First loss :(

[drawnitsud]

So, this is a bummer, but one of the five Corys that we got last Wednesday is dead. My oldest daughter found the unfortunate fish laying at the bottom. It looked really pale and like it had some kind of wound on the side. I'll post pictures below. I removed it and we buried it in our backyard. I then immediately tested the water and even after a couple days straight of about 20% water changes (going to perform one again today), the nitrites are in the 2.0 ppm scale and the nitrates are around 20 ppm (anyone else have trouble comparing the colors? going to upload these pics too in case I read them wrong... pH of 7.2). I fed the corys two sinking wafers two days ago and then today I soaked and fed them some Tetra tropical flakes and one sinking wafer. Amazon messed up my bug bite/ hikari mini wafer order which was supposed to arrive yesterday, so I figured I needed to get them something, I figured. As for behavior, they all seemed to be getting along really well! 

I read somewhere that Corys don't like sharp gravel and can get hurt by it. My LFS who sold me both, gave me the https://www.petsmart.com/fish/decor-gravel-and-substrate/aquarium-substrate/caribsea-eco-complete-planted-aquarium-substrate-5081856.html (I couldn't find the link through my LFS so I found it here). And they are Peppered Corys. Could this have been from the substrate? I can move the Peppereds into a 10 gallon tank I use for quarantine which has no substrate if its needed.

Let me know if more information is needed. Thank you

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Hi @drawnitsud. I'm very sorry for your loss. No, I doubt it was the substrate. I personally don't see injury in the picture I think I see "burn". You should have 0 ammonia (I see you do) and also 0 Nitrite- I suspect they might have died from poisoning from water parameters. How old is your tank?

Corycats do like sand to sift around in and some will try it on harder substrates but generally you're going to see it (injuries) on their barbels first (near their mouth). 

Edited May 30, 2022 by xXInkedPhoenixX

[Colu]

In the meantime you want to be doing is daily testing and 50% daily water changes and add prime to help detoxify any nitrites till your nitirtes and ammonia stay at zero and your nitrates are a round 20ppm as it sound like your tank hasn't cycled

[drawnitsud]

Thanks @xXInkedPhoenixX that makes a lot of sense. It is a new aquarium. I have had the plants in for two weeks and had the tank cycled. There was no ammonia or nitrites and a small amount of nitrates. LFS said it should be good to go. Seems like two days after the Corys came in, the nitrites and nitrates spiked. 

So if it is the water parameters, I have two other 10 gallon tanks. A quarantine tank that has nothing in it but a rock decoration (and sponge filter) or a 3mo tank with 3 platys, 7 neon tetras and 3 mystery snails. It has been running smoothly for a while. Should I move them to one of those until the nitrites get under control?

On 5/29/2022 at 7:47 PM, Colu said:

In the meantime you want to be doing is daily testing and 50% daily water changes and add prime to help detoxify any nitrites till your nitirtes and ammonia stay at zero and your nitrates are a round 20ppm as it sound like your tank hasn't cycled

Okay, will do! Thank you

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

You can move them (I'd only put them in the cycled tank but if they're sick you are going to risk making your established tank sick). Your tank might be having a cycle wobble as it is very new. What you are doing now is basically a fish in cycle. As @Colu stated- daily testing and water changes until things are back to normal. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 5/29/2022 at 5:37 PM, drawnitsud said:

And they are Peppered Corys. Could this have been from the substrate?

 

On 5/29/2022 at 5:43 PM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

I'm very sorry for your loss. No, I doubt it was the substrate. I personally don't see injury in the picture I think I see "burn". You should have 0 ammonia (I see you do) and also 0 Nitrite- I suspect they might have died from poisoning from water parameters. How old is your tank?

A lot of planted substrates unfortunately leech a massive amount of ammonia.  The corys being on the bottom get the worst of it 😕 .  It happens, unfortunately.  If you can I would immediately move the fish to a tank with something else for substrate and perform water changes until the tank cycles and is stable.  The ammonia itself needs to be 0, nitrites need to be 0.

In a "worst case" scenario, put them into a bucked with an airstone and change water out daily.  Some salt might also help them, high oxygen, water at around 73 degrees will as well (slightly more oxygenation).  Keep an eye on their kills and breathing rate, it should normalize when they are doing "ok".

 

 

On 5/29/2022 at 5:47 PM, Colu said:

In the meantime you want to be doing is daily testing and 50% daily water changes and add prime to help detoxify any nitrites till your nitirtes and ammonia stay at zero and your nitrates are a round 20ppm as it sound like your tank hasn't cycled

This is a great way to handle it.  I generally don't rely on prime to detoxify water parameters in this capacity.  It's easier for me just to move the fish to their own space and fix the environment. 

