Water readings

[Lee Friedmann]

When testing my water, the hardness shows as pink which isn’t on the bottle.  Is my water extremely hard or extremely soft?  What if anything should I add to the water.

My buffer and ph are very low.  What if anything should I add?

[Tony s]

On 5/30/2024 at 3:55 PM, Lee Friedmann said:

 What if anything should I add

Discus. you should definitely add discus.🤣

 

your ph says you have very soft water. you have a lot of options. what kind of fish would you like. understanding that live bearers, snails and african cichlids are going to be a lot more work as you'll need to keep adjusting your water for them. 

[Lennie]

On 5/30/2024 at 11:07 PM, Tony s said:

your ph says you have very soft water.

correct me if Im wrong, but ph is about  acidity and basicity, not hardness. 

Gh and tds readings refer to hardness (softness) of the water

[Tony s]

On 5/30/2024 at 5:46 PM, Lennie said:

correct me if Im wrong, but ph is about  acidity and basicity, not hardness

 There is a direct relationship between hardness and ph. Hardness comes from the amount of calcium and magnesium in the water. the most common form of calcium is calcium carbonate. calcium carbonate basically breaks down to calcium hydroxide which is a strong base. The more calcium the higher the ph is. 

Here this site explains it better than I can.

https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=d9e066257a3db667JmltdHM9MTcxNzAyNzIwMCZpZ3VpZD0wZTU0NmFiNi1jMWZhLTY4MDYtMWIzMi03OTAyYzAyOTY5YzQmaW5zaWQ9NTIwOQ&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=3&fclid=0e546ab6-c1fa-6806-1b32-7902c02969c4&psq=water+hardness+and+ph+relationship&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly93YXRlcm5pdHlsYWIuY29tL2hhcmQtd2F0ZXItcGgtbGV2ZWwtdnMtc29mdC13YXRlci1waC1sZXZlbHMtYWNpZGljLXZzLWFsa2FsaW5lLw&ntb=1

 

 

It's one of the reasons that regions with little to no calcium can have ph in the low to mid 5's, but most of us cannot

Edited May 30 by Tony s

[Rachel0825]

Consider mind blown 🤯 

[Tony s]

On 5/30/2024 at 7:15 PM, Rachel0825 said:

Consider mind blown 🤯 

LOL I know right. I used to love studying chemistry. even at Purdue. but, I must admit I was slightly wrong at the mode of action. But I could always see the correlation.🙂

[Biotope Biologist]

Oh…. OH! Ummmm your test strip is actually a manufacturing defect. It is missing the gh strip entirely. Notice how its supposed to test 6 parameters not 5.

 

The pink is nitrates.

@Cory have you ever seen something like this? These appear to be ACO testers

As for your second question depending on your gh you will likely want to add crushed coral to your water. It will raise your gh and kh, and to a lesser extent your pH. 

Edited May 31 by Biotope Biologist

[johnnyxxl]

Barbs lots of Barb's 

[Lee Friedmann]

On 5/31/2024 at 6:37 AM, Biotope Biologist said:

Oh…. OH! Ummmm your test strip is actually a manufacturing defect. It is missing the gh strip entirely. Notice how its supposed to test 6 parameters not 5.

 

The pink is nitrates.

@Cory have you ever seen something like this? These appear to be ACO testers

As for your second question depending on your gh you will likely want to add crushed coral to your water. It will raise your gh and kh, and to a lesser extent your pH. 

There are 6, you just don’t see the first square.

[Biotope Biologist]

On 5/31/2024 at 1:37 PM, Lee Friedmann said:

There are 6, you just don’t see the first square.

Ah then the pink one is a duplicate or the dye got washed out. Retest using a different strip and compare. The gh reading should not turn pink it should be varying shades of blue-purple

[face]

On 5/30/2024 at 6:06 PM, Tony s said:

 There is a direct relationship between hardness and ph. Hardness comes from the amount of calcium and magnesium in the water. the most common form of calcium is calcium carbonate. calcium carbonate basically breaks down to calcium hydroxide which is a strong base. The more calcium the higher the ph is. 

