An unorthodox Mini Pond Question...

[Fish Folk]

Like a handful of eager starters with pond season in the US, we suffered from the cold snap a couple weeks back. Lost a number of adult guppies. Only young seem to have managed through in 2 out of 3 mini ponds.

I am curious what input the forum would offer on breeding German Blue Rams over the summer? Our ponds do get pretty warm - 70s-90s. Guppies make it through the temp cycle, but it’s warm for them.

With the soft rain water, and lots of micro life, the Rams idea has begun to percolate.

I know Apistogrammas are reasonably common to do in ponds. What about Rams? 

Edited June 6, 2021 by Fish Folk

[GardenStateGoldfish]

I think that would mostly depend on where you live. I am a member of a tub pond aquatic group in my state and I have learned a bunch of tips and tricks. Depending on your climate you may not be able to enjoy them as long or during storms you may need to add heaters.

I would recommend doing what will give you the most enjoyment. Guppies are a great choice because they can tolerate cooler water and if your in the north east like me, that last cold snap/rainstorm was really tough on the tub pond game. 

I highly recommend reading Dr. Ted Coletti's The Tub Pond Handbook, its fantastic. If you are adverse to spending money, you can hear and interview with him where he discusses a lot of potential hang ups on the Pond Hunter Radio Broadcast, just search Pond Hunter Radio Ted Coletti. It is episode 52, its about an hour but worth the listen IMO. 

 

[Fish Folk]

29 minutes ago, GardenStateGoldfish said:

I think that would mostly depend on where you live. I am a member of a tub pond aquatic group in my state and I have learned a bunch of tips and tricks. Depending on your climate you may not be able to enjoy them as long or during storms you may need to add heaters.

I would recommend doing what will give you the most enjoyment. Guppies are a great choice because they can tolerate cooler water and if your in the north east like me, that last cold snap/rainstorm was really tough on the tub pond game. 

I highly recommend reading Dr. Ted Coletti's The Tub Pond Handbook, its fantastic. If you are adverse to spending money, you can hear and interview with him where he discusses a lot of potential hang ups on the Pond Hunter Radio Broadcast, just search Pond Hunter Radio Ted Coletti. It is episode 52, its about an hour but worth the listen IMO. 

 

Awesome!! Thanks for the feedback. In truth, if it could work to breed a single pair of Rams for just one spawn, that would be 100% worth it to me.

We’re in western MD. Our mini pond is not in the ground, so it does heat up! We had good success with guppies last year.

I might consider trying out a Ram experiment... maybe have a heater set to provide a temperature “bottom.” 

[GardenStateGoldfish]

1 minute ago, Fish Folk said:

We’re in western MD. Our mini pond is not in the ground, so it does heat up! We had good success with guppies last year.

The thing about above ground temps is that swing does work both ways, just as it can heat up, it can cool off quickly overnight or on cold or rainy days.

Someone in my group wanted to try discus.... the advice from they gave him was if your okay with potentially losing the fish if something goes wrong, its worth the experiment. If you would be gutted to lose the pair then I wouldn't risk it. 

[Fish Folk]

3 minutes ago, GardenStateGoldfish said:

The thing about above ground temps is that swing does work both ways, just as it can heat up, it can cool off quickly overnight or on cold or rainy days.

Someone in my group wanted to try discus.... the advice from they gave him was if your okay with potentially losing the fish if something goes wrong, its worth the experiment. If you would be gutted to lose the pair then I wouldn't risk it. 

Yeah, that makes sense. I know one LFS keeps Rams cool - lower 70s. We’ve got some up near 90°. I think the baseline temp really is key. If they can be kept from bottoming out with a heater... maybe it could be done.

Did you ever hear whether anyone was successful with discus outside?

[GardenStateGoldfish]

He decided against it... he has a special stock discus that would be too difficult/expensive to replace so for him it wasn't worth the risk. 

If you are not concerned with the temperature I would go for it... from an outsider perspective you seem to be really wanting to do it. I would wait until after June 15th at least to put them out, that is the official start to tropical tub ponds, maybe people jump the gun (like myself) but for tropical fish that is usually the safest starting date. (I am in zone 6)

In the same cold snap that killed your guppies, here in NJ my tubs went from 74ish temp down to 42 in about 30 hours, luckily I keep goldfish and the only losses were on my grow outs because they overflowed with all the rain and some fry washed away with the rain. 



 

[Fish Folk]

2 minutes ago, GardenStateGoldfish said:

He decided against it... he has a special stock discus that would be too difficult/expensive to replace so for him it wasn't worth the risk. 

If you are not concerned with the temperature I would go for it... from an outsider perspective you seem to be really wanting to do it. I would wait until after June 15th at least to put them out, that is the official start to tropical tub ponds, maybe people jump the gun (like myself) but for tropical fish that is usually the safest starting date. (I am in zone 6)

In the same cold snap that killed your guppies, here in NJ my tubs went from 74ish temp down to 42 in about 30 hours, luckily I keep goldfish and the only losses were on my grow outs because they overflowed with all the rain and some fry washed away with the rain. 



 

Yeah, it dipped into the 40s here. Surprisingly, baby guppies made it through.

We’ve bred a lot of Rams before... I’m just curious if this might unlock a unique strategy for them.

[GardenStateGoldfish]

11 minutes ago, Fish Folk said:

I’m just curious if this might unlock a unique strategy for them.

I think the answer to that would be yes just based on my experience of keeping goldfish inside and outside, what happens with the sunlight, algae, natural smorgeshxborg of live foods... the outdoor fish keeping is very different to indoor and from my experience its fantastic for growth and color of goldfish, water parameters are very easy to maintain outside thanks to the sun/algae's/plants. 

I would definitely think should you be successful that there would be some major benefits to your Rams. 

 

[Steph’s Fish and Plants]

I must admit I’m very intrigued by this idea. I do think that lower temp swings on stormy days might be the one caveat, but if you breed lots of rams then I think it’d be more than worth it to throw a pair outside, and document ur experiences on the forum really well. Would you be pulling the fry? Would rams parent? I must admit I don’t remember a whole lot on ram breeding off the top of my head 😅 but it’s something I plan on doing in the future, so I’m very intrigued. Also, not to derail the post, but the mention of doing apistos outside also caught my attention and now I might try and do that 😂

[Fish Folk]

6 hours ago, Steph’s Fish and Plants said:

I must admit I’m very intrigued by this idea. I do think that lower temp swings on stormy days might be the one caveat, but if you breed lots of rams then I think it’d be more than worth it to throw a pair outside, and document ur experiences on the forum really well. Would you be pulling the fry? Would rams parent? I must admit I don’t remember a whole lot on ram breeding off the top of my head 😅 but it’s something I plan on doing in the future, so I’m very intrigued. Also, not to derail the post, but the mention of doing apistos outside also caught my attention and now I might try and do that 😂

I’d let parents raise fry. I might toss in a few Rooibos tea bags for tannins. For Apistos, I’d add oak leaves and alder cones (along with caves). But they probably would struggle with temp highs more than Rams. Better to have ponds in ground to regulate temp.