Apistogramma colony?

[FriendlyLoach]

Hi, 

I am getting a pair of Apistogramma triple red. I was wondering if they breed can I keep the fry? Like if I grow the fry up and add them back to the main tank with their parents.. and if the all the siblings and parents breed, will they have inbreeding problems? 

[Colu]

It depends on the size of the tank if you put fry back in with the adults when they get bigger you will start to see territorial aggression when adult want to breed again I wouldn't breed them together you will have higher rate of  genetic deformity as a result

[FriendlyLoach]

it is a 55 gallon

[Nik_n]

I would avoid breeding the siblings with each other or the parents. As previously mentioned, you will get a lot more deformities. I would suggest selling the fry as soon as they reach the sellable size and then getting more appisots which aren't related.  

[DSH OUTDOORS]

I understand the rational @Colu and @Nik_n about breeding with siblings and what not.  But where do we think all those same sized, tank breed fish at the local fish store come from?  Whenever I am looking for a new breeding project I run and grab 6-12 of the same species at the store or online and don't think twice about it.

My guess, just as when I have sold fish, they come from the same spawn or at most the same tank from different females but most likely the same male.  I think the most important thing is to grow out as long as you can, pick your best stock as far as coloration, growth, health, etc. and keep those for future generations.  Sell the remaining and supplement your bloodlines from another source entirely when you can.

I get that in wild fish/wild anything genetic mutations/deformity due to inbreeding are detrimental to a species.  In the aquarium though this is how we managed to get all of these different strains and colorations. There are trade offs of course (weak guppies being first and foremost) but selective breeding, sometimes within the same spawn to isolate this or that is how things are done.

I am not arguing either way, I was just reading through the thread and the lightbulb went off. 

So in conclusion @FriendlyLoach, I see no issue with this, as long as you pick the best looking and healthiest offspring and add new blood along the way and don't get 2-3 generations down the line with only the original pair for genetic material.

[Crabby]

I get your line of thought @DSH OUTDOORS, but I’ve found that apistos are really delicate with inbreeding. I had multiple tail deformities that I’ve seen in my groups of apisto fry. Their parents are F1 from a wild pair, so the fry are only F2 and I’m already getting deformities. And that’s just from the fry that have survived this long. So I think ideally if you have the chance, you should bring in new blood with every generation, choosing the nicest male or female and purchasing a mate for that fish.

In terms of the original question from @FriendlyLoach I think you’ll definitely have to sell a bunch of the fry along the way. You could raise a few up to live with their parents at full size (maybe a couple pairs at most in a 55 gallon, in addition to the parents?), but I don’t believe any type of apistogrammas are colony breeders. Some varieties breed in harems, but that’s a bit different.

I mean it works to a stage. I’ve got a 29 gallon planted community that I bred my apistos in. I never removed the fry, and now my oldest male is almost as big as his mother. At this point I maybe have 10 left; 2 males, 4-5 females (only 1 is large enough to pair with the dominant male), and a few deformed females that I’m very attached to. I’m going to have to sell the sub-dominant male and the rest of the females eventually. Ideally I would source a female from someone else, but I think either one of, or the only private breeder in Melbourne who breeds this fish. So I’ll see what I can do but I might just have to breed that dominant pair. Considering the rarity of this species in my area, I wouldn’t want to lose the line. I would still do this in a different tank though.

Given your chosen species I think you’d have an easy job finding a different bloodline to add in with your second generation. 

[Nik_n]

I agree with @Crabbyand @DSH OUTDOORS.  Adding new fish from a different bloodline will ensure that there are less to no deformities and you could still breed the second generation of your fish