Neglected tank… algae issues

[J. Holmes]

Sorry long post!!

I had to let my tank go during a kitchen remodel. I now have an algae issue. From my research, I know it’s under fertilized, so I’ll up the dosage. I was dosing incorrectly (I think). 40 gallons and only giving easy green 3 pumps and capful of potassium once a week.  It gets CO2 and lights are on 12 hours.  water temp is 78. My poor plants are STRUGGLING, so I’m hoping getting them back will help with my algae. I also have two hillstreams, 4 Nerites, and 10 Amano shrimp in there to do some work. But they seem a bit lazy in their cleaning. 
I traditionally did a 5 gallon water change weekly. Do I need to increase for a while? 

Biggest issues:

Blackbeard EVERYWHERE. My sponge filter is completely covered. Everywhere in the substrate.

Green dust: covers my walls within a day. All over my plants (I think). I’ve tried gently rubbing it off and it doesn’t work. How can I help them? 

[JoeQ]

Your biggest issue is plant mass, you need some fast growing easy plants to help soak up nutrients from the water colum. Clean what you can by hand, including filter(s) & dead organics. Continue with large weekly water changes 50% plus. And fertilize regularly,  a minimun fertilizeing dose is more likely to cause algae, than a "little bit extra" along with a large weekly water change.

[J. Holmes]

On 3/22/2024 at 12:39 PM, JoeQ said:

Your biggest issue is plant mass, you need some fast growing easy plants to help soak up nutrients from the water colum. Clean what you can by hand, including filter(s) & dead organics. Continue with large weekly water changes 50% plus. And fertilize regularly,  a minimun fertilizeing dose is more likely to cause algae, than a "little bit extra" along with a large weekly water change.

Thanks so much. What types would you suggest. I’ve tried to get crypts to grow… they melt and never come back. I’ve tried several different carpeting plants. My log shades them too much and I can’t get them to take. 

[Bsquared]

I agree with the plant mass comment. Increasing plant mass can definitely help. I also would drop your light duration to 8hrs and leave it there for at least 2 weeks to see how your plants respond. They should be totally fine and it should help slow algae growth while the plants grow in

[JoeQ]

On 3/22/2024 at 12:53 PM, J. Holmes said:

Thanks so much. What types would you suggest. I’ve tried to get crypts to grow… they melt and never come back. I’ve tried several different carpeting plants. My log shades them too much and I can’t get them to take. 

My absolute favorite is hornwort which is usually available at big box chain stores, you can float it or plant it (altho it wont grow roots). Its also a nutrient hog and great indicator plant for being under fed. Its usually the first plant to show signs of nutrient deficiency.

[Bsquared]

I like watersprite as another good floating plant that can really suck out nutrients. It can also be planted too if you want a different look

[Rube_Goldfish]

Floating plants can grow quite quickly, which soaks up nutrients but also gives the benefit of shading the tank a bit. Salvinia minima, frogbit, water lettuce, giant duckweed (but not regular duckweed!) should all work pretty easily. Just about any stem should work and quickly, especially as you're injecting CO2, though if nutrient reduction is your only goal, I'd also recommend pearlweed.

If you don't mind uprooting the existing plants, you could give them all the reverse respiration treatment. You could do that to hardscape and the filter, too, but that's a last resort thing because you'd be resetting your cycle. Otherwise, spot treatment of hydrogen peroxide kills BBA, though again, I'm not sure what to do about the BBA on your filter that won't harm the beneficial bacteria that live there.

[J. Holmes]

On 3/22/2024 at 9:31 PM, Rube_Goldfish said:

Floating plants can grow quite quickly, which soaks up nutrients but also gives the benefit of shading the tank a bit. Salvinia minima, frogbit, water lettuce, giant duckweed (but not regular duckweed!) should all work pretty easily. Just about any stem should work and quickly, especially as you're injecting CO2, though if nutrient reduction is your only goal, I'd also recommend pearlweed.

If you don't mind uprooting the existing plants, you could give them all the reverse respiration treatment. You could do that to hardscape and the filter, too, but that's a last resort thing because you'd be resetting your cycle. Otherwise, spot treatment of hydrogen peroxide kills BBA, though again, I'm not sure what to do about the BBA on your filter that won't harm the beneficial bacteria that live there.

Yes my filter and substrate are a concern for me. I do not want to restart my tank and risk killing my sensitive fish. I have apistos in there. I saw where simply shading the filter could solve issue?

 

Also, with shading plants… I’ve never understood how that works when you have high light plants. Wouldn’t the shade kill the plants that need the light? 

[Rube_Goldfish]

On 3/23/2024 at 5:29 AM, J. Holmes said:

Yes my filter and substrate are a concern for me. I do not want to restart my tank and risk killing my sensitive fish. I have apistos in there. I saw where simply shading the filter could solve issue?

 

Also, with shading plants… I’ve never understood how that works when you have high light plants. Wouldn’t the shade kill the plants that need the light? 

