Calling all Shrimp Keepers

[Ragnarok12]

If you have been successful setting up a cherry shrimp breeding operation, I want to hear from you. I have tried in three separate tanks to get a colony of cherry shrimp going, and I just cannot get it to stick. I start with 10 or 11 shrimp, provide a variety of foods (algae wafers, hikari shrimp food, extreme flakes, AC fry food), ensure there is driftwood and live plants, cycle the tanks fully, and yet I see only occasional molting and no breeding whatsoever. The shrimp will be fine for a week or two, and then I start losing one a day or every other day until they are all gone. I have been trying to keep them in shrimp only tanks to avoid fish picking off the theoretical babies. I'm about to give up on shrimp, which is sad, because I'm really into them. What specific setups have people been using that work, and what is the most likely thing I'm doing wrong? My water specs are:

• PH = 7.2-7.4
• Nitrates = 10-20 ppm
• Nitrites/Ammonia = 0 ppm
• chlorine = 0 ppm
• GH = 12 dh (buffered up from default 3-4 dh in tap water with Wonder Shell)
• KH = 5dh
• Temp = 72-74F (no heaters in tanks, Water is just the ambient temperature of my house during summer months)
• copper = 0.029 ppm (per local water report)
• lead = 0 ppm (per local water report)

I was listening to an old Aquarist podcast with Cory yesterday and they talked about STT (seasoned tank time) being important for shrimp. My tanks have been set up anywhere from 3 to 7 months, and I do a good job of keeping algae growth sparse. Are others able to grow out shrimp in clean tanks? should I be doing something differently to encourage biofilm production? I'd love to see pictures of your successful setups so I can perhaps glean some information from that.

[Marnol D]

I have a 20 gallon tank breeding my cherry shrimp.
Usually to get them to take to the water ill drip acclimate until the bucket im using is almost full then ill add them to the tank. The glass in my tank is covered in green algae and the shrimp seem to enjoy clinging to it eating the algae up. (this is also when they started breeding more is when I left the algae and tank to do its on thing besides water changes) I also have a decent amount of mulm caught up in my java moss bundle that they hide in and feed off of and this is where all the babies chill until they reach about 1-2 CMs in length. 

Im also breeding them in a tank with pea puffers and the colony is growing so they are out breeding the hunger of the peas. 

I guess I went with the dirty tank method but I do plan on cleaning the glass up (or setting up another tank as a show tank) once I get an overstock on the cherries.

I guess the cherries preferred being able to graze on the algae and pick through the java moss mulm and this got them finally go crazy with the breeding. 

 

 

[MAC]

Im no shrimp expert but it may matter where you are getting your starter shrimp and how well they are before coming into your possession. That said, having a very seasoned tank may help any new shrimp to constantly graze and get back any lost health. I think it's important to have alot of 'seasoning' in a tank to bring on new shrimp. Honestly my shrimp tanks are the most neglected looking ones I have. Algae on the glass, mulm, and I change some water maybe every other month. 

Hopefully things turn around for you, my initial foray into shrimp I lost almost half my originals until one day after months and months of frustration something clicked and they've been going great ever since. Blues, reds, and greens. 

Edited September 22, 2021 by MAC

[Tihshho]

I've got a rack dedicated to Neo's that's going to expand to Cardinia and Sulawesi. The Neo tanks are 20L's with 75w heaters (I'll get into this more), dual sponge filters, Seachem Onyx substrate (previously used pool filter sand and moved away from it) and some simple LED lights to support plant growth and chunks of Lava Rock.

The key thing is to have the tanks established, and I'm not talking cycled, but established prior to adding shrimp. Each tank was setup with an established sponge filter (4-5 months old minimum and uncleaned post move.) I run the tanks with plants and snails for months (2-3 minimum) to get the biofilm covering everything, decent amounts of various algae, and a strong supporting ecosystem with detritus worms and seed shrimp (seem to hitch hike on plants and sponge media.) I run my light cycles on these tanks long (about 18 hours a day from day 1 till today) and watch the tank for signs they are ready for shrimp. Signs the tank is ready would be the black Lava Rock will get a decent skin of algae (not patches), the seed shrimp population is all over the glass and swarming in the water column, and the plants have significant new growth. If you look at the potato quality picture above you will see the top left tank looks significantly different than the other three. Why? Well at the time I took this picture it was new. The rocks I pre seasoned in one of the other shrimp tanks for 6 months, the filters were pulled from two other shrimp tanks and were run in buckets prior to verify that I wasn't introducing shrimp from those other tanks into this tank being setup for another variant. If you take a look at the tank below, you will notice a drastic color difference. That isn't algae on the glass making the substrate look green that's just a sign that the tank, IMO, is seasoned and ready to go. 

