Linear piston air pump questions

[Guppysnail]

I have looked at these vaguely before. I get to the part of running pvc and nix looking. My fish room is a converted bedroom but also a relax room and my dressing room next to it with tanks is also nicely done to my taste. I do not want pvc everywhere on my walls. Can I just run airline from  the pump and tack it with cable holders along the carpet edge?  I can drill an inconspicuous hole to go room to room if I don’t have to deal with pvc. I’m not very handy and hubby would spaz at the pvc eyesore. 
 

I just read a reply to someones post by @OnlyGenusCaps about 12 pumps being the magic number. I run 12 always 13-scrap scape may or may not be permanent random but not always if I am running :  occasional grow out qt, hatching brine shrimp,  1 breeder box, 2 breeder boxes -someone shoot me if I ever feel I need 3 breeder boxes at once. I have ZERO plans of adding to my fishroom. Would eventually like to not need the two grow outs in my dressing room but not happening in the foreseeable future (guppies and BN pleco always to many) I  was running all nano pumps but recently purchased 2 of the new coop pumps. Plugs are an issue for me. I have 2 power strips loaded in every single socket as well as messy cable monsters. I like the battery backups I have on all but it is not a necessity hubby bought me a generator just for the fish. Having only one plug to deal with would be great in a long power outage but less convenient in a short one. 

My fellow fish nerms please offer guidance. Thanks for your time. 
 

edit to add. I have solid ceilings not drop ceiling and modifying cutting into walls is not an option. 

Edited March 6, 2022 by Guppysnail

[OnlyGenusCaps]

Unfortunately, I can offer no advice on running a linear piston air pump straight into various airlines.  I put in a pvc loop.  Theoretically, I suppose you could take the diameter of flex tubing that fits straight onto the pump and run that low, or though a wall, and branch from there.  I suppose if you had a hidden location that was central, you could run it into a mini pvc loop just a few feet around, and branch off of that like a manifold to the various tanks.  I think it will depend on the layout of your space and what you, or your spouse's tolerances are for pvc versus a web of airline tubing. 

One thing you might do is to figure out if there are in folks with fish rooms you like the look of, or are similar to your space, on the You Tubes, and try to figure out how they have hidden equipment. 

Sorry, I can't be more helpful. 

[Guppysnail]

On 3/5/2022 at 9:53 PM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

Unfortunately, I can offer no advice on running a linear piston air pump straight into various airlines.  I put in a pvc loop.  Theoretically, I suppose you could take the diameter of flex tubing that fits straight onto the pump and run that low, or though a wall, and branch from there.  I suppose if you had a hidden location that was central, you could run it into a mini pvc loop just a few feet around, and branch off of that like a manifold to the various tanks.  I think it will depend on the layout of your space and what you, or your spouse's tolerances are for pvc versus a web of airline tubing. 

One thing you might do is to figure out if there are in folks with fish rooms you like the look of, or are similar to your space, on the You Tubes, and try to figure out how they have hidden equipment. 

Sorry, I can't be more helpful. 

Zero pvc tolerance. There would be no web. The pump would sit against a wall the airline running along all base boards so you could not see it to much. Then behind each tank it would go up the wall secured to the wall then drop into the tank. Sadly I do not even know what a pvc loop is 😐. When I say not very handy I mean not at all.

This is theory though as I’m not real clear on the piston pump setup

[OnlyGenusCaps]

Sorry, I should have elaborated.  I suspect a PVC loop is quite specific to this situation, and not something to toss out like it is common knowledge. That's my brain fart.

A PVC loop is really just what it sounds like; it is a looped connection of pvc pipe.  The idea is that if you have a straight pipe of pvc running out from your pump, then as the air is pulled off the line from close valves, it decreases the pressure available to those valves further down the line.  With a loop this is minimized because the line can more easily equilibrate the pressure throughout.  At least, that's the idea.

I suspect you'll need to get a bit creative to incorporate a pump like this into your space.  In the end, it might not be worth it for you; if it disrupts an enjoyable environment.  As I now work to improve the aesthetics of where I have my tanks, I have a better appreciation for how important that can be to the enjoyment of what is actually in the tanks. 

I'm glad you have a space you like so much!  I aspire to do just that. 

[Guppysnail]

On 3/5/2022 at 10:15 PM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

Sorry, I should have elaborated.  I suspect a PVC loop is quite specific to this situation, and not something to toss out like it is common knowledge. That's my brain fart.

