Why can't I clean?

[Cinnebuns]

I've been in the hobby and this tank has been set up long enough to not have this issue but heeeeeere we are!

10 gallon tank. Sand substrate. 2 sponge filters (one Hikari and one ACO).  Blue Velvet Shrimp and cory fry. The cory fry hatch in here then at roughly 2 weeks are moved. 

Problem:  waste buildup all over the tank covering every surface. I have siphoned and used a turkey baster almost every day for a week. There is one spot it tends to buildup the most per how the flow goes in the tank so I tend to suck up that area. The stuff on the top of the sand is difficult to get. I clean the sponges and they barely have anything in them and go back to being snowed on in a few hours. Even the moss is completely "snowed" on. 

The tank has been functioning as a shrimp tank as well as cory hatchery for almost 3 years now and has never had this problem. A few months ago I hatched out about 5x more cories than I ever have before. I'm assuming that's why all the buildup. Any tips for getting this mess cleared out?  Do I just need to turkey baster every day for awhile?

Sorry I didn't get a pic of the pile that usually gathers. I realized I wanted to make this post after cleaning it. Maybe I'll snap one tomorrow. 

Edited May 8 by Cinnebuns

[Pepere]

You might consider a filter optimized for mechanical filtration while working to clean it up.  Perhaps a hob filled with polyfill, or an internal power filter filled with polyfill.

 

In my 17 gallon fish bowl a hob or internal filter wasnt really an option given the round sides.  I put in a medium Lee’s triple flow box filter with gravel to weigh it down and then polyfill.  I put on an Aquarium Co Op Easy Flow kit on it as it friction fits well on the top nipple and the flow with a dedicated tetra whisper air pump driving it is amazing. 
 

floss goes from pure white to a thick goopy brown slime on top in the course of a week…

When I first started the tank I tried just a modified ugf plate with easy flow kit adapted.  Biofiltration was fine but the substrate BDBS quickly got dirty and I was dealing with a fair amount of filamentous type algae.I pulled out plants and hardscape and used a turkey baster to puff the substrate and hoover over the cloud of debris with the gravel vac and repeated every few days for a week and fitted the Lee’s.

 

after the first week, the combination of the Lees and the gravel puffing and vacuuming the gravel stopped blowing out clouds…. Since then I don't use the Turkey baster anymore as it really isn't doing anything.  I just do a weekly 50% water change and squeeze out the polyfill in water to clean it up for another week.  No real need to throw it out, a couple squeezes and anything that will come out, has…. Save the landfill and resources…

[T. Payne]

Are you feeding heavy and what kind of food are you feeding?

[Cinnebuns]

On 5/7/2024 at 9:26 PM, T. Payne said:

Are you feeding heavy and what kind of food are you feeding?

Feeding first bites for the cory fry and nothing more. 

[T. Payne]

To me, it appears that is from over feeding.

[TOtrees]

Two issues or questions here... why, and what to do about it. 

Based on your narrative (never a problem, now a problem) It almost seems like something is acting as flocculant (like seachem clarity, a chemical that causes tiny particles to glom together into bigger particles so they settle and/or can be filtered out). Assuming you're not adding a flocculant, I don't know why it might be occurring. 

As for fixing it, I'm not likely to say anything you haven't already considered, but will float options anyways, just for the dialog. Increased flow and/or disturbance of the substrate to (re)suspend all those particles, plus a filter to capture and remove them. For the latter, I like a hob mounted on the front of the tank (so I can remove and clean out the basket more easily). For the disturbance, consider small kuhlis or habrosus cories. They should lift stuff up, without smashing your baby cories. Or add a small power head, with the flow aimed a bit down somehow. 

[Flumpweesel]

Has something moved to disrupt the flow ? a plant that has increased or some hardscape that you are trying somewhere else.  I agree that flow is what can help you this is just my thought on why in an established tank this is a new issue. 

You might be able to solve the problem with an extra air line just to get a bit more flow in there. 

