Its Got To Be The 13+ Year Old Gravel

[Cincala]

Hi everyone!  I could really use all help!! 
 
My pebble rock gravel has been in this tank for 13+ years. 
Always was great! I vacuum weekly, change water, check parameters, and really never had a problem with my plants.  It’s a 36 gallon bow front aquarium.

This past year I have been having a very bad issue with algae and some kind of black gunk that wipes off with your finger on the top stems of plants, and now all over my the gravel!  
I started using Seachem Pristine, seems to help with the plants but now the gravel is covered in black gunk.

I have cut my beautiful plants so low to try to get rid of it. My plants are not growing. I don’t know what else to do. I have tried different lighting, Hygger, Fluval, Nicrew and Beamswork led lighting, right now I am using the Nicrew.

 I am going to try removing some or all gravel with a Shop Vac little by little, and replace with eco complete and black sand. Has anyone ever used this method? I have seen it online using a shop vac and big hose.

Does anyone have any idea/advice on what this stuff is and how to get rid of it?

 I am sooo disgusted and tired! Need all the help I can get!!
 

Appreciate all/any response from all! 
 

[MattyM]

Hi there - so sorry to hear about this! Do you have a picture or two to show? That often helps. 

[DaveO]

It sounds like you have a bad case of cyanobateria. It is treatable with Maracyn if caught early. I don't know what to do after a year. It may take a total teardown of your tank.

[ColBud]

If the gravel has been working for 13 years I would not suspect it as the source of the problem. I would look to other recent changes. 
if you just really want to change out the gravel to try a new substrate then go for that. 

[Cincala]

On 1/24/2024 at 8:30 AM, ColBud said:

If the gravel has been working for 13 years I would not suspect it as the source of the problem. I would look to other recent changes. 
if you just really want to change out the gravel to try a new substrate then go for that. 

I may have to remove the gravel. I think most of my problem is with my assassin snails (way too many to count), and easy green and easy carbon seems to make it worse. 
Seachem Pristine removes some of it off the plants, but also turns the gravel black, and now noticed I have Blackbeard algae.
I am removing gravel by cups right now, a little each day (making a be mess in the tank). Trying to get it as low as I can so I can vacuum deeper! 
I will be doing a 10-15% water change daily to vacuum. 

I’m going to try to bring the gravel low, and then cap it with eco complete and black sand. I want to keep some bacteria in the substrate. I hope that will help!

 I have removed all my mopani driftwood, trashed more plants, and cleaned off the rest, again.

Thanks for your help! I really appreciate it!  I’ll let you know what happens!
 

[Cincala]

On 1/23/2024 at 6:01 PM, MattyM said:

Hi there - so sorry to hear about this! Do you have a picture or two to show? That often helps. 

I got some pictures of the mess in the tank!  I also have Blackbeard algae! 
The fish are fine! I checked parameters today using aquarium co op test strips. 
Here are the readings: nitrate- 0-10, nitrite - 0, GH- 250-300, KH- 40, PH- 64-68.  
But, my phosphate reading is .50 and my TDS is 528. This is definitely in the gravel. I have too many assassin snails and I’m losing all my plants, I have to figure this out!

Thanks for your help!  Appreciate all the advice you can give!
 

[Cincala]

On 1/24/2024 at 5:25 AM, DaveO said:

It sounds like you have a bad case of cyanobateria. It is treatable with Maracyn if caught early. I don't know what to do after a year. It may take a total teardown of your tank.

I thought Maracyn was for fungus and diseases of fish? My fish are fine. 
I have Maracyn but, I don’t know if I should try it. 
I think I’m going to try and remove as much gravel as I can and cap it with eco complete and black sand.  
Thanks for your reply and advice! I appreciate it!

[MattyM]

Thanks for the pics! Kinda hard to tell - but are you sure that's Blackbeard and not Staghorn algae? Might be worth some googling. Staghorn is rather easy to kill by directly applying something like Easy Carbon. Cut the flow in your tank, put some in a pipette or syringe, and spray it right on the plant. Then figure out the source of the problem, which for me is usually too many nutrients and/or light. Some fast growing plants might help or something like floaters or pothos. Are those cherry barbs? Gorgeous fish! 