Yeah, it might. @JoeQ has a journal wherein he talks about solving algae can sometimes involve actually turning the light up, in fact. Because, as he states in the journal, the best long term way to get rid of algae is a high amount of plant biomass that will outcompete the algae. Which is why the recommendation of the fast growing plants.

You can make a sort of "corral" using airline tubing as a boom to hold floating plants only where you want them, so that they soak up nutrients and only shade what you want them to. But that won't work above a sponge filter because the floaters won't like the bubbles.

Hmm. Can you do spot treatments of hydrogen peroxide, then? Maybe kill off the BBA in small chunks rather than all at once?

But to your larger point, yeah, you don't want to kill off your plants in order to kill off the algae.

[JoeQ]

The algae killing journal was in the very beginning of my 10g journal.  I don't suggest the hydrogen peroxide route either that kills both good and bad bacteria.  As for reverse respiration, I'm also not a fan, IMO its basically a long unnecessary process involving trying to save unhealthy plant growth (thats why it is covered in algae). Your best course of action is trim unhealthy growth as new growth appears.

Algae is a symptom of poor water quality & poor plant growth. Treat the cause not the symptom!

[J. Holmes]

On 3/23/2024 at 10:16 AM, Rube_Goldfish said:

Yeah, it might. @JoeQ has a journal wherein he talks about solving algae can sometimes involve actually turning the light up, in fact. Because, as he states in the journal, the best long term way to get rid of algae is a high amount of plant biomass that will outcompete the algae. Which is why the recommendation of the fast growing plants.

You can make a sort of "corral" using airline tubing as a boom to hold floating plants only where you want them, so that they soak up nutrients and only shade what you want them to. But that won't work above a sponge filter because the floaters won't like the bubbles.

Hmm. Can you do spot treatments of hydrogen peroxide, then? Maybe kill off the BBA in small chunks rather than all at once?

But to your larger point, yeah, you don't want to kill off your plants in order to kill off the algae.

I’ve been battling BBA for probably a year now. I’ve spot treated with Excel… I ALMOST had it tackled, but my few weeks I had to ignore the tank let it completely take over. It’s all in my substrate and covered my filter. I’m not sure how to get it out of the substrate. Would it be ok if I change out my filter and do an excel immersion? Would it completely kill off all the good in my filter and mess up tank? 
 

also… any suggestions for carpeting plant? I’ve tried Monte Carlo and a crypt type. Both refused to grow for me. 

On 3/24/2024 at 7:55 AM, JoeQ said:

The algae killing journal was in the very beginning of my 10g journal.  I don't suggest the hydrogen peroxide route either that kills both good and bad bacteria.  As for reverse respiration, I'm also not a fan, IMO its basically a long unnecessary process involving trying to save unhealthy plant growth (thats why it is covered in algae). Your best course of action is trim unhealthy growth as new growth appears.

Algae is a symptom of poor water quality & poor plant growth. Treat the cause not the symptom!

I read your journal… it was helpful. My only concern is the water change amounts. I have sensitive fish in my tank and I fear changing my water that much would mess with them. I’ve been doing weekly 5 gallon changes and they do well with them. Should I increase to 7/10 gallons weekly till this is resolved/ my plants recover?

[Rube_Goldfish]

On 3/24/2024 at 10:55 AM, J. Holmes said:

I’ve been battling BBA for probably a year now. I’ve spot treated with Excel… I ALMOST had it tackled, but my few weeks I had to ignore the tank let it completely take over. It’s all in my substrate and covered my filter. I’m not sure how to get it out of the substrate. Would it be ok if I change out my filter and do an excel immersion? Would it completely kill off all the good in my filter and mess up tank? 
 

also… any suggestions for carpeting plant? I’ve tried Monte Carlo and a crypt type. Both refused to grow for me. 

I read your journal… it was helpful. My only concern is the water change amounts. I have sensitive fish in my tank and I fear changing my water that much would mess with them. I’ve been doing weekly 5 gallon changes and they do well with them. Should I increase to 7/10 gallons weekly till this is resolved/ my plants recover?

I wish I knew what to tell you. To be honest, I've been lucky enough to have no first hand experience with BBA, but I wanted to suggest floating plants because they use up nutrients quickly.

@nabokovfan87: you've tackled blackbeard algae before, right?

I think if you treated your filter in that way, you'd kill off the beneficial bacteria in it. Since your tank is long running, that might be okay, since there's a lot of bacteria on the substrate, plants, hardscape, glass, and so on, but you might essentially be doing a new fish-in cycle. Plus you'd still have the BBA in the substrate. If you're comfortable going through a fish-in cycle though, it ought to work.

I have had no luck with any carpeting plants, though I'd think with CO2 it should be a lot easier. If not Monte Carlo, maybe dwarf hairgrass, or micro sword? I'm still nursing along some Littorella uniflora, which seems to be neither growing nor dying. Cryptocoryne parva should work but would take ages. Dwarf sagittaria is pretty easy growing but might get too tall.

If you aren't comfortable doing bigger water changes, could you so small changes more frequently? Maybe stick with the 5 gallon change but do it once or twice a week?

