Guppy Fin Clamp

[Guupy42]

After my water change this weekend, my guppy has been experiencing clamped fins, and maybe with a little bit of finrot. I tested the water, and most of the water was okay, except for the pH was a little high.

5 gallon tank with 3 male adult guppies and one Black Racer nerite snail

Ammonia: 0-0.5

Nitrate: 20

Nitrite: 0

GH: 75

KH: 120

pH: 7.8-8.4

____________________

With a recent water change, I noticed some brown stuff (possibly mulm) stuck to the filter intake, and when I moved it to scrub the glass, the mulm went all over the tank. I removed a lot of it through the gravel vacuuming, though. The day after the water change, I noticed some black edges, so I added salt (about 1 tbsp per 5 gallons) and he got a little more active. I have also been using some stress coat.

That has been all I was able to do, and I can't think of any other actions to take. I have Tetra Lifeguard tablets, but I can't use that because it will hurt my snail. I am skeptical about want using pH down, because the two times I have used it, a fish soon died after.

My fish has still had a good appetite, and is active, but sort of shimmies to get around, due to his clamped tail fin. He has this weird behavior of being very energetic in the day, but worn out and weak when it's close to nighttime. I noticed tonight that it got kind of triangular at the end, worse than it usually is.

Based on the given information, could someone identify the cause of stress and determine the right actions I should take? I know there have been mentions of guppy fin clamp on this forum (from 2020), but I couldn't find anything too useful in there, so I would like to bring it up again. There are also not many websites talking about fin clamp in general, most of them were forums.

Edited April 2 by Guupy42

[Tony s]

First thing. Guppies love hard water. And higher ph. Almost All live bearers do. So ph is not the issue. Especially do not use ph down. There are better ways. But you don’t need them. 
if anything, you need more hardness in your water. You’re kh is good. But your gh is not. For guppies. 
 

ideal water for guppies. Ph8.  Gh 180-240. Kh 120-240 or close to that anyway. 
 

crushed coral or wonder shell can help you raise your gh. Gh of 75 is way too low. 
 

now this might not be your only issue though. You may have a low grade bacteria infection in the tank. Maracyn, or any erythromycin should help to clean that up. Used carefully by package directions it is snail safe 

[Guupy42]

Thank you for your advice.

I started to add another tablespoon of salt today, because it didn't seem to be getting better, with another 0.5 ml dose of Stress Coat. I also fed a little more than usual, in case my sick fish needed extra nutrients for the strength. (Food also contains calcium, right?)

Is there some other substitute to raise the GH I could try first before buying anything? There are some people that say that Tums can be used in a fish tank for snails and shrimp (Also good because my snail has minor shell damage), and there are a few websites talking about it.

2021 Forum Thread

Website

There also used to be an Aquarium Co Op video over this, but it got removed.

Most of them are just mentioning snails, so I am wondering if it can be used to alter the whole ecosystem's KH, pH, and GH, rather than just having a snail eat it. Another thing is, when I drop in some kind of tablet (e.g. Algae Wafers, Feeding Blocks) my guppies always go after it, even if it wasn't intended for them. If you know anything about this, could you inform me on the dosing quantities, risks, and benefits? That would be great. Thank you in advance.

 

[Tony s]

You could try some egg shells. Cleaned off the inner membrane of course. Then crunched to smaller pieces. In the back of a hob if you have one. Never done this, heard about it. Leary of tums. It’s got what you want, but what else does it have?

[Colu]

You could add some crushed coral to help raise your KH and GH you would want to add one pound of crushed coral per 10 gallons to the substrate or in a media bag in your filter @Guupy42

[Tony s]

Yes, the crushed coral is the preferred way. Eggshell is the cheap way. I prefer the coral. Coral is very consistent and safe 

[Guupy42]

@Tony s

On 4/2/2024 at 9:43 PM, Tony s said:

You could try some egg shells. Cleaned off the inner membrane of course. Then crunched to smaller pieces. In the back of a hob if you have one. Never done this, heard about it. Leary of tums. It’s got what you want, but what else does it have?

Found this on their website:

Medicinal ingredient (in each chewable tablet) 750 mg Calcium carbonate/tablet

Non-medicinal ingredients (alpha): adipic acid, artificial and natural flavours, corn starch, FD&C blue #1 Al. lake, FD&C red #40 Al. lake, FD&C yellow #5 Al. lake, FD&C yellow #6 Al. lake, mineral oil, sodium hexametaphosphate, sucrose, talc.