[DaveO]

On 1/24/2024 at 4:51 PM, Cincala said:

I thought Maracyn was for fungus and diseases of fish? My fish are fine. 
I have Maracyn but, I don’t know if I should try it. 
I think I’m going to try and remove as much gravel as I can and cap it with eco complete and black sand.  
Thanks for your reply and advice! I appreciate it!

Erythromycin is a broad spectrum antibiotic and is the active ingredient in Maracyn. It is used to treat bacterial infections in fish but is also an effective treatment  for cyanobacteria. I'm pretty sure I see cyanobacteria in the front corner on the gravel in the photo you provided. 

I have used this treatment in one of my tanks before and it worked well with no problem for the fish. You can look it up on the internet to help guide you through the process. In short, just follow the directions for treating fish on the package, and gravel vac well when the treatment is complete. Sometimes a second treatment is necessary. Give it a try. It can only help.

[Cincala]

On 1/24/2024 at 5:58 PM, MattyM said:

Thanks for the pics! Kinda hard to tell - but are you sure that's Blackbeard and not Staghorn algae? Might be worth some googling. Staghorn is rather easy to kill by directly applying something like Easy Carbon. Cut the flow in your tank, put some in a pipette or syringe, and spray it right on the plant. Then figure out the source of the problem, which for me is usually too many nutrients and/or light. Some fast growing plants might help or something like floaters or pothos. Are those cherry barbs? Gorgeous fish! 

You might be right! I googled Staghorn algae, and it looks like it (don’t know much about algae, never had that much algae problems before ). I don’t know about using aquarium co op easy carbon. I started using easy carbon and easy green again for about a month now, and everything got worse. Maybe I’m not using it right.  I am a Seachem lover, have always used them and never had issues! Funny the issues started around the same time I started using easy green and carbon!
I will syringe on top of one plant with easy carbon, and one with excel, and see what happens. I  don’t think it’s the lighting, but I do agree with  too many nutrients. 
Floaters would be nice, but I have fast moving water for my Otos. I have to look into pothos!
Yes, they are Cherry Barbs! I love them. Beautiful fish!
I’ll let you know how the plant treatment goes!
 

[Cincala]

On 1/24/2024 at 6:33 PM, DaveO said:

Erythromycin is a broad spectrum antibiotic and is the active ingredient in Maracyn. It is used to treat bacterial infections in fish but is also an effective treatment  for cyanobacteria. I'm pretty sure I see cyanobacteria in the front corner on the gravel in the photo you provided. 

I have used this treatment in one of my tanks before and it worked well with no problem for the fish. You can look it up on the internet to help guide you through the process. In short, just follow the directions for treating fish on the package, and gravel vac well when the treatment is complete. Sometimes a second treatment is necessary. Give it a try. It can only help.

Thanks! I didn’t know that, I will give it a try! 
Thanks for your advice! I’ll let you know what happens!

[MattyM]

On 1/24/2024 at 6:15 PM, Cincala said:

Maybe I’m not using it right.  I am a Seachem lover, have always used them and never had issues!

Sounds like you had a balanced, established tank and the switch to the Easy product line threw things out of whack - maybe going back to only using Seachem would fix everything. 

I would also be very, very sure you have cyanobacteria before dosing any meds. It has a smell to it, more here: https://www.aquariumcoop.com/blogs/aquarium/aquarium-algae

[Cincala]

On 1/25/2024 at 10:57 AM, MattyM said:

Sounds like you had a balanced, established tank and the switch to the Easy product line threw things out of whack - maybe going back to only using Seachem would fix everything. 

I would also be very, very sure you have cyanobacteria before dosing any meds. It has a smell to it, more here: https://www.aquariumcoop.com/blogs/aquarium/aquarium-algae

I didn’t use the Maracyn, still debating, but I did squirt Excel over the top of one of my plants, it turned the hair algae brownish red. How long before you see a difference? I only left it on the plant 25 mins., or so. Didn’t know how long to leave the filters off.
The pictures online of Cyanobacteria, don’t look like what I have!
 I just ordered new plants and I’m going back to Seachem  products! I have to clean this gravel before I can put the plants in.

