Centerpiece Suggestions - also RIP Fred

[Cinnebuns]

Awhile back i made a post where I made a back story for my thick-lipped gourami pair. Sally died awhile ago.  Fred died today. I already miss him. I have had 16 individual gourami and 5 different thick-lipped gourami and he is by far my favorite I've had. He was so interactive. I'm not sure exactly how he died but I have a few things I suspect. It was very sudden and unexpected. 

Now I'm considering what, if anything, to replace him with. The tank is already very full I will admit but I do like the idea of a centerpiece fish. I love gourami and thick-lipped is my favorite of all gourami but I'm also considering trying something new. I'd like some suggestions. 

29-gallon:  panda cories, 10 green neon tetras, 8 pseudomugil luminatus, 2 honey gourami (considering moving or rehoming if needed).  Water is 7.6 PH, 14 GH

Things I have had in the past so wouldn't be new:  female betta, male betta, honey gourami, thick-lipped gourami, dwarf gourami, sparkling gourami

Would a ram maybe work?  Would apistos be too aggressive?  I've never had any cichlid ever period. 

[Tony s]

I'm thinking too hard of water for either a ram or an apisto. Trust me, I want both. But our water is similar and don't think we can do it. almost everything else we can. but those 2 species seem to be very sensitive. I have had luck with angelfish in this water. tank raised in local water would be best. possibly too big for the greens. how about a couple of pearl gouramis. or a couple of super red kibensis

[Cinnebuns]

On 2/19/2024 at 8:49 PM, Tony s said:

I'm thinking too hard of water for either a ram or an apisto. Trust me, I want both. But our water is similar and don't think we can do it. almost everything else we can. but those 2 species seem to be very sensitive. I have had luck with angelfish in this water. tank raised in local water would be best. possibly too big for the greens. how about a couple of pearl gouramis. or a couple of super red kibensis

That's a good point about water hardness. I forgot that's why I had never gotten one in the past. I've had pearl gouramis in the past, I forgot to add that to the list, but I ended up rehoming them because I didn't feel the tank was large enough for them. I hadn't thought of kribs. Maybe I'll look into that more. 

[Tony s]

haven't done kribs yet either, but they look cool. and from west africa, so hard water. was just searching for a showpiece that didn't eat greens

[Cinnebuns]

I'll be honest I don't know a lot about kribs so im reading some articles now. One concern about fish that enjoy caves is how often I will see them. Do they hide a lot?

Oh I responded the same time as you. Maybe someone else can answer that. 

Edited February 20 by Cinnebuns

[AllFishNoBrakes]

If you go the Krib route, I would suggest a single one. If you end up with a pair they breed like rabbits, and they’re cichlids so they get super defensive of their eggs and fry. Some of the best parents of the fish world which is awesome to see, but I learned a hard lesson about breeding fish with my Kribs when I couldn’t get rid of them. 

[Gannon]

On 2/19/2024 at 8:49 PM, Tony s said:

I'm thinking too hard of water for either a ram or an apisto. Trust me, I want both. But our water is similar and don't think we can do it. almost everything else we can. but those 2 species seem to be very sensitive. I have had luck with angelfish in this water. tank raised in local water would be best. possibly too big for the greens. how about a couple of pearl gouramis. or a couple of super red kibensis

I second pearl gouramis as they as they get along with everyone including the honey gouramis. I don't have experience with that combo.

[Lennie]

Def not a pair of anything. Two days ago my friend gave me his panda cories because of problems he face keeping them with 1m:2f apistogramma cacatuoides in his tank with dimensions of 120x40cm. One of the panda cories lost his eye. He is okay right now but  Iwould hate it if you face something similar so I wanted to share.

You can keep one (and in under different conditions, even breed ) apistogramma cacatuoides, trifasciata, hongsloi, inka, agassizii or panduro in a normal tap water. Not my words, I know an apisto only breeder who does this as a full time job and has SO MANY apistogrammas, and very rare ones included. I know noone as experienced as he is when it comes to apistos. I bet, wild form cacatuoides would be the calm option but not sure. 

I think one bolivian ram also should be fine. @Chick-In-Of-TheSea may help further. @beastie also keeps them in a group, but I believe they don't really need one.