A PVC loop is really just what it sounds like; it is a looped connection of pvc pipe.  The idea is that if you have a straight pipe of pvc running out from your pump, then as the air is pulled off the line from close valves, it decreases the pressure available to those valves further down the line.  With a loop this is minimized because the line can more easily equilibrate the pressure throughout.  At least, that's the idea.

I suspect you'll need to get a bit creative to incorporate a pump like this into your space.  In the end, it might not be worth it for you; if it disrupts an enjoyable environment.  As I now work to improve the aesthetics of where I have my tanks, I have a better appreciation for how important that can be to the enjoyment of what is actually in the tanks. 

I'm glad you have a space you like so much!  I aspire to do just that. 

Thank you. I’m thinking this may not be the way to go for me now that you explained it. I appreciate the breakdown. I thought I could just put an airline directly into the lp pump like you do the little diaphragm pumps and run a series of gang valves. It does not sound like that is a viable option. I will continue on my path to replacing the two nano pumps to each tank with the new coop pumps. I really like them.  Making the space an aesthetically pleasing space vs random tanks on random stands in random places has enhanced my hobby and undoing that added relaxation is not a direction I wish to go. 

[Kathy F]

I found some of the smaller linear piston air pump with an L tube (small L shaped black tube attached to either an 8 or 12 manifold (you the buyer choose which).    The Alita AL-15A and the AL-6A are the models that come with those options.   I have been looking at them because I have enough aquariums now that the ambient noise from so many pumps is starting to get annoying.  No clue if it can be done on the larger linear pumps.   I haven't bought any yet because my aquariums are all over the place and not centrally located but if you want to give one of the little pumps a try let me know how it goes.  If it goes well maybe, I'll use it as an excuse to start an aquarium rack.  

Edited March 6, 2022 by Kathy F

[StevesFishTanks]

You could use a multi valve manifold instead of running a pvc loop.

It would work but not as consistent pressure as a loop

[Guppysnail]

On 3/6/2022 at 2:00 AM, Kathy F said:

I found some of the smaller linear piston air pump with an L tube (small L shaped black tube attached to either an 8 or 12 manifold (you the buyer choose which).    The Alita AL-15A and the AL-6A are the models that come with those options.   I have been looking at them because I have enough aquariums now that the ambient noise from so many pumps is starting to get annoying.  No clue if it can be done on the larger linear pumps.   I haven't bought any yet because my aquariums are all over the place and not centrally located but if you want to give one of the little pumps a try let me know how it goes.  If it goes well maybe, I'll use it as an excuse to start an aquarium rack.  

I will look into them. The noise is a huge factor to my sanity. I’m running all nano pumps and 2 new coop pumps right now. The only noise I deal with is tricklingwater from outflows. I would be afraid other models are loud and/or are diaphragm the way others are described in the coop description of their model. I’ll let you know if I get please let me know if you get one before I decide. 

[Odd Duck]

My Alita-15 came with a manifold to attach to the pump, that’s a 12 valve, I think.  I’d have to look.  I got it out to set it up the other day when one side of my tetra pump failed.  But I would have had to change all my airlines.  So I found my back up pump and went that way for now.  When I get converted to a fish room with the racks moved into the Offish, I will set up a loop.  The pump will be up high on top of one rack.  The PVC loop will be up high against the corner of the ceiling (planning on 1” PVC so I don’t have too much volume for the pump to fill) and haven’t decided yet on painting it, that’s a maybe.

If I do the gluing, it will probably get painted, because, well, purple glue on off-white pipe.  🤷🏻‍♀️  My hubby is more practiced with the glue, so if he helps (which is likely) off-white colored pipe next to off-white ceiling shouldn’t be so bad.  I plan to make 2 drop down manifolds (this old lady is not getting on a stepladder every time a valve needs adjusted), one behind each rack, so I will have the valves to the tanks in easy reach.  So I’ll have oversized (3/8”) silicone line running from the loop to the drop down manifolds.  The other tanks will just get regular airline drops from the loop.

I have some serious concerns about if the Alita-15 will have enough ooomph to run my entire fish room.  If I had bought it, I would have gone bigger but I won it in a raffle for $10.00.  🤷🏻‍♀️ My Tetra pump will run my current rack but I do have a horrible spider web of airlines now.  None of the tanks on the rack is deep, but the 3 tanks currently in the Offish are deeper tanks.  BUT, they all have double stacked ACO sponges so the airstone isn’t that deep in each tank (since ACO recommends you don’t drop the airstone deep in the sponge, just keep it at the normal position close to the top).

