Goldfish Nitrates and Nitrites

[KoeIC]

Hello! Hopefully this doesn’t get too much criticism, but I’m pretty much at my last resort here. 
to begin, I have a 60 gallon freshwater tank that was started on October 15th, 2023. We currently have it stocked with 5 goldfish, and 2 little common plecos. (This is not going to be permanent, yes I’m aware they all grow to significant sizes). However, I have kept up with weekly water changes, and monthly filter cleanings/changes. Since thanksgiving weekend we have had extremely high nitrite and nitrate levels. I have had 2 large hanging filters on the tank (I know one would be enough but one was from an old tank we were using the bacteria from that previously healthy tank) I use API quick start, stress coat, and aquarium salt with each water change. On 11/29/23 I did a 25% water change, another on 11/30/23 then a 10% water change on 12/1/23, 10% water change on 12/2/23. Then on 12/3/23 I added fluval nitrate remover pads to the filters. And 12/4/23 I did a 25% water change. My water parameters are not changing. I have 100-150ppm nitrates and 10 or more ppm nitrites. Unfortunately my readings are off test strips at the moment. My ammonia has stayed under 0.5ppm. The ph level stays between 6.8-7.2. The water temp stays between 68-70*F. I clean the gravel with water change as well. The water is clear with no algae, odor or particles. However, about 2 days ago I started noticing that 2 of the goldfish and the 2 plecos are getting Ich and then one other goldfish is getting fin rot from nitrate poisoning. I treated them last night with high concentrations of aquarium salt and they’re all lethargic of course. I have medications coming in the mail (local pet stores don’t carry any). Is there anything anyone can think of to help with my nitrate/nitrite levels??? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Google can only answer so many questions. 

[jwcarlson]

When you say that you're doing monthly filter cleaning/changes, what do you mean there?  Rinsing the media or are you swapping out entire pads for new ones?  

 

How are you testing your water?  Test kit with liquids or some sort of test strips?

[KoeIC]

My filters originally only had filter cartridges. At half a month I have had to rinse them in dirty tank water to unclog the back a little bit. After a month I have switched back and forth from both filters. I.e. the left side pump had only ran 15 days in the old tank so 15 days later I changed it. The right side filter was changed 15 days after that because it reached 30 days. If that makes sense 🤣. 
I have multiple test strips to test the water parameters. I accidentally bought 200 of them before realizing that test kit liquids would have been the better choice. I was hoping to run them out before purchasing a kit. 

[jwcarlson]

It's always tough to give advice without seeing what's going on or witnessing it.  First off, I'd stop feeding the fish if you haven't already.

Second, I would test your tap water with one of your strips and see what they look like.

And then I would do as big of a water change as you possibly can (and still provide the correct temperature water).  

If you can post pictures of the tank and/or your test strips that might also help.

 

Welcome to to the forum, by the way!

 

[KoeIC]

 Here are some terrible photos of the test strip that doesn’t include the ammonia test from 12/3/23 directly after a water change. I will have to get better pictures tonight after work. 
I have tested my tap water and the only thing I’ve concluded from that is that the chlorine is high (which I treat before adding to the tank) and that the ph is slightly acidic for freshwater straight from tap. 
 

Thank you for the welcome! I’ve been looking for something like this since forever and I finally stumbled across it 😃

This is another not-great photo of the tank! I’m starting to think the physical filters at the bottom of the pumps (where water is sucked in) are not the best I want to switch them to the sponge (can’t think of the name) filters  

Edited December 7, 2023 by KCobbl

[Biotope Biologist]

I would remove those nitrate scrubber pads first. Second can you take a photo of the filter compartments? I would like to see what media you have for the bacteria to seed.

 

Second I would not add the medication to the water until you have dropped the nitrates and nitrite. No need to stress the system more than it is.

 

Third as @jwcarlson said test the tap, your nitrates/nitrites could be coming from there.

 

It sounds like the cycle crashed and the bacteria you have couldn’t keep up with the high waste that 5 goldfish and 2 pleco produce.

[KoeIC]

Yeah I need different filter media but before I go out splurging on some I just need to know what. The cartridges in the filter are aqua-tech filters #3. I have sponge filters in behind them. I can get pictures tonight. 
@jwcarlson mentioned to do a big water change. I was thinking of doing a 75% water change as soon as possible? What would you recommend the order of steps I should take to treat this? Water change and wait for the nitrates to lower to treat then? 
 

Thank you all for all of your help also! 

[KoeIC]

Here are tonight’s readings. My carbonate reading took a plunge and looks like nitrate and nitrite are down a level than they have been but not ideal at all! 

[Colu]

[KoeIC]

Thank you so much! 

[jwcarlson]

Ich X is also supposed to help with nitrite poisoning (but I do not understand the science).

Your pH might not be conducive to bacterial growth for your filter.  Might be too low, though the test strips I think are almost impossible to read.  

I don't think you need new filter media, I think you need to stop pulling the filters out and replacing them.  Those replaceable filter cartridges are basically a scam.  I wouldn't do anything other than rinsing them until you get things stabilized.  Then replace them with sponges.