 I’ve seen that aquarium co op algae plant list before, but I never had a plant that looked anything like the pictures they show!l

 

 

 

 

[MattyM]

On 1/25/2024 at 7:08 PM, Cincala said:

I didn’t use the Maracyn, still debating, but I did squirt Excel over the top of one of my plants, it turned the hair algae brownish red.

This is good! That means, in my experience, that it's staghorn b/c Excel kills it so fast. When it turns that color, it is dead, and snails/algae eaters might eat it now. 

I think you're plan of returning to the products you know and have used for years is a good one 👍

[Tanked]

Changing the substrate will not fix an algae problem.  If you don't have a cleanup crew yet, I would get two or three SAEs.  They will eat BBA and most other algae.  The BBA releases spores into the water column, so new substrate will only mask the problem.  Stepped up water changes will help.

[jo1414]

I'm not an expert but the algae on the coconut does look like cyanobacteria like someone mentioned. I also had the black gunk and bba and staghorn. I used easy carbon every other day. Water changes once a week. Pulled the worst of the leaves covered. I still used easy green but not easy iron. Also used root tabs. It took about 2 weeks to completely go away, but I saw things start clearing after a few days. Oh, and I also used a polishing sponge and changed it every other day before dosing the easy carbon.

[Cincala]

On 1/26/2024 at 5:27 PM, jo1414 said:

I'm not an expert but the algae on the coconut does look like cyanobacteria like someone mentioned. I also had the black gunk and bba and staghorn. I used easy carbon every other day. Water changes once a week. Pulled the worst of the leaves covered. I still used easy green but not easy iron. Also used root tabs. It took about 2 weeks to completely go away, but I saw things start clearing after a few days. Oh, and I also used a polishing sponge and changed it every other day before dosing the easy carbon.

Does Cyanobacteria look like mud? This is a black gunk that rubs right off with my finger.  
For the staghorn I syringed excel on one plant yesterday and again today. The other side of the aquarium I syringed one plant with easy carbon. The hair on the excel plant turned brownish red, the easy carbon plant stayed the same as it was, so far. 
I have trashed most of my plants and bought new ones, coming in next week. The rest I have cut down. I’m trying to deep vacuum the gravel and/or replace most of it before the plants arrive.
I’ve been doing water changes 2 to 3 times a week. I’m stressing my fish out.  
My parameters are good now, and my water is crystal clear! I just have to clear up this mess of algae.  
Thanks for caring!
 

 

[Cincala]

On 1/26/2024 at 12:08 PM, Tanked said:

Changing the substrate will not fix an algae problem.  If you don't have a cleanup crew yet, I would get two or three SAEs.  They will eat BBA and most other algae.  The BBA releases spores into the water column, so new substrate will only mask the problem.  Stepped up water changes will help.

Will Siamese algae eaters eat the black gunk on the gravel? I have Otos, but they don’t eat it. My 13 year old Pleco died last spring, and I didn’t get another one! The only way to clean it is to take it out. Vacuuming doesn’t budge it, that’s why I was thinking about changing it. I don’t think there’s a product made that gets rid of it, please let me know if there is, and I’m doing too many water changes ( 2 to 3 times a week) my fish are getting stressed out! 

Thanks for your advice, I appreciate it!
 

[Cincala]

On 1/26/2024 at 10:47 AM, MattyM said:

This is good! That means, in my experience, that it's staghorn b/c Excel kills it so fast. When it turns that color, it is dead, and snails/algae eaters might eat it now. 

I think you're plan of returning to the products you know and have used for years is a good one 👍

Two people so far think I have cyanobacteria! Have you ever heard of Easy-Life EasyCarbo, its a liquid carbon fertilizer, co2 from a bottle! Seems to be getting good reviews. It’s supposed to kill cyanobacteria. I’m going to order some and try it.

