Semi-Auto Water Change System

[Chris]

Hey guys,

Finally going to implement a fish rack in my fish room, after planning for the better part of the year. It's been one thing after another since we moved into this house, and while I wouldn't say we're finally catching a break, I've decided some other stuff can wait so I can have some fishy relaxation time.

I'm planning on utilizing some steel utility racks (Kobalt, 1500lb evenly distributed load per shelf, and I'll be under half that amount of weight) and I'm wanting to implement a semi-automatic water change system - unfortunately I don't have a drain in the fish room (or any plumbing, for that matter), so I'll be using a python running from the bathroom to bring water in during water change time, and want to drill overflows onto each tank, have them drain into a waste bucket, and then use a sump pump to pump the water into the drain (for saltwater) or into the yard/garden (for freshwater).

Which pump/brand of pump would you all recommend? I have no experience with these pumps, but it'll have to move a fair bit of water through roughly 25' of hose. Not extremely quickly, but I'll want a decent flow rate.

Any tips on diameter of PVC? Not super concerned with the individual lines from tank-to-drainpipe, but the drainpipe itself - is there a way to calculate how big the pipe needs to be to handle X amount of water? I was considering using a 2-3" pipe, but wasn't sure if that was way too large or not enough, and not sure how to find out!

I'd like to put a valve on my python, so that I can turn on the sink, have water flowing into the tank, but stop the flow at the outlet of python instead of running back to the sink. Is that possible? I'd just need to stop the flow long enough to move the python to another tank. What kind of valve would I use? I have a PVC python hook that I'm looking to attach the valve to, so I can adapt/size it appropriately.

I'm planning on drilling the bulkheads about 25% down the height of the tank, and having a valve behind each bulkhead. That way I can flip the valve, drain the tank, and refill for a true 25% WC instead of just overflowing into the bulkhead. This is especially important for SW tanks, where salt cost makes WCs via overflowing expensive. Any issues with this? Any particular valves I should use/watch out for?

Thanks for any tips!

[jwcarlson]

I've been using two of these for the last two years and they have been great.  I have been thinking about setting up some sort of semi-auto system myself, but I have some additional utilities that you don't have so not sure the thoughts bouncing around in my head are applicable for your situation.  Plus I don't have a rack, but I would like to semi-automate just a couple of tanks, basically.  Thought about making some PVC overflows (I think King of DIY has a video of how to make one) and setting the height of the overflow to XX% of what I want for the water change.  Basically putting a valve on the outflow, turning that on and being able to walk away, then just come back and top everything off that drained.  That's what I do with my discus tank, it has a dedicated siphon line that runs through the way and down into the basement sink with a splitter valve that allows me to drain from one line and then flip two valves and fill from the same line.  It's worked well and makes things quite easy for me.

It takes about 15 minutes to pump 70 gallons of water about 15 feet up from my basement to my discus tank.  To get an idea of flow rates.  It moves a lot of water.  The second one I use in the basement to refill tanks from my aging barrels and it's *a lot* of flow when pumping just a few feet of head.

[lefty o]

On 12/7/2023 at 7:07 AM, Chris said:

Hey guys,

Finally going to implement a fish rack in my fish room, after planning for the better part of the year. It's been one thing after another since we moved into this house, and while I wouldn't say we're finally catching a break, I've decided some other stuff can wait so I can have some fishy relaxation time.

I'm planning on utilizing some steel utility racks (Kobalt, 1500lb evenly distributed load per shelf, and I'll be under half that amount of weight) and I'm wanting to implement a semi-automatic water change system - unfortunately I don't have a drain in the fish room (or any plumbing, for that matter), so I'll be using a python running from the bathroom to bring water in during water change time, and want to drill overflows onto each tank, have them drain into a waste bucket, and then use a sump pump to pump the water into the drain (for saltwater) or into the yard/garden (for freshwater).

Which pump/brand of pump would you all recommend? I have no experience with these pumps, but it'll have to move a fair bit of water through roughly 25' of hose. Not extremely quickly, but I'll want a decent flow rate.

Any tips on diameter of PVC? Not super concerned with the individual lines from tank-to-drainpipe, but the drainpipe itself - is there a way to calculate how big the pipe needs to be to handle X amount of water? I was considering using a 2-3" pipe, but wasn't sure if that was way too large or not enough, and not sure how to find out!

I'd like to put a valve on my python, so that I can turn on the sink, have water flowing into the tank, but stop the flow at the outlet of python instead of running back to the sink. Is that possible? I'd just need to stop the flow long enough to move the python to another tank. What kind of valve would I use? I have a PVC python hook that I'm looking to attach the valve to, so I can adapt/size it appropriately.

