GBR vs. Bolivian rams in a 50g

[ange]

I'm adding rams to my 50g but both of my LFS have run into issues with getting Bolivian rams from their wholesaler (I'm unsure if they use the same or different wholesalers) but both have always had German blues in stock. I've kept Bolivians with angels before several years ago and had zero issues. Both stores said I should be able to keep the Germans with angels instead but I'm concerned about temp in the tank since I had the impression that they prefer much higher temperatures à la Discus?

My ambient water temperature (no heater) is 80 degrees. During the cooler months I keep it at about 78. I don't want to chase one specific number but I'm unsure what's a realistic range that they'll tolerate and I should prepare for in the event I'm still unable to find a Bolivian locally in a few months. Thanks for the advice, this is my first "real" tank in 5 years.

Tank mates: 2 angelfish (nickel size), 2 bristlenose plecos (3-4"), 1 bristlenose pleco (under 1", though it's staying in its grow-out tank for awhile longer)

[Daniel]

I too have had good luck with Bolivians and Angels together and if it were me, I would hold out a little longer to see if I could get some.

But in my experience the German blue rams would really, really prefer to be around 84°F. The Angels will tolerate that, probably pretty well so that combination is still a possibility if you're willing to raise the temperature.

 

 

[ange]

2 hours ago, Daniel said:

I too have had good luck with Bolivians and Angels together and if it were me, I would hold out a little longer to see if I could get some.

But in my experience the German blue rams would really, really prefer to be around 84°F. The Angels will tolerate that, probably pretty well so that combination is still a possibility if you're willing to raise the temperature.

 

 

Do you know what temp plants would start to struggle at? That's my main concern with raising the temp and I neglected to mention it in my original post.

Plants are Amazon sword, jungle and leopard val, Java fern, Java moss, azolla, Amazon frogbit, and red root floaters.

[Daniel]

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I kept this tank between 82°F and 84°F and the Amazon sword grew like a weed. So did seemingly anything that propagated by runners. I think that grassy stuff in the foreground was supposed be pygmy chain sword but it clearly wasn't. 

This seemed to be near the high end of tolerable for the plants, but it was tolerated as you can see. German blue rams did great in this tank.

Most of my tanks are 'attrition tanks'. They start a wider variety of plants and fish than they eventually stabilize into. There is usually no exact formula for what works and what doesn't. The only way to really know is throw it all in there and see what thrives and what disappears. In end you end up with a lot of stuff that likes your water and your style of fish keeping and none of what doesn't.

[ange]

Luckily I'm not restricted to the plants that I mentioned so there's some room to play around. The visual you provided helps a ton. We'll see where I'm at when I'm ready to drown the tank.

[Streetwise]

Very interesting.

 

Edited September 19, 2020 by Streetwise

[ccurtis]

I have a question about rams. Since we are taking Bolivians and GBRs...  I currently keep some Bolivians in a community tank with the temperature at about 76ish. The Bolivian rams are doing very well. If I had another tank with the same water parameters, just with the temperature up around 82, would GBR's likely thrive as well?  My PH is very stable, ammonia and nitrite are 0, nitrates typically no higher than 20ppm. 

[Daniel]

The German blue Rams would like 82°F okay, but they would like 84°F even better. For some reason German blue rams do a lot better when the temperatures just a little warmer. Many people say rams are tricky fish to keep but with lot of that is probably because they're trying to maintain them at cooler temperatures.

I think with the Rams in their natural habitat they get cut off in these oxbow lakes where the water recedes and the temperatures rise. This is where they thrive and breed. @Dean’s Fishroom might know, he has been down there and would have first hand knowledge

Same with discus. People say discus are tricky. They are a little tricky. But keep them at 84° in clean water with lots of high calorie food and suddenly they're just like any other fish. I'm not sure what explanation is with the discus on why they prefer warmer water other than their metabolism runs more quickly. 

 

[ange]

I've never thought about the diet difference GBR and Bolivian may have. What would you change between the two species to make it higher calorie? In the past I fed my Bolivians Xtreme 1.5mm sinking pellets, misc. Hikari frozen foods, mosquito larvae, and cut up earth worms. They didn't require target feeding for the most part.