Listless and hiding female platy after having fry

[Carrie Ford]

One of my platys had fry a good 3 weeks ago.  Since that time she has been very listless and hiding or just laying on the bottom of the tank.  She'll come out once in awhile,  swim around,  eat, etc., then go back to hiding.  She definitely hasn't gotten pregnant again, the male has no interest in her, and she just doesn't look well compared to her previous look.  Any thoughts?

Oh, all water parametrs good an unchanged.  Ph 7, GH 8, KH 4, ammonia 0, nitrites 0, nitrates 0.  Temp 76-78.  

[Fish Folk]

Maybe dim the lights. I use black cupboard liner under my lights to filter / mute lighting, and calm fish.

Edited March 10, 2022 by Fish Folk

[RichNJ]

The same has happened to us nearly every time we've had a large platy birth (which is why I am searching here), and actually just this week again recently it happened again too.  She isn't doing too well after a few days.  My water is fine, have plenty of plants, but seems that the process beats them up after 2 or so batches of fries.  They will be listless, clamped fins, not eating well, sometimes flashing, laying down, etc.  Males even ignore them too.  All other fish in the tank don't care, and look normal, and just eat the fries they can find.

[PineSong]

On 3/9/2022 at 6:57 PM, Carrie Ford said:

One of my platys had fry a good 3 weeks ago.  Since that time she has been very listless and hiding or just laying on the bottom of the tank.  She'll come out once in awhile,  swim around,  eat, etc., then go back to hiding.  She definitely hasn't gotten pregnant again, the male has no interest in her, and she just doesn't look well compared to her previous look.  Any thoughts?

Oh, all water parametrs good an unchanged.  Ph 7, GH 8, KH 4, ammonia 0, nitrites 0, nitrates 0.  Temp 76-78.  

I've had this happen at least twice, and don't have any proven suggestions for you. I thought one time I had solved the problem by removing the female to a hospital tank where she gradually resumed some of her energy, but once I returned her to the main tank, she went back to low energy and died. This was a fish who had been thoroughly QT'd and treated with the meds trio plus Expel-P about nine months prior, so I do not think it was a contagious disease or accumulated parasites. In general I think high quality food like fresh or frozen BBS are very important after mom fish has babies.

[Vince C]

I had a similar situation happen with one of my guppies - and sadly it didn't recover either - I lost it after a couple of days of those symptoms. Hopefully you can save this one!

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

I would add some salt, livebearers do better with a little salt especially when stressed. Was she born in this tank or first gen in the tank? In general the generation you buy and put in the tank will not be as robust as the fry she just birthed. It is not unusual to lose female livebearers after their first birth in a new tank. Can you pull the male to give her a break? 

Although the water parameters are ok I would continue to do modest water changes, 20% or so regularly - q1-2 weeks, add some salt with each change not a lot just enough to leave a trace in the water. I would try to feed some live foods - baby brine, black worms, daphnia etc to get her prey drive going nothing like that wiggle to get a live bearer going again. The brine will help clean out her bowels which can be off after they have been squished by all those fry.

What is your gh and kh? they like very hard water. Is the white in the gravel/sand crushed coral? if so nevermind. I have experienced this as well and usually salt gets me through it but I would say it has been 60/40, 70/30 in terms of survival when they get like this.

[Hobbit]

My platys tend to get nervous and pale after they give birth. They hide for a week or so—and it makes all the other platys suspicious so they hide too! I lost one or two females at the start of my breeding project, but the ones I have now seem to recover just fine.

One thing you may want to watch out for is the males chasing them too much. I know you said the males have no interest in them, but do watch those males right after the females give birth and see if they’re chasing them to exhaustion. I’ve had some males that are very aggressive and will chase females “in heat” ruthlessly. Those males get booted from the broodstock. Only respectful males get lucky in this house!!

When my females go into hiding, I try to use live foods like bbs to encourage them to eat and swim around a bit.

[RichNJ]

So in my 20L planted livebearer tank (really about 15g of water after substrate, plants, etc), I target a dh 12 using Seachem Equilibrium, ph is generally 8-8.2, and nitrates about 25.

Other than Equilibrium, is salt still needed?  and how much given the 15g of water.  I've looked into the Seachem Brackish Water additive, which some folks call "livebearer salt."

[Hobbit]

You could certainly try salt. What’s your stocking level? She may be extra stressed if she’s giving birth in a really crowded tank. I think some platys are more easily stressed than others, just as a personality trait.

[RichNJ]

On 7/24/2022 at 12:07 PM, Hobbit said:

You could certainly try salt. What’s your stocking level? She may be extra stressed if she’s giving birth in a really crowded tank. I think some platys are more easily stressed than others, just as a personality trait.

in my 20L livebearer...i have the one 1 listless female platy, 2 near mature platy fry, 10 or so new platy fries, 3 balloon mollies, 3 guppies, 3 flagfish, 3 mystery snails, 2 nerite snails....i have anacharis plants throughout and some bacopa caroliniana, crypts, and some struggling microswords.

Nitrates about 25 consistently...nitrites 0, ammonia 0, ph about consistently 8-8.2, and dh 12 (~214ppm), and an always stable KH 80 ppm. 

so brackish salt?  Will it kill my plants or flagfish?  I think the snails and livebearer fish will like it.

