Pea puffers and snails

[Karen B.]

Greetings!

I am slowly building up a 10 gallons to house 3-4 pea puffers.

However, to be sure I have the right ratio (1m, 2-3f), I will be buying 6 juveniles at the same times (to quarantine together, etc).

For the past month, I have been gathering snails (bladder snails and ramhorns) in my 2 community tanks and would put them in a 5g bucket.

At first it was heater and had a sponge filter but I had to use them for an unexpected fry tank. Then I got sick and while I would feed them pellets every 2-3 days, and give them plenty of floating plants/catappa leaves, I neglected the WC.

Today I did a 100% WC because the smell was absolutely disgusting. And I was surprised at what I found - while in my aquarium I have a lot more ramhorns snails, they are pretty much all dead in my bucket. The bladder snails are huge and thriving.

Do bladder snails eat ramhorns or it’s most likely the neglect of the WC that killed them?

Should I leave the dead snails in so others can feed on their shells to get calcium? (I do add calcium blocks too)

What are the favorite snails for pea puffers? I would think ramhorns as they are smaller?

Do you count or limit the number of snails you feed them (if so, how many per fish) or you just throw a bunch in?

Thank you!

[Jennifer V]

In my experience, ramshorn snails are more sensitive to water conditions than bladder snails so that could explain the die off. The bladder snails will eat the remnants of the ramshorn snails but they won't eat the shells. 

I don't think peas have a preference as far as snails. Food is food! I personally like feeding mine crushed ramshorn snails because they are meatier but crushed bladder snails work just as well. You just need to add more of them because they are smaller. 

I limit the amount of snails my peas get. They will eat until they explode! On more than one occasion in the beginning, I had a couple of them eat so much they had to rest until they digested. 

I have four peas, and they get either roughly four crushed bladder snails or two ramshorn snails (depending on snail size) at a time, but my peas are older than yours will be so you might want to feed less to start. Just watch until they all have full bellies and remove the rest that's in the tank. 

The reason I crush the snails is it's easier for the peas to get to the meat. They'll only eat what they can reach. With the snail shells still in tact, there will be meat leftover in the shell the peas can't get to so the half eaten snail will sit in your tank. 

[Spewing_nonsense_]

On 3/12/2022 at 9:15 AM, Jennifer V said:

The reason I crush the snails is it's easier for the peas to get to the meat. They'll only eat what they can reach. With the snail shells still in tact, there will be meat leftover in the shell the peas can't get to so the half eaten snail will sit in your tank. 

How do you crush the snails?

[Odd Duck]

Ramshorns are definitely more sensitive to poor conditions than bladder snails.  I suspect you had a die off and the rams started dying, then a bigger die off, and a cascade of die offs.  Bladder snails are tougher and that’s why more survived.  My peas like bladders better, but they like rams just fine, too.  I deliberately started colonies of rams, bladders, ponds, and MTS in my pea puffer tank before introducing the fish.  They appear to be fairly self sustaining now.  They always have plump bellies when I go to feed, so they are getting minimal additional food now.  I’m not sure how many are in there now since they don’t reliably come for feeding anymore and the tank is very densely planted to the point I need to thin it out.  🤷🏻‍♀️ 

I also have a scud refugium in that tank which theoretically will indefinitely supply scuds for snacking.  I can’t tell how many it supplies but I do see scuds in the container when I check the tank.  They still get offered either blackworms, whiteworms, or Grindal worms at least 2-3 times a week just because they like them and for variety in their diet.  I don’t know if a 10 gallon is big enough to maintain sufficient cultures for a constant supply.  The 20 long wasn’t enough for 8 peas, but the 29 G seems to be since I added the MTS to the 29 that I didn’t have in the 20 long (same square footage, only difference is the MTS and height of the tank, black sand vs. pool sand).

[Jennifer V]

On 3/12/2022 at 8:07 AM, Spewing_nonsense_ said:

How do you crush the snails?

I make my wife do it. She either uses tweezers or her fingers. Sadly, it's not the most amazing part of being a fish keeper and certainly not something I enjoy at all. I would cry if I had to do it myself. We started doing it upon getting the recommendation from other pea puffer keepers and it seems to be a better way for the little murder beans to get their food. 

[Torrey]

On 3/12/2022 at 10:14 AM, Jennifer V said:

I make my wife do it. She either uses tweezers or her fingers. Sadly, it's not the most amazing part of being a fish keeper and certainly not something I enjoy at all. I would cry if I had to do it myself. We started doing it upon getting the recommendation from other pea puffer keepers and it seems to be a better way for the little murder beans to get their food. 

