Supermassive Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Some of my plants aren't doing as well as I think they could and I'm starting to get algae growing on some leaves. I'm thinking I should come up with a more refined fertilization schedule but I have no idea where to start. The plants that aren't doing that well are my S. repens and helanthium quadricostatus. All of my other plants I'm quite happy with except for some algae on the leaves. My tank is 10 gallons and I'm running two Nicrew Aqualux at 40% power each. I'm estimating my tank actually has about 8 gallons of water in it. For fertilizers I use EG, flourish iron, flourish phosphorous, flourish comprehensive, magnesium sulfate, and aquavitro mineralize. I do have root tabs but I'm trying not to use them because I've heard you don't need root tabs if you have good fertilization in the water column and I'd prefer to eliminate variables. I dose all my ferts once a week after water changes. I do 3 gallon water changes with 50/50 tap and distilled. My tank GH is around 80ppm and KH is around 40ppm. Temp is 78-79. I was unable to find information about calcium or magnesium in my tap water so I'm not sure about cal:mag ratio. I dose EG 30 drops per week. My nitrates usually test around 20-30ppm. I dose .8ml of iron, 1ml of phosphorous, .75ml of comprehensive, .125ml mineralize, and a little under 1/8tsp magnesium. Again that's once a week after water changes. Because I've started getting algae growing on my leaves last week I decided not to use any phosphorous or comprehensive but that is just me taking a shot in the dark. I haven't started learning about types of algae and their causes. The plants I have are: narrow leaf java fern, anubias nana, anubias petite, limnophila sessiliflora, helanthium quadricostatus, S. repens, and I recently added a few stems of Hygrophila rosanervig. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppysnail Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 I do not use fertilizer but when I tried using individual nutrients @Mmiller2001 had fantastic guidance for me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mmiller2001 Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 Looks like GSA, I’d raise PO4 a third more than what you were previously dosing. The internet likes to demonize PO4 for some reason. I keep my tank at 10ppm PO4. Having it this high has always stopped GSA. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeQ Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 (edited) Im big on EI dosing which is absolutely idiot proof IMO (which is exactly the reason why I love it so). This is adding macros on Monday, Wednesday, Friday. Micros on Tuesday, Thursday, Saturdays, then a big water change (50%) on Sundays, with a few pumps of GH booster afterwards. The GH booster is to ensure that you have a supply of calcium :magnesium IF you don't know the ratios in your tap. As far as your tanks temperature if you can lower that it would be a plus. As plants grow better (errrrr easier) at lower temps. Along with your tank water being well oxygenated (aka get a bubbler) Edited January 18 by JoeQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mmiller2001 Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 On 1/18/2024 at 10:03 AM, JoeQ said: As far as your tanks temperature if you can lower that it would be a plus. As plants grow better (errrrr easier) at lower temps. Along with your tank water being well oxygenated (aka get a bubbler) Great advice here. I’ve since lowered my tank temps to around upper 74 to lower 75. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supermassive Posted January 18 Author Share Posted January 18 On 1/18/2024 at 11:51 AM, Mmiller2001 said: Looks like GSA, I’d raise PO4 a third more than what you were previously dosing. Its kind of hard to tell from the photos but It looks more like a thick fuzzy carpet of algae on the leaves. Someone had mentioned it looked like GDA on a different post. I can try to get some better photos of the algae if it will help. On 1/18/2024 at 11:51 AM, Mmiller2001 said: The internet likes to demonize PO4 for some reason. I keep my tank at 10ppm PO4. Having it this high has always stopped GSA. Would 10ppm be okay with no CO2 and medium to low light? On 1/18/2024 at 12:03 PM, JoeQ said: As far as your tanks temperature if you can lower that it would be a plus. As plants grow better (errrrr easier) at lower temps. Along with your tank water being well oxygenated (aka get a bubbler) Its a betta tank so I'd only be comfortable lowering the temp by 1 degree. Would that have any affect on the algae? I do run an airstone as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mmiller2001 Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 I wouldn’t go 10ppm right away. Just increase your dose by a quarter to a third and give it some time while observing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supermassive Posted January 18 Author Share Posted January 18 On 1/18/2024 at 1:11 PM, Mmiller2001 said: I wouldn’t go 10ppm right away. Just increase your dose by a quarter to a third and give it some time while observing. I checked rotala butterfly and it says the dose of flourish phosphorous I've been adding only raises PO4 by 0.13ppm. I