I start all of the tanks with 8-12 shrimp. Shrimp are brought home, acclimated to temp for 30 mins, and then I drip acclimate them regardless of where they are sourced. The drip process goes for 2.5 hours and I run my Innovative Marine AccuDrip at a drop per second from the output (don't base it on the drops going on in the IV bulb.) After that point I'll generally net the shrimp out and drop them in the new tank. Going through this method, if everything was healthy upon arrival (for shrimp arriving in the mail) my success rate is in the high 90's. For shrimp I source from local breeders (within my state or border states) I retain 100% success. 

Substrate IMO matters only if you're keeping larger snails or have a problem with pest snails. Because I keep snails in the tank, and aim to make sure there is plenty of calcium in the water to retain a moderate pH, I've moved away from inert substrate. Why? Well when I started to keep Rabbit Snails, I noticed there was a large competition in nutrients for the Snails shells vs the Shrimp exoskeletons. Food alone isn't a solution. Seachem Onyx has been my go to. Besides that, I had an issue with waste buildup in my initial longterm pool filter sand setups. It's a great substrate, don't get me wrong, and boy is it cheap which is nice. The issue for me was that when I have thousands of shrimp per breeding tank, the waste settles on the surface and siphoning a shrimp tank isn't so easy. I like to say Shrimp are dumb/too curious for their own good. You have an unprotected siphon going, expect shrimp to go up it. Moving to Onyx has made the overall tanks look cleaner. Now lets talk about substrate maintenance. I don't gravel vac these tanks regularly. I gravel vac these tanks with a modified python (I'll have to create a build thread on the siphon head) every 6 months to pull out the excess physical waste from the ton of shrimp and snails. Sorry mulm squad, but shrimp productivity I've noticed is limited by excess mulm. A moderate layer of it is fine, but when they start to focus more energy at picking mulm rather than introduced foods with calcium, protein, and other trace elements you start to notice the decline. I leave the mulm for 6 months for multiple reasons. First, it's a pain to gravel vac shrimp tanks (see above.) Second, the mulm assists with the micro life in the tank which is part of my gauge to keep an eye on the overall water quality. Third, in lighter moderation it has some benefits. 

Heat. You'll read all over the place that Neo's are ok at room temps and prefer cooler water. Sure, they will survive, but IMO not thrive. I've tested this and noticed significant differences in color, production and life overall activity. I keep my tanks heated to 78, this is mainly to make sure that if the fish room temps drop if my dehumidifier turns off, or I have the door open for long periods of time, or if it's winter I will have constant temps year round. Having the tanks heated to 78 I've noticed better odds of color from any strain of Neo I've worked with. I split a colony of Red Rili's (not pictured above) one in a heated tank and another not heated and the colors of the offspring were more vibrant in the heated tank. I tried this with Fire Reds as well, to which I noticed that I would cull 75% of the offspring in the cool water tank, to maybe around 40% in the warmer tank. The population of the heated tank was drastically different than the non heated tank. Shrimp were more active and polishing off food as heat promotes a good metabolism, where as in the cool tank part of a stick of Dennerle food would last multiple days.

Water changes. At first when it comes to new to me shrimp, I'm delicate with the water change process. I start with 20% weekly water changes and slowly trickle water into the tank from the python. Each month I ramp up the volume of the water change 10% till I get to 50%. Each time I ramp up the water change volume I also increase the flow rate of the water to the tank. I have a modified Python hook that diverts the water sideways to distribute it across the tank rather than straight down. This adds aeration as well as doesn't mess up the substrate when the valve is fully open.

Food. I feed all my shrimp a mix of the Dennerle Shrimp King line, some flower pollen a couple times a month, BacterAE every other water change, as well as some Extreme Wafers. I rotate the pellet food offerings to make sure their diet varies day to day. I also feed decently heavy to the tanks. That said, if I need to I can skip prepared feedings for over a week (if I'm traveling for work) and come back to seeing no drastic changes or losses. Shrimp will graze on biofilm throughout the day, I just feed heavy to keep the biofilm available as well as to make it a secondary meal. This might not be the most favorite option for some so I apologize, but the tanks that have bladder/pond snails in them also end up becoming a food source. When I see them on the glass post feeding I'll go through and smash a bunch which get swarmed and eaten. Between the protein the shells end up dissolving and adding back to the overall GH and KH (though very very very minutely.)