Here this site explains it better than I can.

https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=d9e066257a3db667JmltdHM9MTcxNzAyNzIwMCZpZ3VpZD0wZTU0NmFiNi1jMWZhLTY4MDYtMWIzMi03OTAyYzAyOTY5YzQmaW5zaWQ9NTIwOQ&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=3&fclid=0e546ab6-c1fa-6806-1b32-7902c02969c4&psq=water+hardness+and+ph+relationship&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly93YXRlcm5pdHlsYWIuY29tL2hhcmQtd2F0ZXItcGgtbGV2ZWwtdnMtc29mdC13YXRlci1waC1sZXZlbHMtYWNpZGljLXZzLWFsa2FsaW5lLw&ntb=1

 

 

It's one of the reasons that regions with little to no calcium can have ph in the low to mid 5's, but most of us cannot

I’m not sure this is entirely true in this case the calcium has no corresponding acid so it doesn’t buffer the waters ph if you had a sealed container with high levels of calcium in it it would have a higher ph but when exposed to air it would precipitate out into calcium carbonate the ph would drop until the carbonate and bicarbonate and carbonic acid equals out

in short there’s no buffering system that works with calcium 

As for the op question this test strips are definitely strange but also remember test strips and home kits test aren completely accurate at the best of time there all kinds of stuff that can go wrong for example ppm means the amount of something by weight but our test only knows the amount by molecule calcium magnesium iron. They all weigh different amounts, but our tests can’t tell which one it’s testing. Just something to keep in mind 

Edited May 31 by face

[Galabar]

On 5/31/2024 at 2:21 PM, face said:

I’m not sure this is entirely true in this case the calcium has no corresponding acid so it doesn’t buffer the waters ph if you had a sealed container with high levels of calcium in it it would have a higher ph but when exposed to air it would precipitate out into calcium carbonate the ph would drop until the carbonate and bicarbonate and carbonic acid equals out

in short there’s no buffering system that works with calcium 

As for the op question this test strips are definitely strange but also remember test strips and home kits test aren completely accurate at the best of time there all kinds of stuff that can go wrong for example ppm means the amount of something by weight but our test only knows the amount by molecule calcium magnesium iron. They all weigh different amounts, but our tests can’t tell which one it’s testing. Just something to keep in mind 

I think you are correct.  It is possible to have, for example, 100% calcium chloride with no carbonates.  Here's an interesting discussion:

https://www.chemicalforums.com/index.php?topic=35881.0

Edited June 1 by Galabar

[Tony s]

On 5/31/2024 at 5:21 PM, face said:

calcium has no corresponding acid so it doesn’t buffer the waters

Has absolutely nothing to do with the buffering capacity of the carbonate.

CaCO₃ + H₂O = Ca²⁺ + CO₂ + 2 OH^–

pH = 14 – log [OH^–] = 14 – log [CaCO₃/2]

or stated slightly better calcium carbonate in an aqueous solution breaks down into calcium hydroxide and carbon dioxide. Calcium hydroxide is a basic compound, not a buffer. Now, the reaction is not very strong and reaches a saturation point relatively quickly. If was a strong reaction you’d lose the carbonate very quickly and have very limited buffering capacity at all. 

CaCO₃ + H₂O = CO₂ + Ca(OH)₂

_{using observational data. When you look at usda’s national ph maps and compare them directly with the hardness maps, they overlap almost exactly. Where there is hardness, ph run high. Which is the majority of the US.}

_{but, anyway, I thought it was fairly obvious. I had thought that most people already would have figured it out.} 

[Tony s]

@Lee Friedmann  honestly wasn’t kidding about the discus, much. If that’s truly what’s coming from your tap. You’re basically blessed (or cursed, depending) with almost ro water from the tap. You have oh so many options. You can run a ph of 6 or lower quite easily. Gives you access to almost all South American fish. Including ph sensitive species (like discus) and the full range of wild caught species as well. I’d maybe add a bit of buffering agent ( not much) to help stabilize your ph. Seachem makes and acid and alkalinity buffer that you can target a specific ph and keep it stable. 
 

now if you want things like guppies or platys or snails, you’ll have to add an element of gh as well. Seachem equilibrium works well for this. It adds both calcium and magnesium to your water. Most products only add calcium. If you opt for this route it is going to be more difficult. You’d need to be very consistent with the addition of chemicals to keep your water at the same levels every water change. But it’s doable. 
 

but it really does depend on what fish you want. The one that really hits the right way.

 

and I would redo that test strip. The pink in the gh spot is a bit odd.

[Lee Friedmann]

This explains why we’ve had such a difficulty keeping our snails alive.

[Tony s]

On 6/1/2024 at 1:17 AM, Lee Friedmann said:

This explains why we’ve had such a difficulty keeping our snails alive

You have a couple of good options. You’re going to want a gh of around 140. And kh close to the same. Your ph needs to be very close to neutral. You can use the Seachem products. They’ll have mixing instructions for your target. You can use aragonite or crushed coral in your substrate. That will dissolve over time and give you the numbers you want. You can use wondershell in the tank and it will also dissolve. But in a spot that is easily accessible. The only downside to the dissolving compounds is that you’ll have a bit of a gh and ph dip after your water changes. But that should be fine. Other people do it, you’ll maybe have a bigger swing through.