I'm planning on drilling the bulkheads about 25% down the height of the tank, and having a valve behind each bulkhead. That way I can flip the valve, drain the tank, and refill for a true 25% WC instead of just overflowing into the bulkhead. This is especially important for SW tanks, where salt cost makes WCs via overflowing expensive. Any issues with this? Any particular valves I should use/watch out for?

Thanks for any tips!

pythons come with a shutoff valve right near the suction end. if yours dont have one, have no fear, you can buy the parts.

[AllFishNoBrakes]

On 12/7/2023 at 8:27 AM, lefty o said:

pythons come with a shutoff valve right near the suction end. if yours dont have one, have no fear, you can buy the parts.

Was going to mention this same thing. My Python has it, but I never use it. For some weird reason I still prefer to run to the bathroom sink lol. 

[madmark285]

On 12/7/2023 at 8:07 AM, Chris said:

I'm planning on drilling the bulkheads about 25% down the height of the tank, and having a valve behind each bulkhead.

The cheap PVC ball value shown below can be very difficult to turn over time. 

I would use a gate value such as ProLine Stop Valve PVC. Just remember, a 1" PVC pipe at full siphon has flow rate over 500 gph (the actually value depends on the height). So 3/4" PVC pipe for drains is plenty big enough. 

For my home sump pump, I use 1 1/2" pipe or hose.

[Chris]

Alrighty y'all, I'm going to try and get a few parts to mock up what I'm thinking before I commit to see what you think. I'll try to post a picture later, if I make it to the hardware store on lunch to buy stuff.

It's been suggested to me to have a T coming off of the bulkhead with a riser pipe at the top of T to avoid gurgling and glugging while draining. I'd imagine I'd have the valve between the T and the bulkhead, correct? Just to avoid having the riser pipe partially filled with water 24/7. Then, on the bottom of the T I'd have the tubing running to a T on my drainage pipe, which would then run to a waste water container with an automatic sump pump.

[Andy's Fish Den]

A friend of mine years ago had a fish room in his basement and the basement did not have a sump pump or floor drain in as the house sat up very high and never had flooding issues. Anyways,  for water changes he had a 50 or 55 gallon Brute type trash can plumbed in one corner of the fish room. Inside was a sump pump, he would drain water into the trash can and the sump pump would automatically pump the water out when the float switch was activated. IHe had it plumbed into the main sewer drain of his house so that it would just drain out into the sewers.

[Chris]

On 12/8/2023 at 7:09 AM, Andy's Fish Den said:

A friend of mine years ago had a fish room in his basement and the basement did not have a sump pump or floor drain in as the house sat up very high and never had flooding issues. Anyways,  for water changes he had a 50 or 55 gallon Brute type trash can plumbed in one corner of the fish room. Inside was a sump pump, he would drain water into the trash can and the sump pump would automatically pump the water out when the float switch was activated. IHe had it plumbed into the main sewer drain of his house so that it would just drain out into the sewers.

So with a Brute trash can, the can wouldn't fill with water above the level of the drainage pipe... correct?

The bottom rack of tanks are gonna be close to the floor, so the drainage pipe will probably be 18-24" off the floor.

Say I had the drainage pipe plumbed into the can at 24" high. Once the can filled to 24", the water would just start backing up into the pipe, since I'll have a riser pipe to let air escape. Correct?

I guess with an automatic sump pump it would pump the water out way before we got to the 24" mark, but if the pump fails and I don't notice for a bit, what would be the worst case scenario assuming the plumbing was good? I'd turn the water change valve, water would fill the can and the pipe, and then no more water would flow - I still wouldn't end up with water on the floor, I don't think, barring a leak in the plumbing.

[tolstoy21]

I also use the Superior Pump. They are a great choice and available at most big box hardware stores. It's the perfect choice if you're just using it to discharge waste water, but I don't know what's its resilience to saltwater is. It's mostly plastic, so as long as it's not sitting in saltwater for weeks on end, and gets an occasional rinse with freshwater, it will probably be fine.

On 12/7/2023 at 8:07 AM, Chris said:

Any tips on diameter of PVC? Not super concerned with the individual lines from tank-to-drainpipe, but the drainpipe itself - is there a way to calculate how big the pipe needs to be to handle X amount of water? I was considering using a 2-3" pipe, but wasn't sure if that was way too large or not enough, and not sure how to find out!