I syringed excel again yesterday on the same plant, and the hair is starting to shrink. My Otos are climbing on the plant now! The other side of the tank I syringed easy carbon, no change yet. 
I haven’t dosed anything this week other then the excel and easy carbon, I don’t know if I should yet. 
I have to get some Siamese algae eaters and plecos,  maybe they’ll help!

[Cincala]

On 1/27/2024 at 1:36 AM, Cincala said:

Two people so far think I have cyanobacteria! Have you ever heard of Easy-Life EasyCarbo, its a liquid carbon fertilizer, co2 from a bottle! Seems to be getting good reviews. It’s supposed to kill cyanobacteria. I’m going to order some and try it.

I syringed excel again yesterday on the same plant, and the hair is starting to shrink. My Otos are climbing on the plant now! The other side of the tank I syringed easy carbon, no change yet. 
I haven’t dosed anything this week other then the excel and easy carbon, I don’t know if I should yet. 
I have to get some Siamese algae eaters and plecos,  maybe they’ll help!

Here are before and after pics of my aquarium!
Top is before! Bottom is after ( the same area) the red tiger lotus next to the coconut shell is destroyed!

[Tanked]

On 1/27/2024 at 1:01 AM, Cincala said:

Will Siamese algae eaters eat the black gunk on the gravel? I have Otos, but they don’t eat it. My 13 year old Pleco died last spring, and I didn’t get another one! The only way to clean it is to take it out. Vacuuming doesn’t budge it, that’s why I was thinking about changing it. I don’t think there’s a product made that gets rid of it, please let me know if there is, and I’m doing too many water changes ( 2 to 3 times a week) my fish are getting stressed out! 

Thanks for your advice, I appreciate it!
 

 

Full disclosure: I am far from an algae expert.   My point was that the gravel is not the problem.  I do not see Cyanobacteria, but I do see several other algae.  The SAEs will eat most or all of them, and in my experience are the hardest working algae eaters in the tank.  There are others. I don't actually see the mud you refer to; that could be algae, or a build up of mulm ie: fish waste and plant debris.

I am guessing that the blooming Anubia is very new.  It is in great shape.  The plants behind it have yellowing, browning leaves, and algae.  These are indicators of a nutrient deficiency. Seachem states that Pristine helps reduce nitrates.  You said your Nitrates are 0-10 ppm.    Yours are too low, and in my opinion, one reason your plants aren't growing.  A lot of the folks here like to see a minimum of 20 ppm. and up to 50 ppm. are considered safe.  With the exception of Easy Green, I do not use any of the products that others have mentioned.  If the plants aren't using the available nutrients, the algae will.  

At this point, you could do a 100% blackout for a week.  I've never tried this, but it would definitely help the algae issue.  Replacing the gravel is a matter of choice, but capping the gravel now may cause other problems.

I would: trim off the damaged leaves and do a deep gravel cleaning, stop using Pristine, and start using the Easy Green as directed.  For algae control, I prefer Hydrogen Peroxide. Try this for a few weeks, change is slow.  Lighting could be an issue, but if you change too many things at the same time, you won't know which one worked.

 

[Cincala]

On 1/27/2024 at 1:05 PM, Tanked said:

 

Full disclosure: I am far from an algae expert.   My point was that the gravel is not the problem.  I do not see Cyanobacteria, but I do see several other algae.  The SAEs will eat most or all of them, and in my experience are the hardest working algae eaters in the tank.  There are others. I don't actually see the mud you refer to; that could be algae, or a build up of mulm ie: fish waste and plant debris.

I am guessing that the blooming Anubia is very new.  It is in great shape.  The plants behind it have yellowing, browning leaves, and algae.  These are indicators of a nutrient deficiency. Seachem states that Pristine helps reduce nitrates.  You said your Nitrates are 0-10 ppm.    Yours are too low, and in my opinion, one reason your plants aren't growing.  A lot of the folks here like to see a minimum of 20 ppm. and up to 50 ppm. are considered safe.  With the exception of Easy Green, I do not use any of the products that others have mentioned.  If the plants aren't using the available nutrients, the algae will.  

