Brown Algae - over a year

[Crashnburn7]

Hello Everyone,

I have been fighting brown algae for close to a year and a half and no real sign of it stopping.  I have watched all the videos I could that Cory has posted on this and have tried everything.  I know its some sort of balance I am missing but I am unsure now which direction to go, as all I seem to be doing is making changes every few weeks.  I am using a Finnex 24/7 planted+ on a 39 gallon.  My nitrates usually stay around 40/80 whether I add fertilizers or not.  

I have not fertilized in well over a month and still keeping a consistent reading.  It is primarily on my sprites but it does go to other plants too.  I clean off as much as I can every week.  At this point I think I have 2 issues:  #1 - over feeding and #2 I am thinking needs to be a light adjustment, but I don't know if I need to increase or decrease as I have done both (but maybe not enough).  Should I start with an increase, or a decrease?  

Let me know what other information you would need to provide suggestions. 

Thanks,

Steve

[Colu]

Minimum lights plant need is eight hours  do you use seachem excel  it help control alge 

[Colu]

You can spot treat seachem flourish excel it can kill black brush if put directly on algae be careful not to over dose I don't no if it would kill brown algae

Edited December 6, 2020 by Colu

[test.tin]

I would keep your light levels the same. Since the current light level you have are growing the plants well (as far as i can tell from the picture). Well keep that the same for now since i think that isn't the problem.

The biggest red flag for me is the nitrate. 40 to 80 ppm nitrates is very high, especially if you're not dosing fertilizers. That means 2 things. You're overfeeding (like you said), the amount of water your change isn't enough/frequent enough to get rid of the excess nitrates. Ideally you want an average of 10-20ppm of nitrates FROM the fertilizer. Having 10-20ppm of nitrates from your fertilizer also means that your plants are also supplied with the other macro and micro nutrients that they need, since fertilizers come with them. 

What is the temperature of your tank? Higher temperature can cause algae to pop up easier.

How much are you changing for water change? how often?

Edited December 6, 2020 by test.tin
10-20ppm NOT 20-30ppm

[Crashnburn7]

Thanks Colu,

I am trying to find the balance, because I remove it manually every week and I get most of it.  I think it is probably on everything at this point, so I am trying to find a way to find the balance.  

My light is currently around 8 hours and ends in a low blue light for a couple more.  I have it ramping up and ramping down for a 10-12 hour period of time. 

[Crashnburn7]

Hi test.tin,

I change water (25-30%) and clean algae/trim plants every Sunday.  One of Cory's suggestion was to add fertilizer to add the additional nutrients, which I tried.  I saw no difference with the nitrates.  Tank ranges from 75-77 depending on how high I keep my heat or how cold it is outside.  

Here is a pic to compare after I did plant maintenance and did a water change today. 

I know it may be hard to tell via the pics, but it is a significant difference.  I would need to take close ups before and after. 

-Steve

[test.tin]

What I was trying to say is that, your tank sitting at 40-80ppm of nitrates is too high, especially if you're not dosing fertilizer, that means you have a lot of excess nutrients from fish waste or uneaten food. What you want to do is lower the amount of nitrates you have first, more water changes/less food.

Once it is at a lower level, THEN you should add fertilizer to bring the nitrates back to 10-20ppm. Having 10-20ppm from fertilizer means your plants are supplied with a variety of different nutrients that fish food/waste won't give them.

[Crashnburn7]

Thanks,

I understand what you were saying, I was hoping there was a way to do it more naturally.  Should I just gravel vac 3x per week or more until I see it drop? Is the nitrates really too high, or is it the wrong kind? 

My guess is overfeeding is killing me, I have 4 corydoras, 2 pleco, 1 pictus and an angel fish.  I water test every Saturday and change water on Sunday.  I have been feeding shrimp pellets because that has seemed to be the biggest hit amongst all of the fish.  Is there something better I can feed where I can control it better?  I have to do a lot of target feeding. 

thanks again!

[Colu]

Hikari micro wafers or micro  pellets Sera wood chips are good for  plecs last a long time before breaking up

[test.tin]

On 12/6/2020 at 4:02 PM, Crashnburn7 said:

Thanks,

I understand what you were saying, I was hoping there was a way to do it more naturally.  Should I just gravel vac 3x per week or more until I see it drop? Is the nitrates really too high, or is it the wrong kind? 

My guess is overfeeding is killing me, I have 4 corydoras, 2 pleco, 1 pictus and an angel fish.  I water test every Saturday and change water on Sunday.  I have been feeding shrimp pellets because that has seemed to be the biggest hit amongst all of the fish.  Is there something better I can feed where I can control it better?  I have to do a lot of target feeding. 

thanks again!