didn't realize it was that little. I would almost need to 100x the dose lol. Do you think it would be safe to just double it and see what that does or still increase it slowly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeQ Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 On 1/18/2024 at 1:09 PM, Supermassive said: Its kind of hard to tell from the photos but It looks more like a thick fuzzy carpet of algae on the leaves. Someone had mentioned it looked like GDA on a different post. I can try to get some better photos of the algae if it will help. Would 10ppm be okay with no CO2 and medium to low light? Its a betta tank so I'd only be comfortable lowering the temp by 1 degree. Would that have any affect on the algae? I do run an airstone as well. Disclaimer* Not a licensed biologist, this is my understanding of the germ war going on in our tanks. I urge the reader to do your own research. I'm not sure about 1 degree, but lower temperatures (in general) increse the waters ability to hold oxygen, well oxygenated water supports more beneficial bacteria. The more beneficial bacteria working, the less "food" bad bacteria has to grow. Also another thing to consider is in warmer water organics break down faster. These organics break down into their building blocks. Nitrates, Phosphate, co2, ect. If you can't lower your temp its EXTREMELY IMPORTANT to keep your substrate clean for the reason above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supermassive Posted January 18 Author Share Posted January 18 On 1/18/2024 at 1:30 PM, JoeQ said: Also another thing to consider is in warmer water organics break down faster. These organics break down into their building blocks. Nitrates, Phosphate, co2, ect. If you can't lower your temp its EXTREMELY IMPORTANT to keep your substrate clean for the reason above. Does this mean deep gravel vacuuming regularly or just keep the surface of the substrate clean? I've been wondering about this recently. I've heard people say gravel vac every few months or so, and I've heard people say they never gravel vac their planted tanks. I'm not sure what is best for me. Also my tank is very low stocked. 1 betta and a nerite. plus some pest snails. I'm going to get a couple amanos at some point though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeQ Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 On 1/18/2024 at 1:40 PM, Supermassive said: Does this mean deep gravel vacuuming regularly or just keep the surface of the substrate clean? I've been wondering about this recently. I've heard people say gravel vac every few months or so, and I've heard people say they never gravel vac their planted tanks. I'm not sure what is best for me. Also my tank is very low stocked. 1 betta and a nerite. plus some pest snails. I'm going to get a couple amanos at some point though. I'm in the never deep gravel vac a planted tank category with a few exceptions which include. mulm has compacted to the point of inhibiting root growth (but even then id try aerating the substrate first) . Substrate is anoxic (no oxygen) Or The mulm is leaching into the water colum. Otherwise id do a light quick gravel vac and be Johnny on the spot when it comes to dead organics, dieing plant matter and mindful about over feeding. As for your "pest" snails congratz! Most people don't realize the benefit they are to your eco system! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mmiller2001 Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 On 1/18/2024 at 11:20 AM, Supermassive said: I checked rotala butterfly and it says the dose of flourish phosphorous I've been adding only raises PO4 by 0.13ppm. I didn't realize it was that little. I would almost need to 100x the dose lol. Do you think it would be safe to just double it and see what that does or still increase it slowly? Should be fine to do that. This is why I go dry fertilizer, because that’s expensive water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supermassive Posted January 18 Author Share Posted January 18 On 1/18/2024 at 2:10 PM, JoeQ said: I'm in the never deep gravel vac a planted tank category with a few exceptions which include. mulm has compacted to the point of inhibiting root growth (but even then id try aerating the substrate first) . Substrate is anoxic (no oxygen) Or The mulm is leaching into the water colum. What is aerating substrate? Just disturbing it a little so it gets fresh water and oxygen? And how would you tell if its anoxic? On 1/18/2024 at 2:10 PM, JoeQ said: Otherwise id do a light quick gravel vac and be Johnny on the spot when it comes to dead organics, dieing plant matter and mindful about over feeding. As for your "pest" snails congratz! Most people don't realize the benefit they are to your eco system! Yeah the snails really don't bother me. I think it makes the tank look more natural and they help so win win in my book. On 1/18/2024 at 2:10 PM, Mmiller2001 said: because that’s expensive water Lol yeah seems like it. Ill look for a different option. Thanks for all the advice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeQ Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 On 1/18/2024 at 2:27 PM, Supermassive said: What is aerating substrate? Just disturbing it a little so it gets fresh water and