Hardscape/decor. I go for Lava Rock and plants for multiple reasons. The Lava Rock is solely for surface area for babies to graze on post hatching. Adults will use it too, but not to the extent of the babies. Same goes for the plants. I'll see freshly hatched babies on the plants and rocks before I see them in the swarm of subadults and adults on prepared pellets. The plants are there to aid in water quality, but its not the primary reason they are there. I keep crypts in the tanks to give molted individuals a place to hide. When some shrimp molt, others might swarm it as that's when it's at it's natural weak point. Hiding spaces for those are key. 

I think I covered the primary portions. If you have further questions feel free to ask and I can clarify. Don't give up!

[Patrick_G]

I’m with you on this! I’ve had some serious problems raising shrimp. I think there’s something to the seasoned tank idea, but I see tons of pic and videos of serious shrimp breeders raising them in almost bare tanks with little more than biofilm on the glass and some moss. It’s confusing! Right now I have a thriving and expanding colony in a fairly heavily planted 75 gal with mineralized water. I also have a 11 gal with about 15-20 shrimp bought from a local breeder. There is absolutely no breeding in that one even though some shrimp have  been in the tank for  5-6 months and  it’s about 11 months with the same parameters as the 75. 

Edited September 22, 2021 by Patrick_G

[Tihshho]

On 9/22/2021 at 12:55 PM, Patrick_G said:

I’m with you on this! I’ve had some serious problems raising shrimp. I think there’s something to the seasoned tank idea, but I see tons of pic and videos of serious shrimp breeders raising them in almost bare tanks. Right now I have a thriving and expanding colony in a fairly heavily planted 75 gal with mineralized water. I also have a 11 gal with about 15-20 shrimp bought from a local breeder. There is absolutely no breeding in that one even though some shrimp have  been in the tank for  5-6 months and the it’s about 11 months with the same parameters as the 75. 

My cull tank is a 40B that is bare bottom. The reason I can attribute the success to that tank is that all the shrimp were produced in the same source water and I'm able to move them back and fourth within the fishroom without issues as long as it's not a tank that was setup with water that's drastically different such as tank that is filled with RO only or a acidic remineralized RO/DI tank.

[Patrick_G]

@Tihshho are you using tap water and what are the parameters? 

On 9/22/2021 at 9:58 AM, Tihshho said:

My cull tank is a 40B that is bare bottom. The reason I can attribute the success to that tank is that all the shrimp were produced in the same source water and I'm able to move them back and fourth within the fishroom without issues as long as it's not a tank that was setup with water that's drastically different such as tank that is filled with RO only or a acidic remineralized RO/DI tank.

Sorry I edited to add the part about the bare tanks having biofilm on the glass and moss growing. I think that’s part of the formula.

[Tihshho]

For established colonies everything is tap. For new colonies from hobbyist breeders that kept them in remineralized RO/DI I start the tank with 75% RO/DI remineralized and 25% tap to be able to start to adjust them to my tap which will end up with water changes being 100% tap.

I don't chase parameters, I just follow TDS for my Neos which are around 280. 

[Guppysnail]

On 9/22/2021 at 10:23 AM, Ragnarok12 said:

keeping algae growth sparse

I have very successful shrimp colonies. I only intended one but they have migrated to most of my tanks. You need algae. Let it grow.  Pristine tank are not ideal for shrimp. If you look at a lot of big time shrimp breeders they will tell you one of the keys to successful shrimp colonies is snails. I have mystery and bladder snails in all my tanks. Google snail benefits in shrimp tank. Hope that helps. 

On 9/22/2021 at 12:55 PM, Patrick_G said:

serious shrimp breeders raising them in almost bare tanks with little more than biofilm

They pile in bacterAE or similar to hyper stimulate biofilm growth. 

