Anyone Keeping / Breeding Xenotoca Doadrioi?

[Fish Folk]

19 minutes ago, mountaintoppufferkeeper said:

I believe the lower pressure helps with encouraging spawning when fish initially arrive since it really tends to kick off those first 7 days in quarantine.

Makes sense. Storm fronts moving through lower BP, and triggers spawning. Just did a simple science experiment: (1) boil water in pan on stove (2) pour into large mason jar and cover with plastic wrap (3) just when bubbles stop rising, place a frozen cold pack on top outside surface of plastic wrap... the jar begins to boil again! Cold air drops pressure, and pressure from heated water responds. I think it’s the same thing on a micro-scale with fish. They are used to certain pressures at certain barometric levels in aquaria, but when low pressure on air surface draws out (on a micro level) their organs, they are triggered. So... one way to trigger some fish to spawn may be to lay cold packs across lexan / glass lids to simulate storm... just a random idea! 

[Wingman12r]

Andrew Piorkowski's youtube channel has a lot of good information on several types of Goodeids.

[Fish Folk]

Yes! Piorkowski does have a nice video series on them, and some nice articles written.  

[Shade]

On 12/14/2020 at 11:03 PM, Fish Folk said:

Wow, Lynze! Yours look fantastic. Thanks for the feedback. We've been seeing them enjoy Bug Bites Spirulina flakes, and Omega One Kelp Flakes. Both ingredients do have a pretty hardy mix of protein in. The breeder we got them from recommended tossing over duckweed for them to graze on. They do seem hungry all day long! Lights off right now on Eastern Time Zone, but we'll try to upload some photos here tomorrow. We have 2x mature males, 2x mature females, and four young ones -- one of which is starting to show a hint of red on the tail (probably 3x females / 1x male juveniles). Our temperature in the basement fishroom is hanging out at about 69-degrees Fahrenheit right now. 

I notice that in the photos you shared, the female in the top photo does not appear to have much by way of spotting coloration. Do some females have a speckled lateral line appearance, while others look more like female guppies? Or is this a maturity thing? Just curious.

Lol in my experience they do NOT eat duckweed but then again I overfeed mine. My original breeders had bent spines and tails so I've taken them out but all of my babies have been fine feeding a variety of foods. It seems to me that females have more patterning and males with have less pattern and develop color and their color does NOT depend on water change or any of that it's just when they decide to show. My X.D. and Ataeniobius Toweri show colors I've never seen in any other specimens and I don't change water but they can be very colorful one second and dull another. 

[Fish Folk]

On 6/20/2021 at 3:18 PM, Shade said:

Lol in my experience they do NOT eat duckweed but then again I overfeed mine. My original breeders had bent spines and tails so I've taken them out but all of my babies have been fine feeding a variety of foods. It seems to me that females have more patterning and males with have less pattern and develop color and their color does NOT depend on water change or any of that it's just when they decide to show. My X.D. and Ataeniobius Toweri show colors I've never seen in any other specimens and I don't change water but they can be very colorful one second and dull another. 

They’re a lot of fun! We’ve got 30+ going now. I’m going to have to figure out how to move these. Our LFS isn’t really into cool temp fish 😅

[Shade]

On 6/20/2021 at 3:21 PM, Fish Folk said:

They’re a lot of fun! We’ve got 30+ going now. I’m going to have to figure out how to move these. Our LFS isn’t really into cool temp fish 😅

That's awesome! I have about 100 rn and about 60 of the Ataeniobius Toweri and I am going to be working with an online retailer so you could look into that or get a Band account and ship fish. They look great idk how people take such good pictures I feel like my phone sucks or something lol

[Johncamp]

Bumping an old thread. Just got some X.doadrioi at a meet and have never kept goodeids. Any advice for parameters, keeping them happy and breeding? 

[Fish Folk]

On 11/12/2022 at 9:41 PM, Johncamp said:

Bumping an old thread. Just got some X.doadrioi at a meet and have never kept goodeids. Any advice for parameters, keeping them happy and breeding? 

I have never found them particularly hard to keep. It took mine awhile to want to breed. There seems to be a window of the female life cycle where they're spawning. Neither those females too young, nor those too old seem to produce for me.

My water is soft -- 2-3 drops KH. pH from the tap is 7.8-8.0, but drifts toward neutral in a planted tank. I keep mine in with a bunch of plants. I use two sponge filters plus an added airstone,and  keep at room temperature -- which settles down to ca. 65-F in the winter / bumps up to 78-F in the summer. I perform a 25-50% water change once every two weeks. I find that mine drop fry in the spring and fall, depending on how many mature females I have going. Typically, females will drop a few fry every three months (unlike Guppies that drop monthly). But probably due to temperature variations, mine like the late spring and fall best.

I feed them a variety of foods -- always being sure to include greens. I feed them Spirulina Bug Bites flakes at least every other day. I also really like to feed them Omega One Kelp flakes. I will do other flake foods higher in protein sometimes. They get live baby brine shrimp nearly every other day.

Here are a few videos.