[Hobbit]

If you do add salt, I’d add just a tiny bit to start with in case it bothers something. I’m not an expert so I can’t tell you for sure if it will hurt anything in that tank. But I’m also all about experimenting!

It doesn’t sound like the tank is too crowded. I wonder if some female platys have just been through a lot in their life before they even get to us, and giving birth takes too much of a toll on their already-stressed bodies. ☹️

[Guppysnail]

For what it’s worth since I don’t keep platies. However I keep guppies and experience this. ( 
In cows it’s fairly common for them to be extremely depleted in calcium after birth because they gave it all to the developing calf and milk production. This causes listlessness and often inability to even get up and can progress to heart stopping. Treatment is mass calcium forcefeed and I’ve heard injections. 
 

I applied that to guppies and found that adding things like wondershell and spirulina calcium nano banquet blocks and repashy with added liquid calcium even though my water is hard it does seem to lessen the recovery time after birth for guppies. 

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

Aquarium or reef salt is what you want. Some people use the salt that is used for water softeners but I stick to reef salt since it also has some other elements including calcium. I would start with 1/2-1 tablespoon for the 15 gallons and seeing how that goes. Some of the plants may not like it but you can always water change it out after the platy recovers. 

I think it is just a busy tank and the water volume and space is low in a 15 g. She is probably stressed from both the birth and the activity of the tank. 

Chemical additives especially in a small tank can be problematic. I think you are doing the right testing but those concentrations can vary and are not static. This is why many of us shy away from the chemicals and use things like crushed coral and aragonite. If things level out with your platys stay the course and keep using your additives. If they don't think about adding a bag of crushed coral to your filter. 

Best of luck. I think you're doing the right things we just all have different styles of fish keeping. 

[RichNJ]

On 7/25/2022 at 5:46 PM, Beardedbillygoat1975 said:

Aquarium or reef salt is what you want. Some people use the salt that is used for water softeners but I stick to reef salt since it also has some other elements including calcium. I would start with 1/2-1 tablespoon for the 15 gallons and seeing how that goes. Some of the plants may not like it but you can always water change it out after the platy recovers. 

I think it is just a busy tank and the water volume and space is low in a 15 g. She is probably stressed from both the birth and the activity of the tank. 

Chemical additives especially in a small tank can be problematic. I think you are doing the right testing but those concentrations can vary and are not static. This is why many of us shy away from the chemicals and use things like crushed coral and aragonite. If things level out with your platys stay the course and keep using your additives. If they don't think about adding a bag of crushed coral to your filter. 

Best of luck. I think you're doing the right things we just all have different styles of fish keeping. 

Thanks...actually this reminded me of one additional variable I didn't mention.  We do have a water softer (with a carbon filter to scrub out chlorine, etc.), and so this softened water goes into all my tanks (I have the 20L livebearer from above, and also a 55g tetra/angle fish tank, a 5g betta, and a 9g African dwarf frog).  I don't bypass the system or use the hose outside so that new water during water changes goes through the water heater (so I can balance temps easily).  The resulting sodium content in the treated water is supposed to be miniscule, but its there nonetheless.

I add Equilibrium with all water changes (plus Prime) and target 12dh in the livebearer and 6dh in the others (through trial and error I've got it down to 1 tsp for the 6dh tanks and 2tsp for the 12dh per 5g of new water).  I never thought of Equilibrium as a chemical additive but more of a way to dissolve solid minerals into the water (although minerals are a type of chemical element).  Isn't that the same thing with crushed coral does (i.e., dissolve a solid into the water)??

 

[Guppysnail]

On 7/26/2022 at 8:16 AM, RichNJ said:

Thanks...actually this reminded me of one additional variable I didn't mention.  We do have a water softer (with a carbon filter to scrub out chlorine, etc.), and so this softened water goes into all my tanks (I have the 20L livebearer from above, and also a 55g tetra/angle fish tank, a 5g betta, and a 9g African dwarf frog).  I don't bypass the system or use the hose outside so that new water during water changes goes through the water heater (so I can balance temps easily).  The resulting sodium content in the treated water is supposed to be miniscule, but its there nonetheless.

I add Equilibrium with all water changes (plus Prime) and target 12dh in the livebearer and 6dh in the others (through trial and error I've got it down to 1 tsp for the 6dh tanks and 2tsp for the 12dh per 5g of new water).  I never thought of Equilibrium as a chemical additive but more of a way to dissolve solid minerals into the water (although minerals are a type of chemical element).  Isn't that the same thing with crushed coral does (i.e., dissolve a solid into the water)??

 

For my guppies even using more equilibrium than you are and wondershells my guppies had issues after birthing. When I bypassed my water softener but still used warm softened from the water heater but cold unsoftened my guppies started having less issues. I’m not good with the chemistry of water I can just tell you my kids had less issues.  

Edited July 26, 2022 by Guppysnail

[RyanNJ]

Out of curiosity are you guys using instant hot water heaters on the house. If so they need to be descaled. Changing Cold to hot water so quickly brings calcium deposits. I had in issue with mine and I switched to a adjustable water mixing valve at my fill location. Even using that though you still need to use a D scaler and yearly do a D scaling of the hot water heater if it’s a continuous on demand hot water heater.