Death and genetics?

[Sciurus]

Been experiencing some endler deaths lately, doesnt seem to be parisites or bacterial issues and as ive had them for 2 years without any issues. I'm wondering if mass breeding and inbreeding could cause genetic defects that lead to death especially in the case of livebearers when inbreeding is so common. Could genetic defects cause them to die at a certain age or make them mich more prone to dying? 

While this might not necessarily be the case with my endlers (as i havnt observed them enough to rule out other issues), im just wondering in general if this is a thing that happens?

[Tony s]

Death at a certain age. I don’t think that’s a thing. Death from physical defects or general unthriftiness is a definite thing. Not so much in endlers. But for sure in guppies, neon tetras, and bettas. I don’t believe it’s got to the endlers yet, it probably will. It’s actually gotten really hard to keep neons and guppies alive for very long. Depending on the source. Some guppies have good genes and do fine as well as wild caught neons. 

[doktor zhivago]

Smaller fish and especially live bearers are only gonna live for 2-3 years or so. Circle of life and all that. I think some of the larger livebearers like mollies may live a little longer.

In the wild these live bearers do a boom and bust cycle with seasonal floods in wet and dry seasons so there's no real selection pressure to make them long lived. They pop out a bunch of babies when conditions are good and hope that enough survive until the next wet season to start the cycle again. 

[Tony s]

On 5/1/2024 at 6:40 AM, doktor zhivago said:

Smaller fish and especially live bearers are only gonna live for 2-3 years or so

Yep, was actually going to say that.  Especially if you have no idea how old they are to begin with. And there’s genetic variation there as well. Some of my plates pass around 2, while others are still going strong.

 

@Sciurus more to the point of your question. Endlers genetics are good still. But for the most popular fish, the neons, bettas, and guppies, the genetics have been trashed. You can have perfect situations for them and still struggle to keep them alive. Depending on where you source them from.

[Biotope Biologist]

Breeding nearly constantly takes a toll on the body. Many small fish species can only have a handful of clutches before they pass.

 

As stated before 2 years out of breeding endlers is a pretty good lifespan. As for genetics it takes several generations of small population breeding to get inbreeding. You might notice more defects like scoliosis after f6 if you never diversify your brood.

[Tony s]

On 5/1/2024 at 10:08 AM, Biotope Biologist said:

Breeding nearly constantly takes a toll on the body

Extremely so. We keep very detailed records of the animals we do breed (not fish). There is a very definite monetary cost per breeding per animal. By the time they have gone through 4 breedings it becomes cost prohibitive to keep them producing. Depending on the animal. Average breeding for all animals ages is kept around 3.5 per female per herd. So an unbred female would expect to have twice the lifespan. Assuming it works exactly like that in fish as well 

[lefty o]

2-3 years is about normal, and assuming yours had  at least 3-6 months on them when you got them, they are falling right in that window.