When you say naturally, do you mean to not use fertilizers? If so, using fish poop will work to grow your plants. Using fertilizers in my opinion is just easier and assures that they are getting other macro and micro nutrients.

I believe the nitrates are too high. Plants can only use up so much nitrates/nutrients, any excess nitrates/nutrients will go into fueling the algae. That's why the general rule is to be about 10-20ppm. Enough nutrients for the plants, not too much that will lead to a bunch of algae.

Gravel vacuuming can help with lowering the nitrates. I would try upping the percentage for water change. Maybe try doing 50% water changes every week.  

Another thing you can try is to have more plants in your tank. You don't need to buy more plants, just cut and replant the one that you already have. I see that you have some water wisteria in your tank. You can leave it floating and that should help pretty well. For the water wisteria that are planted into the substrate, i would just trim those at half their current height, and then replant those trimmings. Continue to do that for awhile, and you'll have fuller/denser plant mass that can help with the excess nutrients.

Also, try putting in some snails to help eat some of that up. I personally like nerites cus they can't reproduce in freshwater and they are good at eating algae.

 

 

[L.W. Wetarm]

Seachem PhosGuard and snails are what keep it inline for me. 

[FishyThoughts]

What substrate are you using? If it’s not an inert substrate such as gravel or sand, then that could be contributing to your elevated nitrates. 
 

And I couldn’t find the article I read awhile back, and hopefully I’m remembering it correctly... But I believe it mentioned that algae can use the blue light spectrum easier than other plants. So the 2 hrs of blue light at the end of your day could be contributing to algae growth. Also, algae is supposed to take longer to recover from dark periods than other plants. You could try cycling your lights, such as 4 on, 4 off, 4 on.

 

The light cycling did help me with controlling the staghorn in my 20 cube. I having been using a 4/4/5 cycle for mine and my plants still grow like crazy. 

[Crashnburn7]

On 12/8/2020 at 3:48 AM, test.tin said:

When you say naturally, do you mean to not use fertilizers? If so, using fish poop will work to grow your plants. Using fertilizers in my opinion is just easier and assures that they are getting other macro and micro nutrients.

I believe the nitrates are too high. Plants can only use up so much nitrates/nutrients, any excess nitrates/nutrients will go into fueling the algae. That's why the general rule is to be about 10-20ppm. Enough nutrients for the plants, not too much that will lead to a bunch of algae.

Gravel vacuuming can help with lowering the nitrates. I would try upping the percentage for water change. Maybe try doing 50% water changes every week.  

Another thing you can try is to have more plants in your tank. You don't need to buy more plants, just cut and replant the one that you already have. I see that you have some water wisteria in your tank. You can leave it floating and that should help pretty well. For the water wisteria that are planted into the substrate, i would just trim those at half their current height, and then replant those trimmings. Continue to do that for awhile, and you'll have fuller/denser plant mass that can help with the excess nutrients.

Also, try putting in some snails to help eat some of that up. I personally like nerites cus they can't reproduce in freshwater and they are good at eating algae.

 

 

Hey test.tin, I use fertilizers, I just am trying to stay away from chemically treating my water if I don't.  Since your suggestions I have done more gravel vacuuming and slightly higher water change, I am just pinching off the hose so I am doing more gravel.  

I tested today about 20ppm 2 weeks in a row, so today I added a few squirts of easy green.  For some reason, I cannot keep nerites alive in my tank - longest was 3 weeks.  Couldnt figure out why, I could try again I suppose because that was over a year ago now. 

Thanks!

[Crashnburn7]

6 hours ago, FishyThoughts said:

What substrate are you using? If it’s not an inert substrate such as gravel or sand, then that could be contributing to your elevated nitrates. 
 

And I couldn’t find the article I read awhile back, and hopefully I’m remembering it correctly... But I believe it mentioned that algae can use the blue light spectrum easier than other plants. So the 2 hrs of blue light at the end of your day could be contributing to algae growth. Also, algae is supposed to take longer to recover from dark periods than other plants. You could try cycling your lights, such as 4 on, 4 off, 4 on.

 

The light cycling did help me with controlling the staghorn in my 20 cube. I having been using a 4/4/5 cycle for mine and my plants still grow like crazy. 

I am using ecocomplete.  I did get my nitrates down with extra gravel vaccing over the last two weeks.  I am using blue light in my lighting all throught out the day and ending in blue.  Should I cut it out or lower it? 