At this point, you could do a 100% blackout for a week.  I've never tried this, but it would definitely help the algae issue.  Replacing the gravel is a matter of choice, but capping the gravel now may cause other problems.

I would: trim off the damaged leaves and do a deep gravel cleaning, stop using Pristine, and start using the Easy Green as directed.  For algae control, I prefer Hydrogen Peroxide. Try this for a few weeks, change is slow.  Lighting could be an issue, but if you change too many things at the same time, you won't know which one worked.

 

Thank you! Glad to hear the gravel is not a problem, and I knew I didn’t see cyanobacteria!  What I called black mud, I thought it might be mulm or some kind of algae. It seemed to build up more using Pristine.

My nitrates are 0-10 using aquarium co op test strips, API test kit always has the nitrates at 20 or over.  I only use aquarium co op strips, when in a hurry.

I plan on getting one  or two SAEs and a Bristlenose pleco, but I want to wait until I get a handle on things.

The Anubia is new and so is the Red Flame Sword ( the one behind the anubia). The sword has red, green, and brown leaves. The red leaves faded to brown. I removed the damaged leaves and now it’s in its planter. It is really a beautiful plant, when all the colors are there.
 I have been deep cleaning the gravel and changing the water, every other day.
I have changed the lighting a few times. Right now I am using a Nicrew 24/7. I have Hygger 24/7, 2 Beamsworks, and a Fluval Stingray. Can’t find the best one.

How do you use Hydrogen Peroxide? Do you dip the plants in it, or pour it in the aquarium? This is a 36 gallon bow front.  
I read somewhere online, that blackouts don’t work on staghorn algae.

 

[Cincala]

On 1/27/2024 at 5:27 PM, Cincala said:

Thank you! Glad to hear the gravel is not a problem, and I knew I didn’t see cyanobacteria!  What I called black mud, I thought it might be mulm or some kind of algae. It seemed to build up more using Pristine.

My nitrates are 0-10 using aquarium co op test strips, API test kit always has the nitrates at 20 or over.  I only use aquarium co op strips, when in a hurry.

I plan on getting one  or two SAEs and a Bristlenose pleco, but I want to wait until I get a handle on things.

The Anubia is new and so is the Red Flame Sword ( the one behind the anubia). The sword has red, green, and brown leaves. The red leaves faded to brown. I removed the damaged leaves and now it’s in its planter. It is really a beautiful plant, when all the colors are there.
 I have been deep cleaning the gravel and changing the water, every other day.
I have changed the lighting a few times. Right now I am using a Nicrew 24/7. I have Hygger 24/7, 2 Beamsworks, and a Fluval Stingray. Can’t find the best one.

How do you use Hydrogen Peroxide? Do you dip the plants in it, or pour it in the aquarium? This is a 36 gallon bow front.  
I read somewhere online, that blackouts don’t work on staghorn algae.

 

That’s a finnex stingray, not fluval! I’m losing it!

[Tanked]

On 1/27/2024 at 5:27 PM, Cincala said:

Thank you! Glad to hear the gravel is not a problem, and I knew I didn’t see cyanobacteria!  What I called black mud, I thought it might be mulm or some kind of algae. It seemed to build up more using Pristine.

My nitrates are 0-10 using aquarium co op test strips, API test kit always has the nitrates at 20 or over.  I only use aquarium co op strips, when in a hurry.

I plan on getting one  or two SAEs and a Bristlenose pleco, but I want to wait until I get a handle on things.

The Anubia is new and so is the Red Flame Sword ( the one behind the anubia). The sword has red, green, and brown leaves. The red leaves faded to brown. I removed the damaged leaves and now it’s in its planter. It is really a beautiful plant, when all the colors are there.
 I have been deep cleaning the gravel and changing the water, every other day.
I have changed the lighting a few times. Right now I am using a Nicrew 24/7. I have Hygger 24/7, 2 Beamsworks, and a Fluval Stingray. Can’t find the best one.