My first thought was black gravel is the issue it shows everything !!  - I'm natural pebble in my tanks it hides a lot. 

[Cinnebuns]

On 5/8/2024 at 6:22 AM, TOtrees said:

For the disturbance, consider small kuhlis or habrosus cories.

There are young panda cory juveniles in there already. 

 

On 5/8/2024 at 6:35 AM, Flumpweesel said:

Has something moved to disrupt the flow ?

Nope. The only change was that sudden increase in cory fry a few months ago. 

On 5/8/2024 at 6:35 AM, Flumpweesel said:

My first thought was black gravel is the issue it shows everything !!  - I'm natural pebble in my tanks it hides a lot. 

Haha that's true. I got black for the shrimp.  They were going clear on me before with barebottom so I went extreme background change with black. 

[jwcarlson]

Certain foods, in my experience, tend to do that.  I never have build up like that with freeze dried black worms, tubifex, live BBS, or any of the Extreme foods I've fed.  But some of the black or earth worm sticks, especially, seem to leave a powder on everything.  My only guess is that it's "ash" or some sort of filler or binder that the fish don't like so it just swells up in some water and collects around the tank.  It's pervasive and difficult to clean.  I've never fed First Bites, but I would guess that's a big part of the issue.

Edited May 8 by jwcarlson

[Cinnebuns]

On 5/8/2024 at 7:06 AM, jwcarlson said:

Certain foods, in my experience, tend to do that.  I never have build up like that with freeze dried black worms, tubifex, live BBS, or any of the Extreme foods I've fed.  But some of the black or earth worm sticks, especially, seem to leave a powder on everything.  My only guess is that it's "ash" or some sort of filler or binder that the fish don't like so it just swells up in some water and collects around the tank.  It's pervasive and difficult to clean.  I've never fed First Bites, but I would guess that's a big part of the issue.

I have fed first bites the entire 3 years the tank has been running however not to the level I have recently because of the population boom. There could be something to that. 

[Tanked]

Reading this reminds me why I have never tried a sponge filter.  Can you turn up the air on the filter? 

I guess it is possible that your tank has reached a point of saturation due to over population, over feeding, or any combination of reasons.  If you can do it without endangering the animals, I would consider making the water as soupy as possible, including stirring up the gravel, and doing multiple water changes.  Alternatively, if you can't, or don't want to have more mechanical filtration, siphoning the soup through a fine filter bag may allow you to return the same water to the tank.

[MattyM]

If you go the mech filtration route, at least for cleanup, I've seen folks kinda "swirl" up the water to get all the gunk in suspension (the sand should quickly fall back down) and then the filter can catch more of it. Might need to do it a few times - good luck 👍

[johnnyxxl]

I have a small internal filter and use it like MD Aquatic does if I stir the mulm up.  But I don't worry as much as he does for perfection.  

It does wonders for cleaning up the water 

[Guppysnail]

On 5/8/2024 at 7:42 AM, Cinnebuns said:

Nope. The only change was that sudden increase in cory fry a few months ago. 

Just like the bacteria that eats ammonia nitrite etc. there is bacteria that breaks down solid waste and excess food. Extra fry you are feeding extra. By the looks way over feeding. Feed about half what you feed now and spread it out over more feedings. Seeing solid food means overfeeding.  That amount means drastically. 
Add something like Pondworks bacteria eith muck remover to increase your solids breakdown bacterial colony.

Fir Cory first bites use a pipette to squirt it on the substrate so it does not go everywhere the Cory are not eating m.  I have 80 Aspidora babies and 20 melini babies in a 10 gallon right now and that’s what I do. No excess debris in the tank. 

[Guppysnail]

I made a video for you to help. I’m a visual learner. I do this 2x as breakfast. As you see it’s a tiny amount rapidly consumed. 3-4x a day. That really is all they need. I do feed a wide variety but what’s in the video is first bites mixed with water  I suck up a tiny bit of first bites then suck up water and shake the pipette