[FishyThoughts]

I will check if I can find the article about the manufactured substrates. (Better than trying to quote from memory) But since they have materials in them for promoting plant growth they do contribute to increases in ammonia, which results in higher nitrates. 
 

I did find an interesting article regarding the brown algae though. It discusses how diatoms are nutrient poor starting out and nothing really eats them, but as they age they increase nutrients and everything starts eating them. 

16.8. Brown Algae

AQUARIUMSCIENCE.ORG

There’s more references to other aspects dealing with aquariums as well. Seems like an interesting site. 
 

As for the lighting, I still need to work on getting mine setup and tuned in correctly. I can’t say how much of a difference the lighting really is or not. I had some nitrates that I was dealing with at the same time, so when I solved that problem it could have been what was helping with the algae more than the lighting. My nitrates were due to excessive buildup in the corner behind a Java fern I had on some wood. I don’t gravel vac much normally and that area was covered so it didn’t get vac’d. Downside of changing multiple things is you can’t specify how much something effects another. 
 

I know algae isn’t always an appealing site for the aquarium. But as previously mentioned 40-80ppm nitrates is on the high side. I would say to focus on trying to get that lowered and stable. And correcting that could also end up fixing your algae problems as well. Even if lowering the nitrates doesn’t fix your algae, the algae won’t hurt the fish so there’s plenty of time to deal with that. 

[Crashnburn7]

32 minutes ago, FishyThoughts said:

I will check if I can find the article about the manufactured substrates. (Better than trying to quote from memory) But since they have materials in them for promoting plant growth they do contribute to increases in ammonia, which results in higher nitrates. 
 

I did find an interesting article regarding the brown algae though. It discusses how diatoms are nutrient poor starting out and nothing really eats them, but as they age they increase nutrients and everything starts eating them. 

16.8. Brown Algae

AQUARIUMSCIENCE.ORG

There’s more references to other aspects dealing with aquariums as well. Seems like an interesting site. 
 

As for the lighting, I still need to work on getting mine setup and tuned in correctly. I can’t say how much of a difference the lighting really is or not. I had some nitrates that I was dealing with at the same time, so when I solved that problem it could have been what was helping with the algae more than the lighting. My nitrates were due to excessive buildup in the corner behind a Java fern I had on some wood. I don’t gravel vac much normally and that area was covered so it didn’t get vac’d. Downside of changing multiple things is you can’t specify how much something effects another. 
 

I know algae isn’t always an appealing site for the aquarium. But as previously mentioned 40-80ppm nitrates is on the high side. I would say to focus on trying to get that lowered and stable. And correcting that could also end up fixing your algae problems as well. Even if lowering the nitrates doesn’t fix your algae, the algae won’t hurt the fish so there’s plenty of time to deal with that. 

The reason I was leaning towards lighting in when I originally posted, is when I used the stock T5 that came with the kit, everything was fine, for several months - and I did it all manually.  When I got the finnex 24/7 planted+ within a couple months it started.  I did not do anything different, but change the light.  Now I have been manually cleaning it every week for probably close to 18 months.  I do know how to control the nitrates, but there are so many plants in there (there is over 50 floating water sprite) that I let the nitrates go as a test to see if the plants would just uptake it and let it resolve itself over time.  Not the case though.  I expiremented with adding extra fertalizer, as I saw that in one of cory's videos but within 2 weeks it was out of control and took me several hours to clean it, so I dialed it back again.  

I know it wont hurt my fish, but if it stays on the sprite and java fern too long, it starts to die back because it isnt getting light.  So as of now, I spend about an hour and a half every weekend manually cleaning it off.  I just cant see doing it long term.  I have another tank too and just got a 3rd, so I would like to spend time with other fish and setups vs cleaning algae.  

I know its growing, all that sprite came from one plant originally.  I planted out a 2nd tank and 3 of my friends tanks with it already as well and I remove a handful a week.  

I'm not sure if any of that helps more - but its becoming time consuming and I would like to expand the hobby, not just focus all my time on one tank. 

-Steve

[FishyThoughts]

I definitely understand that, not sure anyone gets in this hobby to just spend time on tank maintenance. Unfortunately it takes awhile to see results from a change made to an aquarium, unless its a drastic change. You could add snails to help with the algae. Just make sure you decide if you like snails in the tank  beforehand. If your not big on snails, get a couple that can’t reproduce in freshwater and they can be easily removed later. If you don’t mind snails, get ones that can reproduce in freshwater (wouldn’t have diatom algae problems, but could become snail problems for you). As previously mentioned Nerite snails could be a good option and could help decrease your maintenance time of scrubbing algae. 

