Options for maintaining PH-GH-KH (that isn't crushed coral)

[SupersoNick95]

I have very very soft tap water. Aquarium Co-op test strips indicate a gH of 0-25 and kH of about 0-40. the pH is 7. It is basically almost RO water

However, when added to my tank it seems to drop to a pH of 6.0 over a period of several days. I have some UNS contra soil which over time makes the water acidic. I noticed the low pH has caused issues for several of my plants, especially valisneria and crypts. 

I've tried adding a snail or two for algae control but they all die in a couple of days due to the soft water. They thrive in my African Cichlid tank, probably due to the harder water parameters.

I would like to know the best product for maintaining pH-gH-and kH. I'd rather not use crushed coral because I'd like to have more control over dosage. I change water about 25% once a week and it is a high-tech tank so I am comfortable doing the measurements. 

I currently have three products:

• Salty Shrimp gh/kh+
  • I have not tried salty shrimp but I've heard it's great as an all-in-one additive. Raises ph kh and gh. Advertised dosage is one level measuring spoon (approx. 2 grams) per 10 liters (about 2.5 gallons) of water is sufficient.
• Seachem Alkaline buffer
  • Alkaline buffer raised my kH and pH but the advertised range is too high, buffering between 7.2 and 8. dosage also needed to be cut quite significantly. However, this product does not affect gH.
• Seachem Neutral Regulator
  • Works well in rasing pH however it is advertised to precipitate kH and gH in the water. I wonder if this is doing more harm than good. Also, it is phosphate-based so it poses a risk of an algae explosion.

I'd like to add a supplement to 5 gallons of water that will slowly help increase water hardness and buffer. Would Salty Shrimp be the best option?

Edited January 23 by SupersoNick95

[Mmiller2001]

On 1/23/2024 at 8:57 AM, SupersoNick95 said:

caused issues for several of my plants, especially valisneria and crypts. 

These plants grow exceptionally well in low pH as most plants available to us prefer low pH.

The Salty Shrimp is fine but very expensive. Just know the Contra soil is going to pull out carbonates no matter which route you chose and constantly adding KH, having the substrate pull it out and adding back will create instability. Your best bet is to ignore pH and focus on GH. The best products for GH are CaSO4 and MgSO4 (Epsom's salt). They are both dirt cheap and give you complete control.

For KH, if you go this route, K2SO4 (potassium carbonate) is dirt cheap also and can be dosed to precision. It's available on Amazon and will last you many years. Look for food grade or lab grade.

[SupersoNick95]

On 1/23/2024 at 1:04 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

These plants grow exceptionally well in low pH as most plants available to us prefer low pH.

The Salty Shrimp is fine but very expensive. Just know the Contra soil is going to pull out carbonates no matter which route you chose and constantly adding KH, having the substrate pull it out and adding back will create instability. Your best bet is to ignore pH and focus on GH. The best products for GH are CaSO4 and MgSO4 (Epsom's salt). They are both dirt cheap and give you complete control.

For KH, if you go this route, K2SO4 (potassium carbonate) is dirt cheap also and can be dosed to precision. It's available on Amazon and will last you many years. Look for food grade or lab grade.

The contrasoil is capped with sand. Would you say the acid buffering is still at full effect? That’s the only explanation I have for it being so low. Again, I have barely any kH/gH to begin with from tap, it’s basically R/O water lol. It sucks for human consumption too because it has no taste, or minerals. Tastes like Dasani.
 

I already have salty shrimp here in the fish room so I might try it at half dose and see how my kH does. 
 

I did notice when I increased my pH a bit the Vals did much better. My goal isn’t to raise the pH that much. Just make sure it stays at 6.5. Right now, no matter how many water changes I do the pH remains at 6.0-6.2. I am dealing with Ich so I’ve been doing large water changes daily and while my tap is 7.0, it never stays there in tank. Always drops. Maybe I should try the crushed coral but I have no room in my filter for it and putting it in the tank would look unsightly.
 

thanks for the recs on the diy salts! I might do it once the salty shrimp is done. 

[Mmiller2001]

On 1/23/2024 at 11:11 AM, SupersoNick95 said:

The contrasoil is capped with sand. Would you say the acid buffering is still at full effect? That’s the only explanation I have for it being so low. Again, I have barely any kH/gH to begin with from tap, it’s basically R/O water lol. It sucks for human consumption too because it has no taste, or minerals. Tastes like Dasani.
 

I already have salty shrimp here in the fish room so I might try it at half dose and see how my kH does. 
 