If you do remove all the fish in the tank, you can perform daily 75-90% water changes without issue.  This will remove the ammonia that is leeching as well and give the tank a quicker chance to stabilize.

As a sidenote. The gravel substrate is fine for corys. Smooth river pebbles will be a little easier for them, but they tend to dig to get food. If it's difficult to dig, that's when they get issues and damage (thank you to Rachel O'Leary for that little tip).

I have kept my pandas on basically every kind of substrate.  If you have something finer that keeps the food up top, that's best.  A lot of the big box stores will sell "fine gravel" and call it sand.  Works well too.

[Brian]

So sorry…. 
l I have kept Corydoras on everything from sand to river gravel….    I hate vacuuming sand…. Again sorry 

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@nabokovfan87 is right about planting substrate leaching material into the water column especially when it's really new- this tends to disipate greatly as the tank ages (which is why many people have to fertilize). The substrate generally won't be a physical problem (to clarify what I said before- I know nabo knows this but making sure you know this @drawnitsud).

Don't despair- any of the offered advice WILL work- it's just what you are comfortable with. I've done accidental fish in cycles many times and once I knew what was going on I had no losses with diligent water changes and parameter monitoring. Moving them when you have other cycled tanks is always a great option until you get things stabilized in the display- it's all what you are able to do- you are the only one in the situation and know what kind of time and effort you are able to put forth. 

[drawnitsud]

Thank you all for the help 😊 you all rock. I'm going to try and keep them in and I just did a 50% WC and added Prime to try and detox the nitrites. I would have moved them to the community tank but honestly I'm nervous about throwing that tank out of balance. It's fairly full and thriving so I don't want to press my luck being new to it and all. 

Ill update the thread as I continue to do as I did today. Thanks again!

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Crossing fingers and toes for you. Be diligent and they'll make it through  you can do this!

[nabokovfan87]

Sidenote. I would like to know how you enjoy the peppers! I am very much wanting some these days.

[drawnitsud]

So I re-tested the water today and it looks like the numbers for the nitrites came down slightly (yay). But not nearly enough (boo). So, I did another 50% water change. But as long as we are making progress and the Peppereds are okay, then I don't mind. The all survived the night and were super active when I went to check on them this morning. I finally got their food in today (bug bites and spirulina tabs) so I fed them a bit of bug bites. They found the bites surprisingly quickly and munched happily for a while. 

On 5/29/2022 at 11:18 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Sidenote. I would like to know how you enjoy the peppers! I am very much wanting some these days.

Well, these are my first Corys, so I didn't know what to expect, but my kids and I are big fans. Even with the dark substrate, they are noticeable and they are really active. Definitely recommend

Edited May 31, 2022 by drawnitsud
spelling :)

[nabokovfan87]

On 5/30/2022 at 10:35 PM, drawnitsud said:

So I re-tested the water today and it looks like the numbers for the nitrites came down slightly (yay). But not nearly enough (boo). So, I did another 50% water change. But as long as we are making progress and the Peppereds are okay, then I don't mind. The all survived the night and were super active when I went to check on them this morning. I finally got their food in today (bug bites and spirulina tabs) so I fed them a bit of bug bites. They found the bites surprisingly quickly and munched happily for a while. 

Out of curiosity, what was the ppm?  If it is above 20, I'd say keep doing daily 50% changes.
Did you happen to check nitrites and ammonia?

I'm really excited to hear that about the corys. I love my pandas! They are such unique, fun little fish.  I'll end up making a video and adding some lofi. LOL.  There's a reason I think it's so easy for everyone to recommend corys here, and it's not just because of how much they love tacos.

[drawnitsud]

On 5/31/2022 at 12:38 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

Out of curiosity, what was the ppm?  If it is above 20, I'd say keep doing daily 50% changes.
Did you happen to check nitrites and ammonia?

I'm really excited to hear that about the corys. I love my pandas! They are such unique, fun little fish.  I'll end up making a video and adding some lofi. LOL.  There's a reason I think it's so easy for everyone to recommend corys here, and it's not just because of how much they love tacos.

@nabokovfan87 I did test all three. I had no ammonia, ~2 ppm nitrites and ~20 ppm nitrates. I just tested again today and here are the results. To me, they look a bit lighter than they have the last few days (nitrites/ nitrates) but since it has a brighter quality, it's hard for me to truly tell. The nitrites look closer to 1 ppm now and the nitrates look closer to 10 ppm. But that might just be wishful thinking. 

I figured I would do another 50% WC and since its been 48 hours, another dose of Prime to de-toxify the nitrites. Or is this stressing the poor Peppereds too much?