How do you use Hydrogen Peroxide? Do you dip the plants in it, or pour it in the aquarium? This is a 36 gallon bow front.  
I read somewhere online, that blackouts don’t work on staghorn algae.

 

All of the lights you mentioned are reported to be good lights.  Your lights could be on too long, or could be too bright.  8 hours would be a maximum.   If you are already running the lights <8 hours try dimming .

Changing the water every other day is probably too much. I would try twice a week.  Your plants and fish require stability.  Each time you change the water you remove some of the required micro and macro nutrients.  When these level fluctuate, the plants suffer and the algae benefits.

I've never had a Red Flame Sword, but the two leaves on the right side look like indicators of a nutrient deficiency.

Peroxide treatments:

• The most common method to treat the whole tank is by adding 1.5 ml. per gallon after you remove your sponge filters and leaving the still water in the dark for at least 30 minutes.  I have used 3ml. and even 5ml. without issue.  Treat only once in a 24 hour period.
• You can lower the water to the minimum level for the fish and spray exposed plants directly  (this method seems too risky to the critters)
• you can also spray the plants as they are now in the aquarium. This is similar to the easy carbon methods
• You can remove the plants and spray directly, letting them sit for 10 minutes.  
• Peroxide is an oxidizer and might harm some plants more than others.  Peroxide is light sensitive and breaks down quickly
• Results should be seen within 24 hours.  The dead algae will change color.  BBA usually turns red

As always, your results may vary, and  treatments may need to be repeated.  Peroxide will also kill some of the beneficial bacteria, so it is important to remove the sponge filters. and let it work in still water.

You can also try Reverse Respiration,  It kills algae but requires removal of the plants to do so.  https://forum.aquariumcoop.com/topic/24465-reverse-respiration/#comment-221140

 

 

 

[Cincala]

On 1/28/2024 at 11:21 AM, Tanked said:

All of the lights you mentioned are reported to be good lights.  Your lights could be on too long, or could be too bright.  8 hours would be a maximum.   If you are already running the lights <8 hours try dimming .

Changing the water every other day is probably too much. I would try twice a week.  Your plants and fish require stability.  Each time you change the water you remove some of the required micro and macro nutrients.  When these level fluctuate, the plants suffer and the algae benefits.

I've never had a Red Flame Sword, but the two leaves on the right side look like indicators of a nutrient deficiency.

Peroxide treatments:

• The most common method to treat the whole tank is by adding 1.5 ml. per gallon after you remove your sponge filters and leaving the still water in the dark for at least 30 minutes.  I have used 3ml. and even 5ml. without issue.  Treat only once in a 24 hour period.
• You can lower the water to the minimum level for the fish and spray exposed plants directly  (this method seems too risky to the critters)
• you can also spray the plants as they are now in the aquarium. This is similar to the easy carbon methods
• You can remove the plants and spray directly, letting them sit for 10 minutes.  
• Peroxide is an oxidizer and might harm some plants more than others.  Peroxide is light sensitive and breaks down quickly
• Results should be seen within 24 hours.  The dead algae will change color.  BBA usually turns red

As always, your results may vary, and  treatments may need to be repeated.  Peroxide will also kill some of the beneficial bacteria, so it is important to remove the sponge filters. and let it work in still water.

You can also try Reverse Respiration,  It kills algae but requires removal of the plants to do so.  https://forum.aquariumcoop.com/topic/24465-reverse-respiration/#comment-221140

 

 

 

Very informative and interesting info!
 Going to try the hydrogen peroxide tomorrow. Dosing the whole tank. 
A 36 gallon aquarium should take about 3 1/2 tablespoons.
Should I hold off on tank maintenance/ water changes until after treatment?  

I want to do the Reverse Respiration on the plants instead of spraying the peroxide on them. I’ll leave them in the tank for now. I will spray peroxide on the Mopani wood, it’s out of the tank.
I heard of Reverse Respiration about a year ago, on this site! Now, I get to try it!

I’m going back to water changes twice a week when I deep vacuum, and dimming my lights.
I hope the peroxide treatment clears the black gunk off the gravel!