I did notice when I increased my pH a bit the Vals did much better. My goal isn’t to raise the pH that much. Just make sure it stays at 6.5. Right now, no matter how many water changes I do the pH remains at 6.0-6.2. I am dealing with Ich so I’ve been doing large water changes daily and while my tap is 7.0, it never stays there in tank. Always drops. Maybe I should try the crushed coral but I have no room in my filter for it and putting it in the tank would look unsightly.
 

thanks for the recs on the diy salts! I might do it once the salty shrimp is done. 

The contra will pull no matter what’s on top of it. There’s still flow throughout the substrate. Just go with the Salty shrimp until it’s used up and then I would go with what I mentioned. When that time comes, message me and we will get the amounts needed.

[tolstoy21]

I agree with the below.

On 1/23/2024 at 1:04 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

These plants grow exceptionally well in low pH as most plants available to us prefer low pH.

The Salty Shrimp is fine but very expensive. Just know the Contra soil is going to pull out carbonates no matter which route you chose and constantly adding KH, having the substrate pull it out and adding back will create instability. Your best bet is to ignore pH and focus on GH. The best products for GH are CaSO4 and MgSO4 (Epsom's salt). They are both dirt cheap and give you complete control.

For KH, if you go this route, K2SO4 (potassium carbonate) is dirt cheap also and can be dosed to precision. It's available on Amazon and will last you many years. Look for food grade or lab grade.

However, if you were to use a product, I would have to vote for Salty Shrimp, as its the easiest to use.  But, if you do have buffering substrate, yeah you'll be fighting a losing battle.

Most of my plants grow pretty well in a Ph between 6 and 6.5 and a dKh of 0. My hardness is on the high side, 9gGH, and I think this is what keeps mine thriving.

Edited January 28 by tolstoy21

[nabokovfan87]

On 1/23/2024 at 7:57 AM, SupersoNick95 said:

I have very very soft tap water. Aquarium Co-op test strips indicate a gH of 0-25 and kH of about 0-40. the pH is 7. It is basically almost RO water

However, when added to my tank it seems to drop to a pH of 6.0 over a period of several days. I have some UNS contra soil which over time makes the water acidic. I noticed the low pH has caused issues for several of my plants, especially valisneria and crypts. 

There's a few things going on. You can view the data on their website, but basically Controsoil stabilizes at 6.8 pH over time. It will absorb KH, sometimes GH, and then you fill the tank up to your desired level once you get it cycled/charged.  This can happen quickly at first, then you just need to have regular water changes.  When it comes to something like very low KH water, you basically always would need to condition the water ahead of time (at least for an hour) just so you can get it setup for the inhabitants of the tank and reduce shock.  It's not a hard and fast rule, but in your situation a mixing station would be very helpful.
 

On 1/23/2024 at 7:57 AM, SupersoNick95 said:

I would like to know the best product for maintaining pH-gH-and kH. I'd rather not use crushed coral because I'd like to have more control over dosage. I change water about 25% once a week and it is a high-tech tank so I am comfortable doing the measurements. 

I currently have three products:

• Salty Shrimp gh/kh+
  • I have not tried salty shrimp but I've heard it's great as an all-in-one additive. Raises ph kh and gh. Advertised dosage is one level measuring spoon (approx. 2 grams) per 10 liters (about 2.5 gallons) of water is sufficient.
• Seachem Alkaline buffer
  • Alkaline buffer raised my kH and pH but the advertised range is too high, buffering between 7.2 and 8. dosage also needed to be cut quite significantly. However, this product does not affect gH.
• Seachem Neutral Regulator
  • Works well in rasing pH however it is advertised to precipitate kH and gH in the water. I wonder if this is doing more harm than good. Also, it is phosphate-based so it poses a risk of an algae explosion.

Designed for planted tanks
Raising GH -->  Seachem Equilibrium
Raising KH --> Seachem Alkalinity Buffer
Lowering KH ---> Seachem Acid Buffer

Designed for Shrimp Tanks:
Salty Shrimp GH+ --> Caridina
Salty Shrimp GH/KH+ --> Neocaridina

Designed for Aquariums (non-planted):
Alkaline Regulator --> Raise PH
Acid Regulator --> Lower PH
Neutral Regulator --> Stabilize PH at 7

What is the stocking of the tank itself?

[SupersoNick95]

On 1/28/2024 at 1:49 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

There's a few things going on. You can view the data on their website, but basically Controsoil stabilizes at 6.8 pH over time. It will absorb KH, sometimes GH, and then you fill the tank up to your desired level once you get it cycled/charged.  This can happen quickly at first, then you just need to have regular water changes.  When it comes to something like very low KH water, you basically always would need to condition the water ahead of time (at least for an hour) just so you can get it setup for the inhabitants of the tank and reduce shock.  It's not a hard and fast rule, but in your situation a mixing station would be very helpful.
 