oxygen? And how would you tell if its anoxic? Water movement helps aeration, well growing plant roots release oxygen and critters that disturb the substrate. One of them being "pest" snails. As far as being anoxic a pretty good clue would be if its releasing methane gas. I could be using the wrong term, there are people who intentionally create Anoxic conditions as a method of filtration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supermassive Posted January 18 Author Share Posted January 18 On 1/18/2024 at 2:37 PM, JoeQ said: Water movement helps aeration, well growing plant roots release oxygen and critters that disturb the substrate. One of them being "pest" snails. Okay that makes sense. I'm guessing substrate grain size could make a big difference too. On 1/18/2024 at 2:37 PM, JoeQ said: As far as being anoxic a pretty good clue would be if its releasing methane gas. I could be using the wrong term, there are people who intentionally create Anoxic conditions as a method of filtration. Is that like the deep gravel beds I've seen on youtube or something different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeQ Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 On 1/18/2024 at 2:53 PM, Supermassive said: Okay that makes sense. I'm guessing substrate grain size could make a big difference too. Im not really sure how grain size affects it. And yes I'm referring to the deep sand beds which I haven't look into that much. It's kind of pointless having a 50 gallon tank filled with 25 gallons worth of sand for the sakes of filtration IMO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mmiller2001 Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 The big NBAT Dutch guys seem to stay around the 1-3mm grain size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supermassive Posted January 19 Author Share Posted January 19 @Mmiller2001 What phosphorous compounds do plants care about? If rotala says my fert adds P2O5, P, and PO4 should I add them all up to determine overall P or how does that work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mmiller2001 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 On 1/19/2024 at 11:32 AM, Supermassive said: @Mmiller2001 What phosphorous compounds do plants care about? If rotala says my fert adds P2O5, P, and PO4 should I add them all up to determine overall P or how does that work? Just go off PO4 ppm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supermassive Posted January 19 Author Share Posted January 19 (edited) On 1/19/2024 at 1:47 PM, Mmiller2001 said: Just go off PO4 ppm. Will do, thanks. If you don't mind could you please explain why only the PO4 matters if its not too complicated Edited January 19 by Supermassive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mmiller2001 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 On 1/19/2024 at 11:57 AM, Supermassive said: Will do, thanks. If you don't mind could you please explain why only the PO4 matters if its not too complicated I believe it has to do with solubility issues and the plants ability to uptake P. I’m not a biologist but @Seattle_Aquarist could probably explain it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeQ Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 (edited) The dry version of phosphates (Kh2Po4) is made up of potassium and phosphates. You'll have to learn to do molar math to figure out the exact amounts. It's not so much about "plants caring about' the makeup of the element. It's more just a matter of chemestry. As for in your premix, 'P205', and 'P' this is probably a different phosphate component responsible for the 'P' content in a premixed product. Below is a screen shot of each product. Edited January 20 by JoeQ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supermassive Posted January 20 Author Share Posted January 20 On 1/20/2024 at 6:40 AM, JoeQ said: The dry version of phosphates (Kh2Po4) is made up of potassium and phosphates. You'll have to learn to do molar math to figure out the exact amounts. It's not so much about "plants caring about' the makeup of the element. It's more just a matter of chemestry. As for in your premix, 'P205', and 'P' this is probably a different phosphate component responsible for the 'P' content in a premixed product. Below is a screen shot of each product. Chemistry was my worst subject. I'm not really sure what this means other than flourish phosphorous has very little phosphorous compared to a dry fert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeQ Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 On 1/20/2024 at 10:53 AM, Supermassive said: Chemistry was my worst subject. I'm not really sure what this means other than flourish phosphorous has very little phosphorous compared to a dry fert They have the same total amount of potassium / phosphates. Only thing that differs is the dosage and source. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supermassive Posted January 20 Author Share Posted January 20 On 1/20/2024 at 10:58 AM, JoeQ said: They have the same total amount of potassium / phosphates. Only thing that differs is the dosage and source. Ah okay I see that now. Thank you 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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