Skinny Pencilfish

[macdaddy36]

I have a group of Beckford's pencilfish. Some of them were bought from Dan's fish and the others from Aquatic arts several months ago. I was away for four days and when I got back I noticed some of the smaller ones were looking really skinny with sunken-in bellies and seemed to have a humpback. When I get home I will take a picture.

pH 8.0

nitrate 5-10

nitrite & ammonia 0

chlorine 0

It only seems to be effecting a couple of the smallest fish, while the rest seem perfectly fine. Should I treat with praziquantel, metronidazole, something else? If so, how? 

 

Thanks.

[Whitecloud09]

On 2/12/2024 at 2:52 PM, macdaddy36 said:

I have a group of Beckford's pencilfish. Some of them were bought from Dan's fish and the others from Aquatic arts several months ago. I was away for four days and when I got back I noticed some of the smaller ones were looking really skinny with sunken-in bellies and seemed to have a humpback. When I get home I will take a picture.

pH 8.0

nitrate 5-10

nitrite & ammonia 0

chlorine 0

It only seems to be effecting a couple of the smallest fish, while the rest seem perfectly fine. Should I treat with praziquantel, metronidazole, something else? If so, how? 

 

Thanks.

If they have sunken belly’s that is under feeding.  I am almost positive. Do not treat with medications this early if not underfeeding. What I would do would be feed more and good protein to fatten them up. This may not be but sunken belly’s but I am 99% sure  it is. Could u get a pic now? 

@macdaddy36

wait, humpbacks? I didn’t see that part! Uhhhh…idk now….first a pic will do whenever you can get one.

[Colu]

Sunken belly and hump back can be a sign of wasting disease for that you would want to treat with levamisole active ingredient in expel p have you notice any rapid breathing hanging out near the surface lethargy spitting food flashing what are you feeding and how often @macdaddy36

[macdaddy36]

On 2/12/2024 at 5:41 PM, Bigdog99 said:

If they have sunken belly’s that is under feeding.  I am almost positive. Do not treat with medications this early if not underfeeding. What I would do would be feed more and good protein to fatten them up. This may not be but sunken belly’s but I am 99% sure  it is. Could u get a pic now? 

@macdaddy36

wait, humpbacks? I didn’t see that part! Uhhhh…idk now….first a pic will do whenever you can get one.

I don't think its underfeeding because every other fish except for the 2 fish has full, rounded bellies, and they seem to be eating well.

[macdaddy36]

On 2/12/2024 at 6:30 PM, Colu said:

Sunken belly and hump back can be a sign of wasting disease for that you would want to treat with levamisole active ingredient in expel p have you notice any rapid breathing hanging out near the surface lethargy spitting food flashing what are you feeding and how often @macdaddy36

Yes, when I woke up this morning one of the skinny ones was hanging near the bottom. Thought it was dead for a second but it's swimming around just fine now.

I'm feeding Fluval Bug Bites 5 times a week with frozen bloodworms, repashy, wafers, etc. occasionally.

Sorry for the bad picture, having trouble getting my phone to focus so close. 

Picture next to 'healthy' one from the same group which was purchased from aquatic arts. It is still a juvenile but has not been growing as quickly as the others in the tank. It is ~0.9 inches vs. the average for ones from the same group now is 1.25+ inch. There is another slightly skinny one but not nearly as bad as this one.

[Henry the fish keeper]

Yeah most likely it could be internal parasites

Edited February 13 by Henry the fish keeper

[macdaddy36]

@ColuWould fritz paracleanse be effective since it also treats tapeworms?

Will both these medications be same with plants?

Edited February 13 by macdaddy36

[Whitecloud09]

On 2/12/2024 at 7:52 PM, macdaddy36 said:

I don't think its underfeeding because every other fish except for the 2 fish has full, rounded bellies, and they seem to be eating well.

Yeah Ididnt think so because of you saying that they had humped backs. 

On 2/12/2024 at 8:12 PM, Henry the fish keeper said:

Yeah most likely it could be internal parasites

Yeah you are prob right

[Colu]

On 2/13/2024 at 1:14 AM, macdaddy36 said:

@ColuWould fritz paracleanse be effective since it also treats tapeworms?

Will both these medications be same with plants?

