doing ok in the 78 degree 55g tank. They love the bubbles the airstone create and they always seem to be zooming around the tank. 

[PineSong]

I think we have all been as frustrated at some point as you are right now, @Tori_W_22. I'm sorry you are going through it.

I think you've gotten great advice from others already, and I hope you're feeling better about things soon.

 

[Tori_W_22]

On 6/3/2022 at 5:57 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Just potentially to help with your sanity, I'm doing a deep dive into fixing mine.  I have been using them for 5+ years or something and I have worked through a lot of setup issues.  Here's my tips/tricks/methods and please feel free to post there or DM to ask me anything you need about fixing the issues you specifically are experiencing.
 

 

 

I'll read through everything up above, but i just want to note that the Otos probably want to be slightly cooler temp.  That may be one factor, the other is usually nitrates (or any of your nitrogen cycle water parameters) as well as aeration.  Cooler water increases oxygenation as well, which helps the smaller species out.  Finally, with otos, it's almost always going to be a food issue, occurring slowly over time.  Your hillstream loaches are also going to enjoy cooler temperatures and higher flow than the rest of the tank stocking.  If you could, I'd put the otos and loaches with your white clouds in a "cooler" tank (70-74 degrees or so).

 

The biggest thing is just knowing how the fish are kept before they get to you.  We all feel bad for all the fix in the big box store, but honestly, every one of my fish if from a petco/petsmart because that is all we have here.  I totally understand the frustration and I ask about bettas source just to try to understand how much of a "risk" it is where you would be getting the fish in to your care severely stressed or suffering.  They get into your care, try to be recuperated, but it's ultimately a matter of time in some cases.  If you want to keep a betta, perhaps the local shop keeps them better and does QT with them effectively for diseases.  You should be able to ask the shop about how they care for them.  Second to that, I would recommend aquahuna for a betta and plan to get one their myself (or a ram!).
 

How are they during feeding?  What do you feed them with?  It might be difficult for them to eat some foods due to their size (smaller feedings, 2-3x per day may solve that) as well as something like a flake food or powder food might be easier for them to ingest.  The Xtreme nano pellets might be perfect, but I recommend turning off the filter for 15-20 minutes when feeding because of the skimmer on the tidal.
 

So they might have an issue with the betta bug bites.  Do they seem to eat them easily enough?  I'd definitely push towards feeding them 2x a day minimum for nano type fish.

 

I'm not sure what this means.  Every 3-4 months?

 

Right away I think a few things should happen.  This is to get the tanks to "reset" so to speak so we can track down what exactly is going on. 

1. 50% water change on every tank for the next 3-5 days.  If nitrates are above 20 ppm, change water again the following 24 hours.  If Nitrates are below 40, you might lower the volume to 30% every day until the nitrates drop below 20 ppm.  Ultimately, we want to keep these at a max of 20, but it's going to usually fluctuate between 20-40 depending on a variety of factors.

2. Weekly gravel vac on every tank.  Even if you just top off a tank or something, if it looks like there's 40+ ppm nitrates weekly, gravel vac weekly and try to get the waste out of the water column.  If you have nitrates at 10 ppm, then you might gravel vac every other week. This is going to depend on tank bioload and how much is being fed.

3.  After every tank is given 50% wc today/tomorrow, I would dose salt and then offer flake food an hour later.  Some fish are thin/struggling and it might be a vitamin shot so to speak to get them going in the right direction.

 

There's a very awesome video on how to get through the issues you're going through.  Ultimately I think your fish will do a lot better once things start to improve. I don't think this is something that can't be recovered from. There is hope!  The post you were asking about mentioned "not doing gravel vacs" and ultimately it was because of the type of substrate in those tanks and because the mulm/waste is absorbed into the soil substrate to provide the nutrition for root feeding plants.

As far as it comes to a regime for caring for my tanks, this is what I do in mine:

Once a week, I test every tank for water parameters.  I am doing this weekly (sometimes multiple times a week) because I am having water hardness issues and trying to get plants to take hold.  It's been a fight!

Once a week I will gravel vac lightly, this is just to remove waste from the tank in areas where I know there's going to be fish laying and a LOT of waste in those spots.  I have some clown plecos too that leave a lot of waste and it needs to be removed so I can tell if my corydoras are eating or not.  This takes no more than 5-10 minutes on my tanks (for both tanks).  The only thing that takes time is moving from tank to tank and moving the bucket/stool.  On days where I gravel vac I will also scrape the front glass for algae. You can scrape all sides of the tank, but only the front is really critical to enjoyment.  In tanks with otos, I only scrape the front glass.  If water parameters test ok, the tank "looks fine" I might skip the gravel vac and just change water only.  Gravel vac at minimum is every 2 weeks.

Once a week I change 30-50% of the water.

Once a month, I deep clean the filter, impeller, intake, and pump housing.

Once a month I will clean the lid, light, and try to clean the front glass off from water spots.

I will be watching that tidal video and getting back to you! 
 

During feeding the white clouds used to be voracious and attacked it. Since they’ve been losing weight they are dull and barely seem interested in the food. The foods are flakes and I “crumble” then a little before I put them in the tank. I will definitely increase feedings to twice a day and see if that makes a difference. 
 

And yes, before I was barely gravel vacuuming. I now see the errors of my ways. It wasn’t out of laziness, it was because I thought I was gong to over do it… now I know. 
 

I did 50% water changes and gravel vacuumed all of my tanks. The water is testing 10ppm nitrates in my 55g tank. The white cloud tank and the platy tank are still reading 20ppm nitrates. I will do aquarium salt in with the white clouds tomorrow after their next water change. 
 

Moving forward I will definitely be changing my maintenance schedule. Thank you! 

[nabokovfan87]

On 6/3/2022 at 6:39 PM, Tori_W_22 said:

I did 50% water changes and gravel vacuumed all of my tanks. The water is testing 10ppm nitrates in my 55g tank.

Awesome!  That is a great thing to see and hopefully all of the fish "perk up" over the next couple of days with the adjustments.

[Brian]

So sorry.   I will start by acknowledging I have not read all the responses.  So if I’m repeating others I apologize.

Stock?  Are you purchasing all or most of your stock from the same place?  Or when this all started did you get live stock from someplace new?  I’m just wondering if the animals you are purchasing and the supplier are the problem.  
Food?  Do you use the same foods on all the tanks?  Could some of the foods be contaminated?  
Stress?  So much of what kills are fish can be traced back to stress.  Fish can carry a lot of nasty things that their immune system can keep in check until we stress the animals.
Electrical current leak? 
There is also a high possibility that you have more than one problem/issue.  So while looking for that “oh ya” moment we should be looking for 2, 3 or maybe 4.

Do you cross contaminate?  Nets, hands, water hose-pythons, mag float…. Anything?
 Poisoning?  Hand sanitizer?  Air freshener?  
just some thoughts 

Good Luck 

[Brian]

Oh I forgot….  Have you contacted local water company, or at least tested it prior to putting it in the aquarium?