German blue rams like it way too hot for some other fish you keep so I wouldnt keep them. 

Kribs also have rarer species that, I think, look prettier. My fav are Pelvicachromis taeniatus, but they have different look based on where they live. I got me Moliwe pair, but lost the female couple weeks ago sadly. Females look amazing imo, males still looking very cool. You can find another that looks cool to you but idk if they need another gender to show off their colors.

 

Edited February 20 by Lennie

[Tony s]

Yeah, you might be able to do the cacatuoides or panduro. Your ph is slightly lower than mine . Worried about the longevity. But those two are among the hardiest in hard water . They tend to fade away in our water. Possibly the Bolivian also. Forgot about them. 

Edited February 20 by Tony s

[jwcarlson]

I've had male Apistogramma hongsloi in my liquid rock tap water (pH 8.3, kH and gH both in the 18+ degree range) over a year and they seem absolutely fine health/vigor wise.  Had a pair in it for awhile and they spawned.  The apistos are in with various tetras, corys, bristlenose and are good tank mates (a pair wouldn't necessarily be though).  

I've got discus going on two years in this water and while it's more challenging to keep them healthy, it isn't impossible. 

I have three rams in this water currently and they seem to be having the time of their lives.  Very interactive and doing their ram stuff, but I've only had them a couple months.  The rams have a bunch of juvy sterbai corys and a couple bristlenose with them.  They do harass the corys, but it's nothing violent.   

All that said, it's very rare for me to let nitrates get above 10-15.  It's part of why I have issues growing plants, I think, because in a lot of aquariums they are <5 ppm.  But the plants are more accessories than anything else.  If you've got water that doesn't work well for the fish AND you've got them in high nitrates and other stressors, I think that's where the issues show up.  

My two cents.

[Tony s]

On 2/20/2024 at 12:36 PM, jwcarlson said:

My two cents

You're 2 cents are worth much more than 2 cents. I have always been impressed with your keeping and breeding discus in our water. Hadn't realized hongsloi was that hardy. I do know a lot of the others aren't. My wife wants a discus tank, but I'm totally intimidated by them. going to try rams again shortly. failed the first time

[jwcarlson]

On 2/20/2024 at 12:08 PM, Tony s said:

You're 2 cents are worth much more than 2 cents. I have always been impressed with your keeping and breeding discus in our water. Hadn't realized hongsloi was that hardy. I do know a lot of the others aren't. My wife wants a discus tank, but I'm totally intimidated by them. going to try rams again shortly. failed the first time

I don't breed the discus in this water (or at all), but they will spawn in it.  Anything that I'm trying to spawn rams or apistos are in heavily RO water with some of my regular tap water cut in.  Sterbai, CPDs, and just recently, furcatta rainbows seem to spawn in my tap water just fine.

Edited February 20 by jwcarlson

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 2/20/2024 at 11:55 AM, Lennie said:

think one bolivian ram also should be fine. @Chick-In-Of-TheSea may help further

One Bolivian ram makes for a nice peaceful community fish. Some folks that got 2 Bolivian rams reported they fight; one will chase the other relentlessly until it gets stressed and starts to starve.  Not sure what the magic number of Bolivian rams is. Ask @Guppysnail or @knee
 

@xXInkedPhoenixX is the only one I’ve seen so far to keep 2 together for any decent length of time, but I believe she ultimately separated them because she “wasn’t sure” if one was picking on the other while she wasn’t looking(?)

Bolivian rams are less colorful than other fish, but they win for personality. They will interact with you similar to how a betta would.

Edited February 20 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[Tony s]

On 2/20/2024 at 1:12 PM, jwcarlson said:

I don't breed the discus in this water (or at all), but they will spawn in it.  Anything that I'm trying to spawn rams or apistos are in heavily RO water with some of my regular tap water cut in.  Sterbai, CPDs, and just recently, furcatta rainbows seem to spawn in my tap water just fine.