You can do use paracleanse one of the active active ingredient praziquantel that treats tape worms flat worms and flukes were as expel p active ingredient levamisole treats nematode worms hook worms nodular worms roundworms looking at the picture I would start treating with expel p what you could do is @Odd Ducktreatment protocol for parasitic infections using paracleanse instead of prazipro @macdaddy36

[macdaddy36]

On 2/12/2024 at 9:18 PM, Colu said:

You can do use paracleanse one of the active active ingredient praziquantel that treats tape worms flat worms and flukes were as expel p active ingredient levamisole treats nematode worms hook worms nodular worms roundworms looking at the picture I would start treating with expel p what you could do is @Odd Ducktreatment protocol for parasitic infections using paracleanse instead of prazipro @macdaddy36

Ok, I ordered expel-p co-op yesterday so I will wait for that to arrive before I start treatment using expel-p and paracleanse (instead of praziquantal) There is one nerite snail in the tank so I will catch it and move it to another tank but the pest snails may have to die.

[Colu]

On 2/13/2024 at 11:59 AM, macdaddy36 said:

Ok, I ordered expel-p co-op yesterday so I will wait for that to arrive before I start treatment using expel-p and paracleanse (instead of praziquantal) There is one nerite snail in the tank so I will catch it and move it to another tank but the pest snails may have to die.

Levamisole can be harmful to some types of snails so it's best to remove them

[macdaddy36]

Expel-P arrived today, @Colu I think I understand how to do the treatment but I made this chart just to make sure I'm clear. I would appreciate if you would read through it just to make sure I've got it right, thanks.

I have a couple questions.

How concerned should I be about the effect of all this on the beneficial bacteria?

Is it a concern that I am doing this in pH 8.2, higher than recommended?

Edited February 16 by macdaddy36

[Whitecloud09]

On 2/16/2024 at 11:33 AM, macdaddy36 said:

Expel-P arrived today, @Colu I think I understand how to do the treatment but I made this chart just to make sure I'm clear. I would appreciate if you would read through it just to make sure I've got it right, thanks.

I have a couple questions.

How concerned should I be about the effect of all this on the beneficial bacteria?

Is it a concern that I am doing this in pH 8.2, higher than recommended?

About the bacteria part, I highly think u will not kill the bacteria with medication. The bacteria is hard to kill. @macdaddy36. Hopefully @Colu will chime in and answer your other Qs because the medications is not my thing basically lol, I only use when needed and only for a betta Ihave. No problems with my other fish.

 

[Colu]

On 2/16/2024 at 4:33 PM, macdaddy36 said:

Expel-P arrived today, @Colu I think I understand how to do the treatment but I made this chart just to make sure I'm clear. I would appreciate if you would read through it just to make sure I've got it right, thanks.

I have a couple questions.

How concerned should I be about the effect of all this on the beneficial bacteria?

Is it a concern that I am doing this in pH 8.2, higher than recommended?

Your charts fine the only thing I would do is add active carbon after your 50% water change to remove any remaining medication before treating with paracleanse I haven't had any issues with my beneficial bacteria when using anti-parasitic medication such levamisole praziquantel one active ingredient in paracleanse metronidazole does effect gram negative bacteria I haven't have any issues when using it I would just test more often while treating I wouldn't be concerned 

Edited February 17 by Colu

[Odd Duck]

Nice chart!  @Colu is correct about the Paracleanse having Metronidazole which is both antiparasitic for certain types or parasites, plus it’s an antibiotic against certain types of bacteria.  It could affect the biofiltration and the Levamisole can affect biofiltration, too.  They are not highly likely to affect biofiltration but if you have “pest” snails still present and have a snail die-off, you could be in dire need of all the biofiltration you can get.  Remember that biofiltration is so much more than the traditionally identified species of bacteria.  There’s far more to it than that and not all the bacteria species involved have been studied regarding their response to antibiotics / medications.  So keep close track of your parameters, make sure to do the water changes as planned, and be ready to do more large water changes just in case.  Always remove any dead snails immediately if any are seen.

[macdaddy36]

I just dosed the tank with paracleanse, and when I put the crystals/grains in the fish try to eat them. Is this an issue?

[Odd Duck]

On 2/17/2024 at 12:09 PM, macdaddy36 said:

I just dosed the tank with paracleanse, and when I put the crystals/grains in the fish try to eat them. Is this an issue?

It could cause an overdose and neurological symptoms plus damage gut flora at a too high dose.  Next time, I would scoop out a cup of tank water, dissolve the meds, then pour back in the tank.