My goal is nice tidy airlines after the move.  Single lines dropping to the 20 high, the 29, and 2 lines to the 75.  Paired fat lines dropping to each rack manifold, then normal airlines running to each airstone.  But I’m also looking at switching to UG filters with matten foam as substrate on at least one more of the current rack tanks (none of the Low Row tanks are planned to get this conversion).  UG filters have 2 uplift tubes for best circulation and filtration.

With leaving ACO sponges in each tank with a UG until the mattens are ready, I’m looking at 20 airstones plus for the current rack (at least until the matten are fully up to speed, then those ACO sponges can be moved).  But I will intermittently be adding some double sponge filters to act as water “pumps” into floating fry bins as needed.  Then at least 5-7 more airstones when the Low Row moves to the Offish.  I still haven’t decided what’s going on the bottom shelf of the rack that will hold the Low Row tanks.

The more I think about it, the more I think I need 2 of the Alita-15’s or a bigger linear.  I guess I can always supplement with the Tetra pumps until I see how things go.

On 3/6/2022 at 4:27 AM, Guppysnail said:

I will look into them. The noise is a huge factor to my sanity. I’m running all nano pumps and 2 new coop pumps right now. The only noise I deal with is tricklingwater from outflows. I would be afraid other models are loud and/or are diaphragm the way others are described in the coop description of their model. I’ll let you know if I get please let me know if you get one before I decide. 

The Alita-15 I have is super quiet once there is some back pressure (valve manifold in place). Much quieter than the Tetra.  When it’s just sitting there running open with no manifold attached, it’s louder than the Tetra running with valves attached and only slightly louder than the Tetra running open.

[Guppysnail]

On 3/6/2022 at 5:42 AM, Odd Duck said:

My Alita-15 came with a manifold to attach to the pump, that’s a 12 valve, I think.  I’d have to look.  I got it out to set it up the other day when one side of my tetra pump failed.  But I would have had to change all my airlines.  So I found my back up pump and went that way for now.  When I get converted to a fish room with the racks moved into the Offish, I will set up a loop.  The pump will be up high on top of one rack.  The PVC loop will be up high against the corner of the ceiling (planning on 1” PVC so I don’t have too much volume for the pump to fill) and haven’t decided yet on painting it, that’s a maybe.

If I do the gluing, it will probably get painted, because, well, purple glue on off-white pipe.  🤷🏻‍♀️  My hubby is more practiced with the glue, so if he helps (which is likely) off-white colored pipe next to off-white ceiling shouldn’t be so bad.  I plan to make 2 drop down manifolds (this old lady is not getting on a stepladder every time a valve needs adjusted), one behind each rack, so I will have the valves to the tanks in easy reach.  So I’ll have oversized (3/8”) silicone line running from the loop to the drop down manifolds.  The other tanks will just get regular airline drops from the loop.

I have some serious concerns about if the Alita-15 will have enough ooomph to run my entire fish room.  If I had bought it, I would have gone bigger but I won it in a raffle for $10.00.  🤷🏻‍♀️ My Tetra pump will run my current rack but I do have a horrible spider web of airlines now.  None of the tanks on the rack is deep, but the 3 tanks currently in the Offish are deeper tanks.  BUT, they all have double stacked ACO sponges so the airstone isn’t that deep in each tank (since ACO recommends you don’t drop the airstone deep in the sponge, just keep it at the normal position close to the top).

My goal is nice tidy airlines after the move.  Single lines dropping to the 20 high, the 29, and 2 lines to the 75.  Paired fat lines dropping to each rack manifold, then normal airlines running to each airstone.  But I’m also looking at switching to UG filters with matten foam as substrate on at least one more of the current rack tanks (none of the Low Row tanks are planned to get this conversion).  UG filters have 2 uplift tubes for best circulation and filtration.

With leaving ACO sponges in each tank with a UG until the mattens are ready, I’m looking at 20 airstones plus for the current rack (at least until the matten are fully up to speed, then those ACO sponges can be moved).  But I will intermittently be adding some double sponge filters to act as water “pumps” into floating fry bins as needed.  Then at least 5-7 more airstones when the Low Row moves to the Offish.  I still haven’t decided what’s going on the bottom shelf of the rack that will hold the Low Row tanks.