[Tihshho]

On 9/22/2021 at 1:30 PM, Guppysnail said:

If you look at a lot of big time shrimp breeders they will tell you one of the keys to successful shrimp colonies is snails

I wouldn't say this is 100% the case, especially when it comes to prolific species such as bladder/pond snails. If I could have them out of the shrimp tanks I would. Between how much they can swarm the food if they get out of control, plus how they strip the water of additional levels of calcium for their shell growth which the shrimp are competing for for their exoskeletons, it's just another variable to keep an eye on. Other species that are less prolific I could agree on a bit of a benefit, but not all snails are created equal.

[Guppysnail]

On 9/22/2021 at 1:37 PM, Tihshho said:

I wouldn't say this is 100% the case, especially when it comes to prolific species such as bladder/pond snails. If I could have them out of the shrimp tanks I would. Between how much they can swarm the food if they get out of control, plus how they strip the water of additional levels of calcium for their shell growth which the shrimp are competing for for their exoskeletons, it's just another variable to keep an eye on. Other species that are less prolific I could agree on a bit of a benefit, but not all snails are created equal.

I agree not all snails are equal.  Those were tips I found long ago when starting with shrimp. I keep my calcium very high and hard water so I never noticed a calcium depletion though. Interesting, something to keep in mind if water is softer. 

[Tihshho]

On 9/22/2021 at 1:41 PM, Guppysnail said:

Interesting, something to keep in mind if water is softer. 

Yep, I had to fight this personally with crushed coral when I had pool filter sand. Moving to Onyx has helped that issue without having to supplement. Snails are great if your source water can support the minerals, if not it's just another thing keeping down your TDS.

 

[Andy's Fish Den]

I have kept and bred several kinds of neo shrimp, my setups vary from 10 to 20 gallon tanks. I keep them in my tap well water, which is quite hard and has quite a bit of minerals in it. the TDS will be anywhere from 200-350 throughout the year. I don't measure the hardness or anything, but when the water evaporates, it leaves a nice mineral/ calcium ring around the top of the aquarium. I do weekly 50%water changes, and keep some endlers or guppies in the tanks with them. I feed heavily, so that the fish and shrimp have plenty to eat. When I cull, I just throw the culls into a 40 breeder that is a mixed community and I have quite a nice skittles tank going there. 

[Ragnarok12]

Y'all, thank you so so much for all of this content. @Tihshho you're first message must have taken you half and hour to put together, but I am so appreciative of you going step by step as you did. I'm tempted to print out your response and tape it up in my fish room for reference. I'm guessing the higher level of heat from a heater would also probably encourage more biofilm and algae production, so sounds like a I should get a heater back in my aquariums. I'm moving states in a couple of months, so I think I'll establish a new shrimp tank once I move and really start putting effort into growing it out to be super seasoned. I've been taking an aquascaping approach to my tanks this past year, so emphasis has been on plant growth and aesthetics more than maintaining optimum livestock conditions. It's nice to finally have an answer in my brain for why I haven't been successful with my shrimp as well as a strategy moving forward. 

[Tihshho]

On 9/22/2021 at 2:46 PM, Ragnarok12 said:

Y'all, thank you so so much for all of this content. @Tihshho you're first message must have taken you half and hour to put together, but I am so appreciative of you going step by step as you did. I'm tempted to print out your response and tape it up in my fish room for reference. I'm guessing the higher level of heat from a heater would also probably encourage more biofilm and algae production, so sounds like a I should get a heater back in my aquariums. I'm moving states in a couple of months, so I think I'll establish a new shrimp tank once I move and really start putting effort into growing it out to be super seasoned. I've been taking an aquascaping approach to my tanks this past year, so emphasis has been on plant growth and aesthetics more than maintaining optimum livestock conditions. It's nice to finally have an answer in my brain for why I haven't been successful with my shrimp as well as a strategy moving forward. 

Not a problem, happy to help. Nah, not that long, but I wanted to get pretty detailed for you. This by all means ISN'T THE ONLY WAY to keep shrimp, but this has been the solution I've found that works reliably. In terms of acclimating, the process I mentioned is what I provide all of the people I sell shrimp to and it has worked for them. 

You will find methods that work for you, as plenty of others have, but that's gonna take some time once you get your own population established. If you plan on setting the tank up later, if you have a tank you don't fiddle with stocking wise, place some lava rock in there and get that going. Especially if you can place it in a tank with plants where all the microbial life and small inverts will start to make a home in it. Ideally, you want this in a tank that's invert safe and won't be putting any copper based meds in. The other thing you can do is get the sponge filter(s) going and have those ready. Having the filter media and some stones ready will jump start your tank.