 

[Tony s]

On 4/3/2024 at 8:00 AM, Guupy42 said:

Non-medicinal ingredients (alpha): adipic acid, artificial and natural flavours, corn starch, FD&C blue #1 Al. lake, FD&C red #40 Al. lake, FD&C yellow #5 Al. lake, FD&C yellow #6 Al. lake, mineral oil, sodium hexametaphosphate, sucrose, talc

Yeah, that’s the part that can’t be trusted. 

[Guupy42]

The fin clamp has been getting worse. Is there some sort of emergency action I could take? I don't have any crushed coral on hand right now.

 

I might be able to get cuttlebone from my local pet store, will that work? It will make pH higher, so can I use pH down to let it work better?

Edited April 3 by Guupy42

[Tony s]

Cuttlebone will work. But has caused issues before. Remove the metal clips 

@Colu  would you have any idea on the clamping?

 

@Guupy42 going to want the latest parameters 

[Tony s]

Id also check in and see if your petsmart/co has any wondershell. that would work better than cuttlebone

[Guupy42]

Thank you for all the help you have given me. I got the cuttlebone, but unfortunately, it was too late to save the fish.😢

Should I still add the cuttlebone, or should I save it for another emergency like this one? If so, how should I use it? (Dosing instructions, specifications, etc.)

If I do a water change, I will no longer be able to give accurate results for the water test. 

Edited April 3 by Guupy42

[Tony s]

It just floats unless you weigh it down. Watch for any odor coming off it into the tank. Someone got ahold of some improperly prepared bone and it caused a crash. So watch it carefully. I think petco/smart is now carrying wondershell which may be better. You don’t really dose it. It stays in the tank and dissolves as needed. Same as wondershell or crushed coral. The thing is to raise your gh stability safely over time. So, not a one shot fix. You want your gh to stay around 200

[Guupy42]

On 4/3/2024 at 6:33 PM, Tony s said:

It just floats unless you weigh it down. Watch for any odor coming off it into the tank. Someone got ahold of some improperly prepared bone and it caused a crash. So watch it carefully. I think petco/smart is now carrying wondershell which may be better. You don’t really dose it. It stays in the tank and dissolves as needed. Same as wondershell or crushed coral. The thing is to raise your gh stability safely over time. So, not a one shot fix. You want your gh to stay around 200

Is that a "Yes, I should use it just in case" or a "No, but here is some future reference"? I noticed while doing a water change that one of my other guppies' tail was bareley smaller than it used to be. Nothing serious, but something to mention, because it is probably caused by soft water, too. Also, how do I use the cuttlebone without raising pH as well? Again, thank you for all the help you have given me. I greatly appreciate it.

Edited April 4 by Guupy42

[Tony s]

You have to find a way to stabilize your water at 200 gh. Fluctuations can actually cause stress, and then disease. So I’d pick a method and use it constantly. Crushed coral in a media bag is good, wondershell works good. Cuttlebone works as long as they prepared it correctly. The key is a nice flat 200 gh. 
 

it shouldn’t raise. Gh shouldn’t raise ph. Kh raises ph
 

[Guupy42]

Okay, thanks. I will add the cuttlebone in this afternoon and post how it goes. So I just put it in the HOB, and watch it?

Edit: I was researching if cuttlebone raises pH. Turns out, it only raises GH, which is what I want, and doesn't change the KH or pH much. Again, thank you for your help.

Edited April 4 by Guupy42

[Tony s]

Just be careful with it. Someone here got a badly prepared cuttlebone. Started stinking and lost fish from it. 
 

put it in the hob behind the cartridge. At that point you’re going to have to figure it out. How to keep it in. With my ro water, I use seachem products to target my ph gh kh.  Haven’t used the cuttlebone. But seems rather straightforward.

[Guupy42]

I added the cuttlebone into my HOB. I don't think it had any smell at all. I rinsed it out at first, and then put it in a cup of aquarium water. I made sure all of it had got a good dip in the water, and here we are now. I will post back later with updates.

Was this the forum post about the unprepared cuttlebone?

[Guupy42]

Day one of cuttlebone is done. The fish seemed to have (mostly) recovered from the stress of losing a tankmate, and there hasn't seemed to be too much issue in the water, but there has been algae growth. Is this caused by some water parameter, or is it about the light level in the aquarium? I have also noticed that my snail has been more active since the introduction of the cuttlebone, just a side note. Maybe it's working to supply the snail with calcium.

Edited April 6 by Guupy42

[Tony s]

On 4/5/2024 at 9:35 PM, Guupy42 said:

the light level in the aquarium

that's a possibility. If you can stick a timer on it. only run the light for less than 8 hours. you pick the time, the fish don't need the light. the light is for you to enjoy your fish. so pick a time when you're going to be around. I'd also keep the nitrates around 20 or less. algae uses nitrates as fertilizer

Edited April 6 by Tony s