Designed for planted tanks
Raising GH -->  Seachem Equilibrium
Raising KH --> Seachem Alkalinity Buffer
Lowering KH ---> Seachem Acid Buffer

Designed for Shrimp Tanks:
Salty Shrimp GH+ --> Caridina
Salty Shrimp GH/KH+ --> Neocaridina

Designed for Aquariums (non-planted):
Alkaline Regulator --> Raise PH
Acid Regulator --> Lower PH
Neutral Regulator --> Stabilize PH at 7

What is the stocking of the tank itself?

Pretty heavy stocking: 

-18 rummynose

- 10 corydoras (5, elegant, 5 slate)

however, I’ve never had issues with ammonia, nitrate, nitrite. I even struggle to keep nitrates at 20ppm. I did until recently have two pieces of ghostwood, but I doubt this has been lowering the ph that much considering they’re pretty thin pieces but I could be wrong. 
 

Could it be feeding that’s causing the ph dips? I feed very small amounts once a day. 
 

if the uns buffers at 6.8 then idk what is causing the ph to dip. I do run C02 but all my ph measurements are done way before c02 comes on. 

[Lonkley]

On 1/23/2024 at 7:57 AM, SupersoNick95 said:

I'd rather not use crushed coral because I'd like to have more control over dosage. 

Have you considered putting it in the hob\canister? The more acidic the quicker it will dissolve and it's not part of your substrate. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 1/28/2024 at 11:13 AM, SupersoNick95 said:

if the uns buffers at 6.8 then idk what is causing the ph to dip. I do run C02 but all my ph measurements are done way before c02 comes on. 

Basically, you test your KH and then go from there.  It could swing literally just from the KH being used up and then you have pH dropping as a result of any type of organics in the water.  Robust filtration to remove those organics, high maintenance standards, and things like your buffers would give you that stability over time.  Because the controsoil is in there, you'll just want to test/monitor KH over time and make sure that base value is there while the substrate charges (absorbs positive ions from the water)

https://www.aquariumcoop.com/blogs/aquarium/ph-gh-kh
 

KH measures the amount of carbonates and bicarbonates in water, which affects the buffering capacity of the water. This means that KH helps neutralize acids and prevents your pH from changing too rapidly, which is useful because sudden pH crashes can cause health issues in your fish. Low KH means your water has less buffering capacity and the pH swings easily. High KH means your water has more buffering capacity and the pH level is hard to change.

Think of KH like a trash can. The higher the KH, the larger the trash can. If we overflow that trash can, then a pH crash occurs. Therefore, people with low KH in their tap water often use crushed coral to gradually raise the KH (or increase the size of their trash can) and prevent pH crashes.

[SupersoNick95]

On 1/28/2024 at 6:52 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Basically, you test your KH and then go from there.  It could swing literally just from the KH being used up and then you have pH dropping as a result of any type of organics in the water.  Robust filtration to remove those organics, high maintenance standards, and things like your buffers would give you that stability over time.  Because the controsoil is in there, you'll just want to test/monitor KH over time and make sure that base value is there while the substrate charges (absorbs positive ions from the water)

https://www.aquariumcoop.com/blogs/aquarium/ph-gh-kh
 

KH measures the amount of carbonates and bicarbonates in water, which affects the buffering capacity of the water. This means that KH helps neutralize acids and prevents your pH from changing too rapidly, which is useful because sudden pH crashes can cause health issues in your fish. Low KH means your water has less buffering capacity and the pH swings easily. High KH means your water has more buffering capacity and the pH level is hard to change.

Think of KH like a trash can. The higher the KH, the larger the trash can. If we overflow that trash can, then a pH crash occurs. Therefore, people with low KH in their tap water often use crushed coral to gradually raise the KH (or increase the size of their trash can) and prevent pH crashes.

Even after keeping fish for 2-3 years, I'm still learning everyday. I feel like flow may be a factor. I was running an aquaclear 50 and even that was not getting enough agitation at the bottom. Lots of dead spots. I just re-installed a UNS 60 canister that had been frustrating me, but the flow is much stronger. Rattles like hell though. Same gph but the outflow creates a lot of circulation. Maybe the organics were settling far too much with the HOB? 

Anyways thank you for the insights, very very helpful reading. Now that I have this canister running I may try the crushed coral since i have some room. 

[nabokovfan87]

Very well could be.  Take a video of the UNS thing and then let's figure out why you're hearing some noise.  It should be silent!!!  If it's not, they do have pretty good support too.

Essentially, it can be difficult for filters to pull in the junk, which is why knowing how to siphon well is a very useful skill!