I hook my sump pump up to a garden hose and not PVC (garden hose is waaaaaaay easier). The flow rate on even the smallest sump pump is massive and the head pressure is substantial. It ill move water through a garden hose faster than you can drain it from an aquarium (unless you're draining many, many at the same time).  People commonly use these to drain pools and just hook them up to regular hoses.

I drain mine into a very small tote and it keeps up with draining maybe 2 or 3 tanks simultaneously without overflowing the tote. If you have the sump in a larger container, like a brute can, you'll be fine. 

Edited December 9, 2023 by tolstoy21

[tolstoy21]

Jut snapped a few pics of my setup . These are meant to show how simple this can all be in theory. 

This first picture shows how small my waste water container is. The sump + float valve keeps up with my usage fine. A bigger waste water container would help if the flow of water into this tote exceeded its ability.  In fact, I had a much large container there but realized that I was only using a small portion of its total capacity, so I downsized in order to squeeze another 10g into the room.

The sump is connected to a simple garden hose that runs up 7 feet and across my basement, about 25", discharging into a slop sink.

This second pics is of a simple DIY siphon hook for use when emptying tanks that are not hooked up to the auto-water-change system. These tanks typically have caridina shrimp or blackwater species who wont breed in my tap water. All my grow outs get tap water via drip lines on a timer.

Waste water for the auto wc tanks flows out 1/2" bulkheads at the back of all the tanks. This discharges into ABS pipe. This is the black pipe the siphon is dumping water into. The ABS leads to the tote/sump.

 

Edited December 9, 2023 by tolstoy21

[Chris]

On 12/8/2023 at 8:38 PM, tolstoy21 said:

Jut snapped a few pics of my setup . These are meant to show how simple this can all be in theory. 

This first picture shows how small my waste water container is. The sump + float valve keeps up with my usage fine. A bigger waste water container would help if the flow of water into this tote exceeded its ability.  In fact, I had a much large container there but realized that I was only using a small portion of its total capacity, so I downsized in order to squeeze another 10g into the room.

The sump is connected to a simple garden hose that runs up 7 feet and across my basement, about 25", discharging into a slop sink.

This second pics is of a simple DIY siphon hook for use when emptying tanks that are not hooked up to the auto-water-change system. These tanks typically have caridina shrimp or blackwater species who wont breed in my tap water. All my grow outs get tap water via drip lines on a timer.

Waste water for the auto wc tanks flows out 1/2" bulkheads at the back of all the tanks. This discharges into ABS pipe. This is the black pipe the siphon is dumping water into. The ABS leads to the tote/sump.

 

Super simple! Exactly what I was looking for.

Feeling much more confident about setting things up now, after all your replies. Just a matter of waiting for supplies to come in, finding the right PVC connections, and trying to find some more 50% off tanks.

[Chris]

Started installing the drain line tonight. Nothing is cemented in case I want to make changes before I finish the project. The pipe drops 5" over the course of the entire run, which is roughly 18'. Sufficient drop? 

[Chris]

So I'm trying to adapt a 1" bulkhead to a valve to a 90 degree elbow to a flexible hose that I can run into a drain pipe. In theory, I could go straight from the bulkhead, glue the valve, glue the elbow, and have a slip x barb fitting that I can fit the hose onto. But I can't for the life of me find fittings.

There are these that I think would work (assuming I reduced the size of the plumbing to 3/4" after the valve) but $9 a piece seems steep. Searching for the same or similar products on Google isn't coming up with much.

Anybody got a more budget friendly option, or do I just need to suck it up and buy these?

[madmark285]

Not sure if this helps but I did this for a non-pressurized connection:

The hose is for portable water made from PVC, the pipe is 3/4" Sch 40. I just put a bunch of PVC glue inside the pipe and slide the hose thru it. To clean it up, I cut the end off then glued it to the elbow.

The hose is Camco 25ft TastePURE Drinking Water Hose, it is a snug fit inside a 3/4" pipe.

 

 

 

[Chris]

On 12/11/2023 at 4:09 AM, madmark285 said:

Not sure if this helps but I did this for a non-pressurized connection:

The hose is for portable water made from PVC, the pipe is 3/4" Sch 40. I just put a bunch of PVC glue inside the pipe and slide the hose thru it. To clean it up, I cut the end off then glued it to the elbow.

The hose is Camco 25ft TastePURE Drinking Water Hose, it is a snug fit inside a 3/4" pipe.

 

 

 

This may be exactly what I'm looking for!

If I have time I'll stop by the hardware store during work today and pick up some parts to mock up. 