Edited December 8, 2023 by jwcarlson

[KoeIC]

@jwcarlson I think you’re right. With my ph strips I haven’t seen this tank get above 7.0 at all. I have been fiddling to raise the ph with Tetra PH Correct (which I find the most effective) and api PH up which I didnt found significant changes with before using the tetra ph correct tablets. 
eventually, once the tank stabilized, I want to take one of these hanging filters out and only use sponge filters in the remaining one. 
I did end up doing a 40 gallon water change tonight and my readings did come back better than I’ve seen in weeks. I also did not feed them tonight. However, my tap water is acidic so it almost always takes my ph too low with every water change. 
 

Thank you so much for all of your help! I’m always looking to know more and hear more! 

[KoeIC]

I don’t have any aeration in my tank yet. (I didn’t know this was SO necessary). But my Uv sterilizer pump does have the option to run without the Uv light on. Would it be a good idea to run this without the light until I get some other aeration in the tank? Thanks

[jwcarlson]

It probably won't hurt.

Regarding your pH, I would ditch all the pH additives and maybe get some crushed coral.

Also, 75% water change sounds good, but only if you test your tap water as it's possible the tap water is causing the problem.

And continue to not feed for a few days at least.

[KoeIC]

I will do that! Unfortunately this tank was started on a budget 🤣 so water changes are still being done with a few 5 gallon buckets. I will get some crushed coral! Thank you. 

[Galabar]

It can take 40+ days to cycle a new tank (if you didn't bring over any new filter media).  This would be after you add a source of ammonia.  Was it ever the case that you saw nitrite and then it when down to zero (then went back up)?

[KoeIC]

@Galabar Unfortunately, I wasn't very well educated about the entire nitrogen cycle until about a month or so in. What I mean by this is that I messed up and thought "oh the test strips show 0, good" for a long time and went off of that until I learned exactly how the cycle works and the 'rollercoaster ride' it's supposed to properly go through. If that makes sense. So, I only have information about exact water parameters written down from maybe late October, early November. So I don't believe I ever could have caught it if it did. The test strips are also difficult to read, unfortunately. Any suggestions, besides not changing my filter media & buying a water test kit (not strips) would be helpful! Thank you for your information and help.

[KoeIC]

After the water change last night, I did test the water before work this morning and the test strips indicated 0ppm ammonia, 10ppm nitrate, 1ppm nitrite, 7 ph. This is the lowest I have seen it since Thanksgiving weekend! I'm just glad to see it going in the right direction finally 🤣.  The fish also haven't been fed since yesterday morning. I believe I had a bad habit of overfeeding, for sure. 

@Biotope Biologist You had mentioned not medicating the tank until the nitrates and nitrites have dropped. So you probably have an obvious answer. But, if I get both to 0ppm, should I be good to go ahead and add the medication? Also, when medicating I have read to remove all activated carbon before medication. Should I remove the "scam" aqua-tech filter carts out of the hanging filters I have? I think they have activated carbon??? However, they're the main part of my filtrations right now besides the 2 small sponge filters also in there with the carts. 

Man I feel very unknowledgeable, I apologize. 🤣

[Biotope Biologist]

Yes to both! Haha and no worries this industry feeds off the inexperienced. Which is sad because a better business model would be to inform the buyer and have them be successful and coming back for years.

 

ACO follows the latter model hence this forum, so you’re in the right place just keep asking your questions 

[KoeIC]

Thank you! 
I have noticed both of those things from the industry and ACO. That’s why I was so excited to find this and join! 😂 finally some people that are honest. 

[KoeIC]

Tonight I did another 25% water change to continue slowing Nitrate and Nitrite levels. I feel like 25% does nothing. However, like I previously said it’s me and a 5 gallon bucket doing all the work until I can get something like a python. But good news, Nitrate readings <25ppm Nitrites <1ppm according to the test trips. 
 

It’s been 36 hours since I last fed the fish though? Should I wait longer or give some? 

[jwcarlson]

I have found that the stinking nitrite->nitrate part of the cycle hangs on for a long time.

You're doing a good job getting things squared away, well done!

For the bulk changing of water you can buy lengths of vinyl tube from a home improvement type store that might get you to the point of being able to at least drain without hauling buckets.  You're right though.  Bucket brigade isn't very fun!

Edited December 9, 2023 by jwcarlson

[KoeIC]

Unfortunately one of our plecos passed away overnight. I noticed him not moving too much last night and this morning he was gone for sure. My thoughts are between the stress of the tank and the ich he just wasn’t going to make it. Also, the tank temp dropped overnight to about 68 degrees. 😕 (it was about 70*F before) And I know plecos like a little warmer  

I really hope it was just the temperature and the other pleco can stay alive, he’s doing well this morning. Still going to do another large water change today to hopefully get the last of the nitrate/nitrites down and be able to medicate when the shipment comes in the mail tomorrow. (Hopefully it comes on time). 
 

Is there any suggestion what to do with the poor little guy after he’s died? 🫣 Any suggestions to do anything with the tank since he’s been in there? 

Edited December 9, 2023 by KoeIC

[Galabar]

For ich, it doesn't just show up in a tank.  It needs to be introduced.  I assume that the fish were purchased when the tank was set up (around October 15th)?

[KoeIC]

On 12/9/2023 at 3:48 PM, Galabar said:

For ich, it doesn't just show up in a tank.  It needs to be introduced.  I assume that the fish were purchased when the tank was set up (around October 15th)?

The plecos and the moors were introduced to the tank about a month later Nov 16th so I’m assuming that’s where it could have come from.