(1) A ew young males pulled in a specimen container. They were really shy, so didn't do much. Just shows them developing some color. My line is not as vibrant as some others...

(2) Here are a couple of newborn fry. They will have a trophotaenia hanging underneath them that looks like white poop. It is an umbilical-like cord that stays attached for a day or so from their live birth. Fry tend to find their way towards the surface...

(3) Here is a look at the colony I keep and breed them in. It is a 20 gal long aquarium. I started with 8x from John Mangan, Goaded specialist in my fish club (PVAS), and have bred over 100x since then. His original stock was imported by the Goaded Working Group for ALA Convention awhile back . . . 10+ years. So mine are very, very inbred. I keep shells in my water just to slightly boost mineral release. I have a bag of crushed coral hidden in there too (if I recall).

Here is a great website to study: http://www.goodeidworkinggroup.com/xenotoca-doadrioi

There was a thread on the forum here just yesterday where someone got a nice male that was either X. doadrioi or X. eiseni. There's some taxonomical debate about the two subspecies . . . but that is above my pay grade.

I learned about these from Greg Sage at Select Aquatics. I absolutely adore his work, and promise you that you've never received a better aquarium related e-mail reply than a long, thorough, thoughtful Sage reply. Here is his brief write-up about X. doadrioi: http://www.selectaquatics.com/Xenotoca eiseni San Marcos.htm 

You can see his line in the video below (labeled X. eiseni)

For an in-depth conversation, I loved this talk Irene had with him in his fishroom. So inspiring...

Hope that gets you inspired! Let me know if you have more questions.

[Johncamp]

On 11/13/2022 at 3:08 AM, Fish Folk said:

I have never found them particularly hard to keep. It took mine awhile to want to breed. There seems to be a window of the female life cycle where they're spawning. Neither those females too young, nor those too old seem to produce for me.

My water is soft -- 2-3 drops KH. pH from the tap is 7.8-8.0, but drifts toward neutral in a planted tank. I keep mine in with a bunch of plants. I use two sponge filters plus an added airstone,and  keep at room temperature -- which settles down to ca. 65-F in the winter / bumps up to 78-F in the summer. I perform a 25-50% water change once every two weeks. I find that mine drop fry in the spring and fall, depending on how many mature females I have going. Typically, females will drop a few fry every three months (unlike Guppies that drop monthly). But probably due to temperature variations, mine like the late spring and fall best.

I feed them a variety of foods -- always being sure to include greens. I feed them Spirulina Bug Bites flakes at least every other day. I also really like to feed them Omega One Kelp flakes. I will do other flake foods higher in protein sometimes. They get live baby brine shrimp nearly every other day.

Here are a few videos.

(1) A ew young males pulled in a specimen container. They were really shy, so didn't do much. Just shows them developing some color. My line is not as vibrant as some others...

(2) Here are a couple of newborn fry. They will have a trophotaenia hanging underneath them that looks like white poop. It is an umbilical-like cord that stays attached for a day or so from their live birth. Fry tend to find their way towards the surface...

(3) Here is a look at the colony I keep and breed them in. It is a 20 gal long aquarium. I started with 8x from John Mangan, Goaded specialist in my fish club (PVAS), and have bred over 100x since then. His original stock was imported by the Goaded Working Group for ALA Convention awhile back . . . 10+ years. So mine are very, very inbred. I keep shells in my water just to slightly boost mineral release. I have a bag of crushed coral hidden in there too (if I recall).

Here is a great website to study: http://www.goodeidworkinggroup.com/xenotoca-doadrioi

There was a thread on the forum here just yesterday where someone got a nice male that was either X. doadrioi or X. eiseni. There's some taxonomical debate about the two subspecies . . . but that is above my pay grade.

I learned about these from Greg Sage at Select Aquatics. I absolutely adore his work, and promise you that you've never received a better aquarium related e-mail reply than a long, thorough, thoughtful Sage reply. Here is his brief write-up about X. doadrioi: http://www.selectaquatics.com/Xenotoca eiseni San Marcos.htm 

You can see his line in the video below (labeled X. eiseni)

For an in-depth conversation, I loved this talk Irene had with him in his fishroom. So inspiring...

Hope that gets you inspired! Let me know if you have more questions.

Thank you for the reply! I’m so excited to have this fish. The adults haven’t taken to much food yet but there still very new. Working on getting my pH up for them. I will be reaching out with questions if that’s fine. 

[Johncamp]

@Fish Folk

An update. I can’t seem to get them interested in eating. I have tried various foods including freeze dried brine, mixed flake, green flake, frozen blood worms, carnivore pellets, rephasy, algae wafers. Unlike most other fish I’ve kept that tend to gobble up food as soon as I feed them, the Goodeids don’t. The fry seem to nibble a fair bit on the brine and sometimes the flake. The adults will come check out the food, sometimes nibble, but mostly spit it out then swim away. I leave the blood worms in throughout the day and most seems to go away by the end of the day. I have tried garlic extract to the flakes and they come to check it out but don’t necessarily eat. I asked the breeder and have been feeding them basically the same diet. Do I just give it time or is there something I should do? The fish still seem healthy for now. I’ve seen the female with some poop and a few of the fry with poop. I appreciate the help.