The more I think about it, the more I think I need 2 of the Alita-15’s or a bigger linear.  I guess I can always supplement with the Tetra pumps until I see how things go.

That sounds amazing! Looking forward to seeing it. I never thought about painting it so it does not look so awful.  Do you think I could run it around baseboards instead of overhead?

[Odd Duck]

On 3/6/2022 at 4:49 AM, Guppysnail said:

That sounds amazing! Looking forward to seeing it. I never thought about painting it so it does not look so awful.  Do you think I could run it around baseboards instead of overhead?

You absolutely can run a loop down low, but it has to cross over your doorway at some point or it isn’t a loop.  You can run just a manifold vs a loop and depending on how many tanks you’re running, that could work just fine.  At some point before I get to fish room status, I am going to check my current rack with 17 airstones on the Alita-15 to make certain it will more than run the rack.  If it won’t, I’ll need to make major adjustments to my plan.

Whichever linear pump I’m running it will be overhead for a couple main reasons.  First, it’s warmer up high and I’m hoping to take advantage of that to need minimal heaters in tanks.  I will have heaters in tanks, but they will be unplugged for shrimp tanks, and likely adjusted low enough so they aren’t doing anything unless we have the generator running during a power outage in the winter.  I hope that they will draw no electricity under normal circumstances since they won’t need to run except for a few select tanks.  Most tanks should stay around 76, I think, once they’re all gathered together.  I’ll still have Betta tanks that will need to be around 80.  Fish tanks will be on higher shelves, shrimp tanks lower (if I continue with shrimp).  Running the pump and air loop up top keeps the air going into tanks warmer so less need for electric to heat tanks.

The other main reason for air up top is reducing tank siphon risk and fewer check valves.  Check valves restrict air quite a bit.  Try blowing through those suckers yourself, you’ll see what I mean.  I will probably be using zip ties to hold airlines to valves since, . . . . Cats.  But there’s always that chance of one coming loose.  I’d rather have one come loose from the airstone/fitting, than one come loose from an air pump that’s below water level.  With zip ties holding airlines onto my main valves coming off manifolds up high, they would just dangle loose from the manifold and not risk siphoning a tank onto my floor and stranding fish high and dry (or in an inch of water).

Airpump and air loop up high also means it’s never at risk for filling with water if check valves fail.

Last, is that cords tend to go low and cords and airlines end up in a crazy spider web tangle.  I’m hoping airlines from above will help reduce that tangle.  I’m also going to wrangle cords much more definitively when I set things back up after the rack/tank shuffle into the Offish.

[Guppysnail]

On 3/6/2022 at 6:33 AM, Odd Duck said:

You absolutely can run a loop down low, but it has to cross over your doorway at some point or it isn’t a loop.  You can run just a manifold vs a loop and depending on how many tanks you’re running, that could work just fine.  At some point before I get to fish room status, I am going to check my current rack with 17 airstones on the Alita-15 to make certain it will more than run the rack.  If it won’t, I’ll need to make major adjustments to my plan.

Whichever linear pump I’m running it will be overhead for a couple main reasons.  First, it’s warmer up high and I’m hoping to take advantage of that to need minimal heaters in tanks.  I will have heaters in tanks, but they will be unplugged for shrimp tanks, and likely adjusted low enough so they aren’t doing anything unless we have the generator running during a power outage in the winter.  I hope that they will draw no electricity under normal circumstances since they won’t need to run except for a few select tanks.  Most tanks should stay around 76, I think, once they’re all gathered together.  I’ll still have Betta tanks that will need to be around 80.  Fish tanks will be on higher shelves, shrimp tanks lower (if I continue with shrimp).  Running the pump and air loop up top keeps the air going into tanks warmer so less need for electric to heat tanks.

The other main reason for air up top is reducing tank siphon risk and fewer check valves.  Check valves restrict air quite a bit.  Try blowing through those suckers yourself, you’ll see what I mean.  I will probably be using zip ties to hold airlines to valves since, . . . . Cats.  But there’s always that chance of one coming loose.  I’d rather have one come loose from the airstone/fitting, than one come loose from an air pump that’s below water level.  With zip ties holding airlines onto my main valves coming off manifolds up high, they would just dangle loose from the manifold and not risk siphoning a tank onto my floor and stranding fish high and dry (or in an inch of water).