[TOtrees]

I don't have much to add here, all the good info has already been shared. 🙂

I would just share info about the size/capacity of my setup, for your reference/comparison: I have a 40g, 8x 20g, 4x 10g on my water change system. These are filled via emitters (jehmco) that vary from 0.5 to 2gph (some doubled up for 4gph), and I do about 1hr of filling, 3x per week. The emitters vary by bioload and tank size. Assuming the emitters are all correct, I average about 10% change on days with changes, and so 30% per week. All this drains into a 20 gallon tote/bin with a sump in it, controlled by a float switch. Like others, the rate of flow going into the tote is WAY less than the sump's ability to remove it. So I do recommend you keep your pump on the small side, and your bin can be shallow, to allow for servicing the bottom row tanks. 

You also talked about valves on the python. I don't like or trust the ones that are included with the kit. I found that the Gardena hose repair connectors match the python tubing exactly, and they are way stronger. I used to have blowouts while filling when I used the python valve and connectors, but not with the Gardena. For that matter, since you aren't (much) planning on using the python to drain, you can look at other options to fill. I have a tee in my main house water line in my basement fish room. A whole house carbon block filter removes chlorine, and on the output side of the carbon filter one side of a tee goes to my auto fill lines (with an inline hose timer to control when), and the other side of the tee goes to a DIY tap at the side of the main sink. So I can run tap water in the sink via hot/cold taps, or dechlorinated coming out of the carbon block. And I can connect the python tubing to the dechlorinated tap water for filling when I need to do it manually. I also plumbed in a temperature mixing valve option on the input side of the carbon filter, so I can have dechlorinated AND temp matched water to fill with. Not required for the slow emitters, but for bigger fills it helps. The tank end of the python tubing has a DIY cpvc hook, with a valve and spray wand type thing. Though I prefer to control on/off at the sink not at the tank, bc even with the gardena connections I don't like seeing the python tube bulge and strain when I turn the lever at the tank. 

[johnnyxxl]

On 12/11/2023 at 8:47 AM, TOtrees said:

I don't have much to add here, all the good info has already been shared. 🙂

I would just share info about the size/capacity of my setup, for your reference/comparison: I have a 40g, 8x 20g, 4x 10g on my water change system. These are filled via emitters (jehmco) that vary from 0.5 to 2gph (some doubled up for 4gph), and I do about 1hr of filling, 3x per week. The emitters vary by bioload and tank size. Assuming the emitters are all correct, I average about 10% change on days with changes, and so 30% per week. All this drains into a 20 gallon tote/bin with a sump in it, controlled by a float switch. Like others, the rate of flow going into the tote is WAY less than the sump's ability to remove it. So I do recommend you keep your pump on the small side, and your bin can be shallow, to allow for servicing the bottom row tanks. 

You also talked about valves on the python. I don't like or trust the ones that are included with the kit. I found that the Gardena hose repair connectors match the python tubing exactly, and they are way stronger. I used to have blowouts while filling when I used the python valve and connectors, but not with the Gardena. For that matter, since you aren't (much) planning on using the python to drain, you can look at other options to fill. I have a tee in my main house water line in my basement fish room. A whole house carbon block filter removes chlorine, and on the output side of the carbon filter one side of a tee goes to my auto fill lines (with an inline hose timer to control when), and the other side of the tee goes to a DIY tap at the side of the main sink. So I can run tap water in the sink via hot/cold taps, or dechlorinated coming out of the carbon block. And I can connect the python tubing to the dechlorinated tap water for filling when I need to do it manually. I also plumbed in a temperature mixing valve option on the input side of the carbon filter, so I can have dechlorinated AND temp matched water to fill with. Not required for the slow emitters, but for bigger fills it helps. The tank end of the python tubing has a DIY cpvc hook, with a valve and spray wand type thing. Though I prefer to control on/off at the sink not at the tank, bc even with the gardena connections I don't like seeing the python tube bulge and strain when I turn the lever at the tank. 

I would replace the cpvc my house was plumbed with it and it started shattering had to re do my whole house.  I would hate for it to fail when you aren't present.

 

[TOtrees]

On 3/6/2024 at 8:58 AM, johnnyxxl said:

I would replace the cpvc my house was plumbed with it and it started shattering had to re do my whole house.  I would hate for it to fail when you aren't present.

It's just the manual DIY version of a python hook. Only carries water when manually filling a tank, and is only pressurized for a few seconds at a time. There are other parts of the hose/valve/wand assembly that are much more likely to fail than the CPVC itself. But I appreciate the concern and suggestion, thx.