[nabokovfan87]

Nitrites are just crazy high.  From your tap, 0 nitrites/nitrates?

I would change water.  How long has it been since last WC?

On 5/31/2022 at 4:26 PM, drawnitsud said:

Or is this stressing the poor Peppereds too much?

They are going to be MUCH happier and suffer less long term damage if they are removed from the tank while this is being fixed. It also lets you disturb the substrate, gravel vac, 90% WC, etc. 

Because it's liquid tests, there's a margin for error, just make sure you're shaking very well whatever bottle needs to be shaken.

Honestly, even in a 5G tub or something for 3-4 days, you'll have it resolved and the fish won't see nearly as much stress as they are right now.
 

 

Edited May 31, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[drawnitsud]

On 5/31/2022 at 6:37 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Nitrites are just crazy high.  From your tap, 0 nitrites/nitrates?

I would change water.  How long has it been since last WC?

They are going to be MUCH happier and suffer less long term damage if they are removed from the tank while this is being fixed. It also lets you disturb the substrate, gravel vac, 90% WC, etc. 

Because it's liquid tests, there's a margin for error, just make sure you're shaking very well whatever bottle needs to be shaken.

Honestly, even in a 5G tub or something for 3-4 days, you'll have it resolved and the fish won't see nearly as much stress as they are right now.
 

 

Okay, thanks, I am going to move them. I have a 10 gallon quarantine tank that has nothing in it currently but a sponge filter. But I will do that because I think you or whomever pointed out that the substrate is leeching ammonia. Need to get it under control.  

[nabokovfan87]

They will appreciate an extra airstone. 72-74 water, and then a little bit of salt if you have it will help too.

Cory's recommendation is just over 3 TBSP per 10G

https://www.aquariumcoop.com/blogs/aquarium/aquarium-salt-for-sick-fish

For high nitrates it just sort of helps them to recover.

I would specifically treat this like an acclimation move as well. Take a little bit of water in a specimen container move the fish into the container.  Then slowly add water from the QT tank until the holding container has doubled in volume.  Drain half the water off, repeat that process, then move them to the QT tank and top off with fresh water.

Edited June 1, 2022 by nabokovfan87
Clarity

[drawnitsud]

On 5/31/2022 at 7:04 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

They will appreciate an extra airstone. 72-74 water, and then a little bit of salt if you have it will help too.

Cory's recommendation is just over 3 TBSP per 10G

https://www.aquariumcoop.com/blogs/aquarium/aquarium-salt-for-sick-fish

For high nitrates it just sort of helps them to recover.

I would specifically treat this like an acclimation move as well. Take a little bit of water in a specimen container move the fish into the container.  Then slowly add water from the QT tank until the holding container has doubled in volume.  Drain half the water off, repeat that process, then move them to the QT tank and top off with fresh water.

Got it going right now. Those little buggers are fast though. Took me a minute to get them into the net 😂. I'll add salt, too. Thanks for all your help

[nabokovfan87]

Oh they definitely prefer the hand method for netting 🙂 .  Such a cool little fish!

Cory definitely has some fish catching skills

 

Edited June 1, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[drawnitsud]

Okay, great news. The 29gallon has recovered. The ammonia and nitrites are at 0 and the nitrates are  at 10 ppm. Woohoo. Does everyone think it's safe to move the Peppereds back in? They seem a little bored in the quarantine tank, honestly. It has no substrate and only a decoration. I think they'd love to get back in with spiderwood and substrate 😄

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

I might wait another day and test one more time just to be sure we are stable, then yes absolutely add them but I'd still keep an eye on the water parameters. Any time you add something to the tank (even though they were already in there prior) can cause things to wobble a bit.

Congrats on getting it under control!!

[drawnitsud]

On 6/6/2022 at 9:34 AM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

I might wait another day and test one more time just to be sure we are stable, then yes absolutely add them but I'd still keep an eye on the water parameters. Any time you add something to the tank (even though they were already in there prior) can cause things to wobble a bit.

Congrats on getting it under control!!

I actually did tests on Friday and Sunday and had the same results. So I ended up putting them back in their home Sunday evening! They SEEM so much happier. Every time I checked on them in the 10 gallon quarantine, they were hardly swimming around and didn't seem to care for the bare bottom. 

Since adding them to the 29, they are exploring, poking around the substrate, hanging out on the spider wood and generally playing in the Amazon Sword. I'm no fish psychologist 🙂 but to me they seem way happier! 

Edited June 6, 2022 by drawnitsud
Spelling

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Perfect!! Just keep an eye on the tank and their behavior, you seem to be over the hump!