Airpump and air loop up high also means it’s never at risk for filling with water if check valves fail.

Last, is that cords tend to go low and cords and airlines end up in a crazy spider web tangle.  I’m hoping airlines from above will help reduce that tangle.  I’m also going to wrangle cords much more definitively when I set things back up after the rack/tank shuffle into the Offish.

These are all great points. I was definitely thinking more along the manifold line and only running less than 20 lines was hoping it was powerful enough.  I always blow through my check valves (I forget which direction they should go ). They are tough. I had not thought about the cat factor as mine were seniors until I got the new kitten (ring neck parakeet). He attack’s EVERYTHING.  When I first read about the LP pump I thought the pvc was to run the airline through just to hold it in place 🤣 that’s mostly why I was thinking my hair brained scheme could work. With all this info and your mention of cats I now know this is not a good option for me,  if Spooky doesn’t pull the lines loose I’m certain it would be riddled with puncture holes from teeth and claws. Thanks. I hope you share photos of your design and build. 

Edited March 6, 2022 by Guppysnail

[gardenman]

All this talk of PVC got me wondering about using PEX instead of PVC. You can get a 100 foot coil of 1" PEX for under $75 at one site I've looked at (supplyhouse.com.) Given the current price of one inch PVC (around $9 for ten feet and more for fittings and adhesive) PEX might be a pretty neat alternative. Adding the air valves would be "interesting" at best, but nothing lots of silicone or another adhesive might not fix. You wouldn't need many fittings for PEX as you'd just uncoil it like a long hose. There would be no elbows or other hardline fittings needed to go around corners or up and down. You might be able to melt in the airline valve fittings. Heat them up using a torch and press them (or a metal pick type thingie) in place to make the hole. I've never heard of anyone using PEX in this type of an application, but I'm guessing it would be doable.  It would be a lot easier to take down and move to a new fish room should that need arise. You'd just roll it up and away you'd go. Can you drill PEX? I don't know. It could be a fun thing to experiment with though if you're building a new fish room. If you got good at adding the valves it might be a marketable product also. Seling premade loops with air valves preinstalled and ready to be added to a pump could be pretty neat. The buyer would just need to unroll and position the loop.

[Guppysnail]

On 3/6/2022 at 10:53 AM, gardenman said:

All this talk of PVC got me wondering about using PEX instead of PVC. You can get a 100 foot coil of 1" PEX for under $75 at one site I've looked at (supplyhouse.com.) Given the current price of one inch PVC (around $9 for ten feet and more for fittings and adhesive) PEX might be a pretty neat alternative. Adding the air valves would be "interesting" at best, but nothing lots of silicone or another adhesive might not fix. You wouldn't need many fittings for PEX as you'd just uncoil it like a long hose. There would be no elbows or other hardline fittings needed to go around corners or up and down. You might be able to melt in the airline valve fittings. Heat them up using a torch and press them (or a metal pick type thingie) in place to make the hole. I've never heard of anyone using PEX in this type of an application, but I'm guessing it would be doable.  It would be a lot easier to take down and move to a new fish room should that need arise. You'd just roll it up and away you'd go. Can you drill PEX? I don't know. It could be a fun thing to experiment with though if you're building a new fish room. If you got good at adding the valves it might be a marketable product also. Seling premade loops with air valves preinstalled and ready to be added to a pump could be pretty neat. The buyer would just need to unroll and position the loop.

This is fantastic and may just have placed the LP pump back in play for me.  I hope someone chimes in with ideas of how to drill this. 
since you are creative I am running the airline from the floor up securedto the wall. I’m concerned about it crimping as it bends to go away from the wall and into the tank. My only idea to avoid this would be something like but sturdier than a bendable drinking straw 🙄 lame I know but I don’t know what is available that could do this and be secured to the wall with something like the u shaped clips with screw holes on either side. 

Edited March 6, 2022 by Guppysnail

[Vaping Giant]

There’s also the option of masking you pvc air runs. We don’t run a full loop, more of a U shape. As we change our fish room around to make it more presentable, I’ll be adding floating shelves just under them or maybe covering them if I’m feeling punchy. 
 

I have many of the same sound issues, air pump vibration noise sets my eye teeth on edge, so the last pump not only lets us handle the 30 plus tanks in the fish room not only cut out 10 + plus power cords,  I don’t have to hear all those @*## pumps.