[Fish Folk]

Have you tried live foods?

[Johncamp]

I tried live baby brine once. It was my first time hatching them and it didn't work out well I think because of the heat?

I am trying another batch. Other live foods worth trying?

[Fish Folk]

On 11/20/2022 at 10:56 PM, Johncamp said:

I tried live baby brine once. It was my first time hatching them and it didn't work out well I think because of the heat?

I am trying another batch. Other live foods worth trying?

Let's try to dial this all in.

How many X. doadrioi, what sexes, and what life stage are they at (i.e. juvenile or mature)?

What size aquarium are you keeping them in?

Is it a planted setup?

How are you filtering the tank?

What is the flow like in your aquarium?

What kind of lighting are you running and how wide a photo period?

What are your parameters -- Temp? pH? KH? GH? Nitrate?

Did you acquire them through the mail -- were they flown in? Or did you get them some other way?

What did the breeder you got them from say he was feeding them?

_______________________

I feed mine a diet that regularly consists of Bug Bits Spirulina Flakes and Omega One Kelp Flakes. My understanding has been that these Goodeids require greens in their diet.

I also feed them live baby brine shrimp every other day or so. Occasionally, I toss in a frozen cube of Daphnia. I avoid blood worms, mysis, etc.

[Johncamp]

On 11/20/2022 at 8:06 PM, Fish Folk said:

Let's try to dial this all in.

How many X. doadrioi, what sexes, and what life stage are they at (i.e. juvenile or mature)?

What size aquarium are you keeping them in?

Is it a planted setup?

How are you filtering the tank?

What is the flow like in your aquarium?

What kind of lighting are you running and how wide a photo period?

What are your parameters -- Temp? pH? KH? GH? Nitrate?

Did you acquire them through the mail -- were they flown in? Or did you get them some other way?

What did the breeder you got them from say he was feeding them?

_______________________

I feed mine a diet that regularly consists of Bug Bits Spirulina Flakes and Omega One Kelp Flakes. My understanding has been that these Goodeids require greens in their diet.

I also feed them live baby brine shrimp every other day or so. Occasionally, I toss in a frozen cube of Daphnia. I avoid blood worms, mysis, etc.

I have a mature male and female, an adolescent male with about 5-6 fry

They are in a 20L

It is planted with a Amazon sword, some java fern, and a few pogo stem octopus

I have a sponge filter and an air stone in the tank

I have fluval light that I keep on for 8 hours/day

The tank is at 67F Parameters are pH about 6.8, I have acidic water I try to combat with crushed coral, Kh is about 40, hardness is about 75, Nitrates are about 25. 

I bought them at an auction. The breeder said they were feed flakes, some pellets, frozen brine, bloodworms, and Repashy with live baby brine occasionally. 

[Fish Folk]

That sure is a puzzle! I wonder how yoyr water chemistry compares with the breeder / seller.

I’d try live baby brine. For my hatchery, I use 1-liter of water, 3x rounded tablespoons of API Aquarium Salt, and then add eggs… I do 1.5-2 tablespoons. Strong bubbler… wait 36 hrs.

But honestly, mine hammer flake food.

 

[Johncamp]

On 11/21/2022 at 3:26 AM, Fish Folk said:

That sure is a puzzle! I wonder how yoyr water chemistry compares with the breeder / seller.

I’d try live baby brine. For my hatchery, I use 1-liter of water, 3x rounded tablespoons of API Aquarium Salt, and then add eggs… I do 1.5-2 tablespoons. Strong bubbler… wait 36 hrs.

But honestly, mine hammer flake food.

 

All I know is the breeders pH was a bit higher around 7 but haven’t been able to get there because my water is pretty acidic and I have to do frequent changes for now. I’m hoping they come around. They don’t seem distressed. The male seems to chase the female a bit. Not sure if that’s mating behavior? He also doesn’t seem to like when the adolescent is near her. Are they less interest in food when trying to mate? 

[Fish Folk]

On 11/21/2022 at 12:04 PM, Johncamp said:

Are they less interest in food when trying to mate? 

I haven’t really observed that much. Maybe she’s dropping fry, and they’re chowing down?? 

[Johncamp]

On 11/21/2022 at 11:22 AM, Fish Folk said:

I haven’t really observed that much. Maybe she’s dropping fry, and they’re chowing down?? 

Not sure. She doesn’t seem gravid but I can’t say I would now what a gravid female looks like as I’ve never kept this fish. The male does seem territorial towards the juvenile. The juvenile made some poop so it seems there at least eating something.
 

I unfortunate will be away for the holiday so I have an auto feeder to get them through the next couple days. Fingers crossed.  

[Johncamp]

On 11/21/2022 at 11:22 AM, Fish Folk said:

I haven’t really observed that much. Maybe she’s dropping fry, and they’re chowing down?? 

Good call! I came back to some new fry.