[Crashnburn7]

6 minutes ago, FishyThoughts said:

I definitely understand that, not sure anyone gets in this hobby to just spend time on tank maintenance. Unfortunately it takes awhile to see results from a change made to an aquarium, unless its a drastic change. You could add snails to help with the algae. Just make sure you decide if you like snails in the tank  beforehand. If your not big on snails, get a couple that can’t reproduce in freshwater and they can be easily removed later. If you don’t mind snails, get ones that can reproduce in freshwater (wouldn’t have diatom algae problems, but could become snail problems for you). As previously mentioned Nerite snails could be a good option and could help decrease your maintenance time of scrubbing algae. 

If you didnt read a response I sent to someone else, I tried snails.  I cant keep them alive in that tank for over 3 weeks.  Not sure why.. but they just don't live. I may try again - its been well over a year.  

I dont make major changes - if I make any changes I do one at a time, I also journal it all.  So, I am not necessarily a newby at this, I just cant understand why I cant get rid of this brown algae.   

[Crashnburn7]

I want to add - my other tank got brown algae for about a month - I did close to nothing.  its gone now.  I do the same thing but with a different style light.  

I attached a pic.  I dont know if it will help - Im just at a loss

[FishyThoughts]

Yeah, it’s a tough one. Brown algae isn’t one you normally hear everyone struggling with. I was setting my tank up for guppies and otocinclus, so the brown algae wasn’t an issue once they were added. Then there was some snail eggs that came on a plant. So dozens of snails later... not a speck of brown algae to be found. Though I’m not sure the otos needed the help. 
 

I’d probably look at adding 2 or 3 nerite snails, amano shrimp or another algae eating species that requires brackish water to breed. That would at least help you with maintaining that tank while trying to figure out the cause of the algae. 

[Crashnburn7]

5 minutes ago, FishyThoughts said:

Yeah, it’s a tough one. Brown algae isn’t one you normally hear everyone struggling with. I was setting my tank up for guppies and otocinclus, so the brown algae wasn’t an issue once they were added. Then there was some snail eggs that came on a plant. So dozens of snails later... not a speck of brown algae to be found. Though I’m not sure the otos needed the help. 
 

I’d probably look at adding 2 or 3 nerite snails, amano shrimp or another algae eating species that requires brackish water to breed. That would at least help you with maintaining that tank while trying to figure out the cause of the algae. 

Thanks Fishythoughts - I tried snails, as I said before, they just die.. The last tank I showed I am breeding guppies in, you cant see any because they move to fast.  I dont know what is going on either - but I think its a lighting issue, I just dont know how to adjust it - I have tried many times.  Maybe I will cut some of the blue out and wait a few weeks and see if it subsides. 

[FishyThoughts]

Oh, missed where you mentioned having tried snails. Did your fertilizer have copper in it? Snails are usually pretty resilient and wouldn’t imagine them dying otherwise.

You mentioned doing weekly water change, algae scrub and plant trimming. Have you done pre/post water test to see the effects the maintenance has on the tank? Post would need to be like a day later. Maybe all of that every week is too much which is why brown algae is always there. Maybe don’t trim plants every week. If not already, track your tank parameters (at least for awhile) to see how the changes end up effecting your tank. 

[Tanked]

On 12/6/2020 at 6:40 PM, Crashnburn7 said:

My light is currently around 8 hours and ends in a low blue light for a couple more.

Have you tried turning off the extra blue light?

[Crashnburn7]

I turned the blue lights off that were on at night and started in the morning about 2 days ago.  So we will wait and see now. 

Thanks!

[Bev C]

@Crashnburn7 I know this thread is late about a year old ,,  but it might help you or others with the finnex 24/7 light models  there is not much info on it and low light plants and no co2  might post a thread if i can get things right in my aquarium and tap water  maybe there is others with the Finnex light that wants to share their light schedule 

I have Finnex 24/7 ALC light  and the light intensity can be adjusted (custom 24/7 on the remote ,,)  The auto 24/7 they have by default is a algae magnet ,,I wrote to Finnex about the light 

They said the Finnex   ALC 24/7 auto and the light Max setting or light intensity 60 - 100% is for high light plants mostly with co2  light intensity 40-50% is for medium light plants  and light intensity 30-40 %is for low plants 

I have no co2 and I stared with low light plants and i started my lights at 30 % intensity 6-7 hours per day 4 hour siesta between and i turn my blue light s off 

Currently now i added a few more plants and a few medium light plants and i am using now the light at intensity to 40% 

but i know i can go to 50% intensity & go to 8 hours per day if I need to later on if i add more plants or  if they start growing,,, time will tell 

 

 

Edited March 7, 2022 by Bev C