Ich treatment and raising temperature

[Dallasp]

Hi I’ve been treating for Ich for the last 2 weeks now. Have had no improvement in getting rid of it. All my water parameters are good. No ammonia or nitrates. Tank was at 82 degrees. Started treatment using MetroPlex, did not work so switched to Ich X, have been using that for about a week. Daily water changes before dosing and gravel vacs and still no improvement. I have a tetraodon shoutedini I am very worried about. He is the only fish in my tank infected at this point. I am at a loss at what to do being that treatment isn’t seeming to work no matter what… so I have now raised my temperature slowly up to 85. In doing that last night, I woke up today with my puffer covered with even more white spots….. I’m so worried!!! Should I raise the temperature more past 85???? How much heat can my fish handle???? Also should I be gravel vacuuming every day???I have neon tetras, a panda garra, cherry barbs and the tetraodon shoutedini. Please help I am worried and really need help fighting this Ich. 

Edited February 12, 2022 by Dallasp

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

I'm sorry @Dallasp. Usually Ich will respond to this sort of treatment so I'm wondering if it's not Ich or it's Stress Ich which supposedly reacts in a different way. Take a look at this chart that our friend @Colu uses to help people, I'm wondering if you have Epistylis:

:

If it is the treatment is different and heat makes it worse not better. It would be weird as it's been 2 weeks or maybe the Ich opened the door to this illness. 

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

If it's epistylus you'll need to SLOWLY lower the temp and treat with Kanaplex (in food if they're eating) and continue with Ich X....if you post a pic of the current state of your fish that could help. 

[Fish Folk]

There other fish sicknesses aquarists  have reported that look like Ich, but are something different.

Here’s one: 

https://www.bassleer.com/ornamentalfishexporters/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2016/12/INFOFISHFish-Health-_-05-2012.pdf

 

 

 

[Dallasp]

Here are some pictures I just took. Was very hard, he is camera shy. As you can see in the pics most of the dots are on his body and a couple on his face. None on the fins except a couple on his tail. 

[Dallasp]

I should mention I put 2 new fish in the tank last week right before this happened. A cherry barb and panda garra. The cherry barb had 2 white dots on it shortly after coming in. It had clamped fins and was slightly flashing as well. Which is what made me think it was Ich. That’s when I started treatment immediately. The white dots left the cherry barb after around 3 days of treatment and has only been after the puffer ever since. 

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Well thankfully not as bad as I expected. So just to clarify you were already treating for ich, following dosage exactly for Ich X, and in the 2nd week you added new fish?

[Dallasp]

No no, sorry. New fish got added 2* weeks ago. Then a day later I started Ich treatment using MetroPlex used it for a week- didn’t work, so put carbon in, did a water change, took carbon out, then switched to Ich x and been using that for the last week. Now puffer looks like that. Are we still thinking it’s Ich? Should I raise temperature higher than 85? 

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Ah ok that's what I remember with your first post I just wanted to make sure. It still looks like Ich to me, no don't raise the temp it should be fine. 85 is plenty hot enough. 

What is really happening is that the metro did nothing to help you- so that 1 week of treament can be totally thrown out. You've been treating it properly for only a week. I've had cases it takes 14 days or so, sometimes longer when you don't use heat (I've done that too). 

When you raise the temp what you are doing is just speeding up the lifecycle of the Ich- it does nothing to kill it. The spots you see are scabs where the parasite has laid eggs and the scab protects them from meds, then the scab falls of (making you think the ich is gone but it is not, it has fallen in egg form into your substrate, which is why you continue to treat for at least a few days after the last spots are seen as long as fish aren't showing signs of stress) the eggs hatch faster with the heat the ONLY time the Ich is vunerable to the meds is when the little swimmers come out and try and find one of your fish to start the whole process over again. 

Your poor puffer has spots but thankfully not as many as I've seen in very bad cases, this is mid to mild. Just keep the tank where it is and keep following the Ich X instructions. 

Just make sure your parameters are good 0 ammonia and nitrites if there are any change some water and add conditioner THEN dose the meds. ***also make sure your fish have plenty of air movement in the tank, higher temps- less oxygen- also more ammonia if you have any dying plants or uneaten food. 

