My guppy pair won't breed - need advice

[umi]

I've had a trio of these beautiful albino koi glass belly short body ribbon guppies (say that 3 times fast) for a month now - one ribboned female, one ribboned male, and one non-ribboned male. The non-ribboned male is essential for me as the gonopodium needs to be short in order to properly inseminate and fertilize the female. This non-ribboned male was added to the tank about 2 weeks after getting my original pair, so he's been with them for a little over 2 weeks now.

Despite all that, I cannot for the life of me get them to breed! All my other guppies breed like rabbits and I see new fry in my main tank every time that I look, but no success with these little guys. Temp, pH, water parameters are all good. They are fed well and have an entire 10 gallon tank to themselves, save for 2 snails and some red cherries. Thus there should be absolutely no stress conditions on them.

It seems like the perfect conditions for at least fertilization to occur. The female's stomach has been growing with more and more eggs but I can tell that they have still not been fertilized as they should adopt an orange/pink hue. It's quite easy to tell when the female is properly fertilized as their bellies are, obviously, clear like glass. So now I'm turning to you guys to ask if anybody might have any advice or ideas for what might be the issue here. I have a few ideas myself, which I'll list below:
1. Too large of a tank to allow the male to do the deed (I have a 2.5 gallon that I'm currently raising shrimp in, but I worry that may be TOO small for more than a couple days)
2. The non-ribboned male is "scared"(?) of the female as she is 2-3 times his size
3. The presence of the ribboned male being in the tank before introduction of the non-ribboned male may be discouraging breeding.

This could probably be solved by just getting more males but they are super expensive and I'd like to keep that as a last option. Any ideas?

Edited August 7 by umi

[lefty o]

ribbontails  are fairly well known for having difficult times reproducing.

[umi]

On 8/7/2024 at 3:55 PM, lefty o said:

ribbontails  are fairly well known for having difficult times reproducing.

as I mentioned in my post I am aware of that hence why I also have a non-ribboned male. 

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

I think you’ve done all you can with getting a non-ribbon male. They could be fry eaters so having a small pond basket for the fry to hide in will be really important. Feeding live baby brine or other live foods can help trigger. She looks like she’s holding with that box like abdomen. I really wonder if they’re eating the fry. 

Can you give us your parameters and some more info on the setup? Is there substrate? What’s the pH, kH and gH? Temp?  pH >7, gH and kH I tend to shoot for harder water. I’ve had success with putting a filter sock of crushed coral in even a bare bottom tank and seen that rise in pH lead to better reproductive outcomes. The other thing is guppy breeders can be pretty unscrupulous- keeping them in near salt water and then shipping out without that info and then they fall apart. I’d often add aquarium salt to my livebearer tanks. 
 

They’re beautiful and I tried my hand at some albino sky blue ribbons a few years back but the good ol’ guppy train pulled into the station and the guppy’s fell apart within days. Have fun and let us know what you find! 

[Tony s]

I had a couple of thoughts @Beardedbillygoat1975 covered most of them. I’d make sure you have a fairly high gh for start. Second, there’s no guarantee that they’re not reproducing and then disappearing the fry. I’d definitely include more cover for the fry. Hornwort works really great for this. Or guppy grass, or water wisteria. That at least gives the fry that you could be having some cover. 

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

Here’s what I use - 

 

[lefty o]

with the pictures not being super clear, i am assuming the first pic is the 2 males. if i am seeing that right, its unlikely either of those males will ever breed successfully.

[umi]

On 8/8/2024 at 11:11 AM, lefty o said:

with the pictures not being super clear, i am assuming the first pic is the 2 males. if i am seeing that right, its unlikely either of those males will ever breed successfully.

the first pic is the male and female. male on the bottom and female on top. the second pic also has the second, non-ribboned male, located farthest on the left. 