I'm sorry I can't be more helpful.

[JoeQ]

On 3/24/2024 at 10:55 AM, J. Holmes said:

I’ve been battling BBA for probably a year now. I’ve spot treated with Excel… I ALMOST had it tackled, but my few weeks I had to ignore the tank let it completely take over. It’s all in my substrate and covered my filter. I’m not sure how to get it out of the substrate. Would it be ok if I change out my filter and do an excel immersion? Would it completely kill off all the good in my filter and mess up tank? 
 

also… any suggestions for carpeting plant? I’ve tried Monte Carlo and a crypt type. Both refused to grow for me. 

I read your journal… it was helpful. My only concern is the water change amounts. I have sensitive fish in my tank and I fear changing my water that much would mess with them. I’ve been doing weekly 5 gallon changes and they do well with them. Should I increase to 7/10 gallons weekly till this is resolved/ my plants recover?

If you have been battling bba for awhile id first look to lighting, an over abundance of blue light is a huge driving factor.

As for water changes, 10g would be better than 5g, 15g would be better than 10g.

If your sponge is covered with bba id also consider cycling a new sponge along with running the bba sponge. After a period id then remove the bba sponge and giving it a total overhaul,  killing the bba (and im assuming your beneficial bacteria colony)

As for carpeting plants, the ones mentioned are rather advanced.  It is my suggestion you concentrate on building the frame, walls, & windows, before installing the carpet! This is obviously a building a house analogy but it also applies to scaping a tank!

[J. Holmes]

Thank you all for Your help. I believe this will be my plan. Let me know if You all agree. One question: do I gravel vac each water change? I don’t want to take out all the nutrients for my stem plants as they try and grow. 
 

1. water changes: 2 10 gallon changes per week.

2. Increase fert. Fertilize every 2 days with coop easy green. 
 

3. spot treat BBA. Trim up dead plants now and as they grow in. Get some fast growers to add to take as it fills in. 

[JoeQ]

Looks good, I wouldn't deep vacuum but I would do a light vacuum removing dead organics and uneaten food. Down the road you might also have to adjust your lightning but lets see how these changes help improve your situation. 

Edit: Also you don't have to at every water change but I'd be aware of surface debris and act accordingly. 

Edit added

Edited March 25 by JoeQ
Added edit info

[JoeQ]

Id also turn down your temperature if you can. Colder water grows less algae.

[J. Holmes]

On 3/25/2024 at 10:09 AM, JoeQ said:

Id also turn down your temperature if you can. Colder water grows less algae.

I would but it’s set for my Apistogramas. I’ve lowered it before to as low as recommended to keep them healthy. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 3/24/2024 at 8:36 AM, Rube_Goldfish said:

@nabokovfan87: you've tackled blackbeard algae before, right?

I think if you treated your filter in that way, you'd kill off the beneficial bacteria in it. Since your tank is long running, that might be okay, since there's a lot of bacteria on the substrate, plants, hardscape, glass, and so on, but you might essentially be doing a new fish-in cycle. Plus you'd still have the BBA in the substrate. If you're comfortable going through a fish-in cycle though, it ought to work.

Yes and no... I have years of experience, but I am still trying to fully tackle/stop this monster. My suggestions on what to do is to "fix everything" which is a short way of saying to go through a checklist and fix a variety of potential issues.

One of the big ones I had an issue with the light spread (light too close, not covering the tank fully).  Light strength, first too high, then too low, now we're back up to higher %.  Light duration slightly too long. Not enough circulation of CO2 when dosing CO2. Poor circulation in general due to filtration setup. Dead spots = home for BBA, regardless of light. If the flow is too high in one spot, it loves that too because water pushes the spores on that spot consistently.

A tip Bentley Pascoe gave me on a stream was to set the light for normal % and limit the window to 4 hours max. Run that for a few weeks. It helped SO MUCH to contain the algae and let the plants sustain.

Light is the key here, but there's a lot going on.

Clean the filter, clean the tank more, get rid of waste and debris in the substrate. Make sure pumps and filters are adequate and up to the task. More is more..... More filtration is often used on high tech aquascapes for a reason.

Hopefully that helps.

[J. Holmes]

Thank you for your continued help! Update on tank. 
 

1. 7 gallon changes every other day with cleaning the sides.

2. Dead plant clean up with each water change.

3. New plant order came in yesterday. Hopefully the new plants will help! 
 

I have not played with light yet. Might try that in a few weeks. I have not seen a reduction in green dust, but I’m sure my plants have not recovered enough yet to help. 

[JoeQ]

You are welcome!  The keeping healthy water is a huge part of algae control that many don't realize. IMO horticultural practices and plant mass is next.  As for your GSA hopefully the plants ordered will help!!

Also, here is pretty good link for controlling most algaes (which I should of sent sooner).

https://nilocg.com/blogs/news/algae-common-causes-and-solutions-for-different-types

Thanks for the update, hopefully you will see continued improvement!

[Jeff]

I also had a ton of BBA before. 

Increaing my light, and adding floating plants did the trick for my tank.