 

On 3/12/2022 at 9:51 AM, Odd Duck said:

Ramshorns are definitely more sensitive to poor conditions than bladder snails.  I suspect you had a die off and the rams started dying, then a bigger die off, and a cascade of die offs.  Bladder snails are tougher and that’s why more survived.  My peas like bladders better, but they like rams just fine, too.  I deliberately started colonies of rams, bladders, ponds, and MTS in my pea puffer tank before introducing the fish.  They appear to be fairly self sustaining now.  They always have plump bellies when I go to feed, so they are getting minimal additional food now.  I’m not sure how many are in there now since they don’t reliably come for feeding anymore and the tank is very densely planted to the point I need to thin it out.  🤷🏻‍♀️ 

I also have a scud refugium in that tank which theoretically will indefinitely supply scuds for snacking.  I can’t tell how many it supplies but I do see scuds in the container when I check the tank.  They still get offered either blackworms, whiteworms, or Grindal worms at least 2-3 times a week just because they like them and for variety in their diet.  I don’t know if a 10 gallon is big enough to maintain sufficient cultures for a constant supply.  The 20 long wasn’t enough for 8 peas, but the 29 G seems to be since I added the MTS to the 29 that I didn’t have in the 20 long (same square footage, only difference is the MTS and height of the tank, black sand vs. pool sand).

Most fishkeepers I know have avoided the gluttony issue by ensuring the tank was already well seeded before adding their murder beans.

Most animals, especially if they encounter food insecurity at a young age, will overeat.

On the other hand, even animals that experienced extreme food insecurity, if they are moved into an already established environment with plenty of food just wandering about, will be too nervous to overeat in the first 72 hours and after 72 hours will adjust to the idea of permanent food supply.

@Spewing_nonsense_ I would honestly recommend heavily seeding the new tank: Scuds, MTS, pond, bladder, and blackworms. Let them get established and a few generations in before buying the peas. Get your plants established, and your water parameters steady. 

Puffers need hard shells to bite for oral hygiene, so imo it's easier to set up a proper habitat with a steady food supply than to have to count food for them... because frequently that can result in a catastrophe down the road.

Just my experience, and what I have observed in my friends who raise puffers smaller than Ladybird and Murphy... 

[Jennifer V]

On 3/12/2022 at 10:04 PM, Torrey said:

 

Most fishkeepers I know have avoided the gluttony issue by ensuring the tank was already well seeded before adding their murder beans.

Most animals, especially if they encounter food insecurity at a young age, will overeat.

On the other hand, even animals that experienced extreme food insecurity, if they are moved into an already established environment with plenty of food just wandering about, will be too nervous to overeat in the first 72 hours and after 72 hours will adjust to the idea of permanent food supply.

@Spewing_nonsense_ I would honestly recommend heavily seeding the new tank: Scuds, MTS, pond, bladder, and blackworms. Let them get established and a few generations in before buying the peas. Get your plants established, and your water parameters steady. 

Puffers need hard shells to bite for oral hygiene, so imo it's easier to set up a proper habitat with a steady food supply than to have to count food for them... because frequently that can result in a catastrophe down the road.

Just my experience, and what I have observed in my friends who raise puffers smaller than Ladybird and Murphy... 

I made the newbie mistake of getting pea puffers as my first fish. I let my wife pick the fish for the tank because I had dictated every decision up to that point. Neither of us knew exactly what we were getting into even though we had done quite a bit of research beforehand. I think we thought fish are fish. Same needs, same care requirements. Thankfully, nothing catastrophic happened and we've learned a ton in the last year. I would do quite a few things differently had I known better. But we continue to try to be the best fish moms we can and adjust accordingly as we continue to develop and grow along with the peas. 

[Kirsten]

In my experience, all puffers, including pea puffers are highly intelligent and enjoy the thrill and puzzle of the hunt as much if not more than the food itself. So even if a pea puffer is stuffed full, it'll still have fun murdering every snail it can find with its clever eyeballs.

I stocked my pea puffer tank with trumpet snails (highly recommended, because they're a little less palatable than other kinds, can reproduce asexually, and they burrow in the substrate, which gives them a fighting chance), ramshorns, bladder snails for a few weeks before getting my puffer to help get their numbers established. But the puffer still eliminated them all within a couple weeks.

So now I harvest 8-10 small snails from all my other tanks to feed the puffer every couple days. I don't bother crushing them because I feel guilty enough sending these pretty ramshorns to their death, and because I always pray a couple will survive for at least a day or two to help eat up some of the puffer's leftovers and some of the algae on the walls. It's definitely the only tank in the house with enough algae to eat!