Okay. so no viable fry then. Still you've got them healthy and thriving. Much more than i can do. so, the apistos are in RO. That's one of the reasons i hesitated on the stocking suggestion

[jwcarlson]

On 2/20/2024 at 12:31 PM, Tony s said:

Okay. so no viable fry then. Still you've got them healthy and thriving. Much more than i can do. so, the apistos are in RO. That's one of the reasons i hesitated on the stocking suggestion

My breeding apistos are in an RO mix.  But there's a few that are extra males that are just in my tap water.  Same with the rams.  The breeding pairs are in RO mix.  The extras are just in tap water.  Hopefully that makes sense.  If I'm trying to breed it, it's in water that should facilitate that.  But if it's just a fish I'm keeping in some sort of a community setup, then I do not have them in special water.

[beastie]

To a 29 gallon i would not recommend more than one bolivian ram in any case, even if my work splendidly for me (but i have a 360 liters)

And one is fun too anyway, and they are very very mellow and work well with corydoras

[NOLANANO]

On 2/19/2024 at 8:32 PM, Cinnebuns said:

Awhile back i made a post where I made a back story for my thick-lipped gourami pair. Sally died awhile ago.  Fred died today. I already miss him. I have had 16 individual gourami and 5 different thick-lipped gourami and he is by far my favorite I've had. He was so interactive. I'm not sure exactly how he died but I have a few things I suspect. It was very sudden and unexpected. 

Now I'm considering what, if anything, to replace him with. The tank is already very full I will admit but I do like the idea of a centerpiece fish. I love gourami and thick-lipped is my favorite of all gourami but I'm also considering trying something new. I'd like some suggestions. 

29-gallon:  panda cories, 10 green neon tetras, 8 pseudomugil luminatus, 2 honey gourami (considering moving or rehoming if needed).  Water is 7.6 PH, 14 GH

Things I have had in the past so wouldn't be new:  female betta, male betta, honey gourami, thick-lipped gourami, dwarf gourami, sparkling gourami

Would a ram maybe work?  Would apistos be too aggressive?  I've never had any cichlid ever period. 

I remember Fred and Sally. Good times. Fred probably passed because he just couldn't live anymore without his darling Sally.

[Cinnebuns]

On 2/20/2024 at 12:26 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Bolivian rams are less colorful than other fish, but they win for personality. They will interact with you similar to how a betta would.

This may have won me over!  What I am going to miss the most about Fred is his personality. He was so interactive!!  

[Guppysnail]

On 2/20/2024 at 1:26 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Not sure what the magic number of Bolivian rams is. Ask @Guppysnail or @knee

I have 6 growing in a 20 long with cherry barbs. They are almost adults now and still get along well.  I won’t have answers until they hit puberty and breeding begins. I may end up with WWIII 🤣

[Tony s]

Could they do 3 males. Would that stop the aggression and/or territorial behavior 

Or even 3 females for that matter 

[Cinnebuns]

On 2/20/2024 at 2:53 PM, Tony s said:

Could they do 3 males. Would that stop the aggression and/or territorial behavior 

Or even 3 females for that matter 

3 males is the worst number you can have in terms of aggression because 2 of them end up ganging up on 1.  5 is really the minimum number for dealing with aggression in guppies. 3 females would mean fry since they hold sperm. 

I'm not saying it would never work as anything is possible but when talking about the most likely scenario. 

Edited February 20 by Cinnebuns

[Tony s]

Was just thinking that 1 might get lost. I have training in horticulture and we usually think in odd numbers. 

Edited February 21 by Tony s

[Tony s]

But I’m thinking then that a pair is just instant aggression towards each other 

[knee]

On 2/20/2024 at 10:26 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Not sure what the magic number of Bolivian rams is. Ask @Guppysnail or @knee

I currently have 5 pairs in a 40 breeder 😂

They do chase but not to the point of hurting other fish. I’d keep a pair or two in a 29g easily as long as there’s enough space for them to claim territories. All their tankmates are nano fish with the exception of the pearly gouramis, which usually stay on top so they barely interact. 
 

I found that once they establish a pecking order, they don’t harass the others as much. It also helps that I have 10 of them so the mild aggression is still spread out. If you just want to keep one I suggest getting a male because they look amazing once full grown. 
 

Some photos of my males and with other females. 

[Cinnebuns]

On 2/20/2024 at 6:07 PM, Tony s said:

Was just thinking that 1 might get lost. I have training in horticulture and we usually think in odd numbers. 

Oh, I'll be honest, I got confused with a different post. You are right. I'm dumb.