 

On 8/8/2024 at 3:17 AM, Beardedbillygoat1975 said:

I think you’ve done all you can with getting a non-ribbon male. They could be fry eaters so having a small pond basket for the fry to hide in will be really important. Feeding live baby brine or other live foods can help trigger. She looks like she’s holding with that box like abdomen. I really wonder if they’re eating the fry. 

Can you give us your parameters and some more info on the setup? Is there substrate? What’s the pH, kH and gH? Temp?  pH >7, gH and kH I tend to shoot for harder water. I’ve had success with putting a filter sock of crushed coral in even a bare bottom tank and seen that rise in pH lead to better reproductive outcomes. The other thing is guppy breeders can be pretty unscrupulous- keeping them in near salt water and then shipping out without that info and then they fall apart. I’d often add aquarium salt to my livebearer tanks. 
 

They’re beautiful and I tried my hand at some albino sky blue ribbons a few years back but the good ol’ guppy train pulled into the station and the guppy’s fell apart within days. Have fun and let us know what you find! 

There is fluval stratum substrate, I'll attach a pic of the setup below. pH is 7.2, kH and gH idk, temp is 78. I have cuttlebone I could use to raise pH even further but I think it's fine as it is. In regards to the fry, albino koi are notorious for devouring fry but I don't believe this is the issue here. I've been watching her every day since getting her, and with her being a glass belly and all it would be extremely easy to tell when the fry are developed and ready to pop out. That's never happened. She still has just as many eggs, if not more. 

 

*not really sure why the picture is upside down but you get the idea*

Edited August 8 by umi

[Kurt Brutting]

I owe my guppy breeding success to my hard water. I breed my guppies in super hard water. The females love it.  I use 1 Zoo Med Nano Banquet Block a week and my GH is off the charts for my 10 gallon guppy breeder tanks. I am not sure if this is your issue, but I would definitely check your GH just to be sure. 

[Tony s]

On 8/8/2024 at 2:29 PM, umi said:

have cuttlebone I could use to raise pH even further but I think it's fine

It is. Also raises gh to a good level 

[WhitecloudDynasty]

I noticed the super fancy guppy drop less fry and less often then the normal guppy.

Albino, koi, ribbon, glass body, short body...thats alot of line breeding/ inbreeding to get. They are beautiful fish and looks very healthy tho

[umi]

On 8/9/2024 at 1:49 AM, WhitecloudDynasty said:

I noticed the super fancy guppy drop less fry and less often then the normal guppy.

Albino, koi, ribbon, glass body, short body...thats alot of line breeding/ inbreeding to get. They are beautiful fish and looks very healthy tho

Yes, they are unbelievably strong fish. I once transferred the ribbon male to my main tank for a night but had to move him back after noticing some fin nipping (presumably from the one other male guppy in the tank). Long story short, despite dropsy + severe pineconing AND secondary bacterial/fungal infection in the gills, he somehow pulled through thanks to the mystical powers of epsom salt and meds. I couldn't believe it.

I'm sure some of my difficulties can be attributed to just how intricate of a strain they are genetically, but I'm starting to think it also has something to do with their social behavior. The same time that I moved the ribbon male to my main tank, the female became visibly depressed... they seem much more codependent than my other run of the mill guppies. I've bought 10 fry to try to give them some more friends in the hopes that it will make them happier and a little more willing to do the deed 😆. If not, at least more numbers will probably increase my chances...

 

On 8/8/2024 at 8:42 PM, Tony s said:

It is. Also raises gh to a good level 

Would substrate and rocks also contribute to this? I have fluval stratum and a good few seiryu rocks in the tank. 

[Tony s]

On 8/11/2024 at 5:30 PM, umi said:

I have fluval stratum and a good few seiryu rocks in the tank

Haven’t used stratum. Seiryu will raise it, but very slowly.  Kind of need a gh and ph numbers. Ph above 7 and gh above 8 or preferably higher would be good 

[mynameisnobody]

Watching Dans fish livestream a couple of weeks ago and he said that albino strains of guppies are notorious for eating fry. I believe I’ve heard Cory say the same thing.