Edited February 12, 2022 by xXInkedPhoenixX

[Dallasp]

Okay thankyou so much for the clarity I just felt I was doing something wrong since it seems to be getting worse and not better. My tank normally sits around 81-82 degrees. Do you think I should slowly lower it back down? And should I be gravel vacuuming every day at this point? I did a full vac yesterday before treatment. 

[Dallasp]

It’s also very strange that all the other fish in the tank are fine and have nothing on them…Only the puffer.

Gosh this is beyond stressful… never adding new fish ever again lol wish I had a quarantine tank. *Sigh*.

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

No, you're doing nothinig wrong as far as I can tell. Just keep at it- I know it's stressful to see your fish friends suffer. I've not yet treated with Ich-X (I've used API Super Ick) so I had to look up the directions. It says to dose every 24 hours AFTER 1/3 water change. So you can vacuum the substrate during that 1/3 water change then dose. If you think your fish are showing signs of stress because of the heat you can lower it- just know if it's not that sweet spot it may take longer to treat. I treated a tank with no heat and it did take me longer (water was around 75 degrees). Only you can see what is going on in your tank and there are several ways to approach a lot of things- this sucks but you do have to go with your gut. 

Well @Dallasp this is one of those lessons you learn the hard way. No judgement, we ALL make mistakes and it really does suck and it IS super stressful- but what you can say for yourself at the end of this- with hopefully everyone alive and well again- that you WON'T do that again!! 🙃

[Colu]

Some of the spots look raised I think that Epistylis what I would do is treat with kanaplex in food and ick x to treat the water column for one week to cover all bases

[Dallasp]

Okay awesome sounds good! Without you I would have been overthinking and freaking out all day lol I will keep the tank as is and continue treatment and gravel vacs. 

One last thing I’d like to ask is should I be worried about constant gravel vacs disrupting the tanks cycle?

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@Colu you think so? Can @Dallasp continue with the Ich-X and treat with kanaplex in food? (also LOWER the temp) odd duck had posted that this is one way to cure Epistylus and it would cover any Ich possibilities. I agree they look raised but that's the only characteristic I can see that matches really. 

[Dallasp]

I am not sure how I’d put kanaplex in his food for I only feed him ramshorn snails and frozen bloodworms. 

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@Dallasp your gravel vac'ing should not distrupt the cycle if you're only doiing 1/3 changes. Leave your filters alone unless they REALLY need it. I believe ich x doesn't disrupt the cycle. 

Kanaplex can be dosed in the water column***per Seachem it can be absorbed through both skin and gills- ingestion is not required. I've used it in the water column for my Otos as they won't eat it either. 

[Colu]

You can use frozen foods using the recipe I post instead of pellets @Dallaspyes you can use ick x and kanaplex together as long as kanaplex is added to food and ick x to treat the water column as Epistylis feeds off bacterial on your fish a spreads more quickly at higher temperatures you usually notice it getting worse when you raise the temperature to treat ich @xXInkedPhoenixX

Edited February 12, 2022 by Colu
Typo

[Dallasp]

So I could get a clump of the frozen bloodworms thawed, do the kanaplex recipe, then refreeze them and feed them to all of the fish in the tank? And continue to treat Ich X in the water? 

[Colu]

Yes you can I usually mix a small batch up every day when using frozen with kanaplex and keep in the fridge and feed twice daily @Dallasp

Edited February 12, 2022 by Colu

[Dallasp]

Okay good to know. I may run to the pet store and get the kanaplex now… my only worry in doing that is 1. The fish that seem healthy and fine will be eating the kanaplex. And 2. When the bloodworms thaw in the tank water, will the kanaplex come off of them and absorb in the water with the Ich X?

[Dallasp]

Just found an answer - Use Focus! I am feeling like there’s still hope. Thanks so much everyone for all the help I greatly appreciate it. 

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Kanaplex has worked very well for me in the past. Even if your other fish have contact with it- it SHOULD be fine. 

Don't forget to let your temp go down again. 

[813aquatics]

Just to add anecdotal evidence but I just had a bad breakout of epistylis and successfully treated with a very high aquarium salt dosage, but do heed your dosing instructions as I’m not sure how puffers handle it.

[Dallasp]

Question again! I am trying to put the kanaplex in thawed frozen bloodworms. It says to mix it with 1 tablespoon of food. That’s A LOT of bloodworms… Do I have to feed that entire tablespoon of bloodworms in 1 sitting or just a little of that?