Issues with Fry

[Gliderzz]

Have some fry dying for no obvious reason.

Ammonia: 0ppm

Nitrite: 0ppm

Nitrate: 20ppm

ph = around 8.2

temp = 80-82 f

Two of my biggest fry suddenly developed swim bladder issues, sporadic swimming, labored breathing, & turned pale. Have another fry species sick in a different tank, but these symptoms do not match. Have had a couple fry die a week or two ago, though I assumed they were just too weak since these fry were very small, slow growing & fragile.

Started with one, then became two. Neither are dead but they're pretty close. They've been like this for a good few hours

[jwcarlson]

What are you raising them in (breeder box or regular tank) and what type of fry are they?

[Gliderzz]

10 Gallon Tank - Shallow Water (About 3-4" in height). These are honey gourami fry, about 1.5 months old. Still fairly small (0.5-0.8 ish cm). Diet of vinegar eels, paramecia and occasional live bbs

[jwcarlson]

I'm no expert, but after six weeks I'm not sure vinegar eels and paramecia are going to be enough to sustain them?  Vinegar eels in particular are usually a bridge to get to bigger foods like BBS.  Truthfully, I don't know about honey gourami fry in particular, so take this for what it's worth.

 

How many did you start with and how many are there now?  How many are left?

Edited December 1, 2023 by jwcarlson

[Guppysnail]

I agree 6 weeks starvation may be a huge factor. Usually 1-2 weeks until most fry can eat live brine shrimp. 
 

This video from @Irenemay help. 

 

[Gliderzz]

thanks for the replies! Now that you mention it, the symptoms do remind me of starvation. I've had a couple cory fry not eat before and unfortunately starve. Symptoms were very similar. And yeah, they've been on vinegar eels for a long time at this point. The only slightly contradictory thing is that their bellies do not look empty. They look pretty big & I saw them eating fine just a couple days ago.

As a quick update, both fry have passed, and now a small one is acting the same. Gonna check water params again since the dead fish could've spiked the ammonia

I'll start hatching bbs & try to get some good nutrients into them

[Guppysnail]

On 12/1/2023 at 3:27 PM, Gliderzz said:

thanks for the replies! Now that you mention it, the symptoms do remind me of starvation. I've had a couple cory fry not eat before and unfortunately starve. Symptoms were very similar. And yeah, they've been on vinegar eels for a long time at this point. The only slightly contradictory thing is that their bellies do not look empty. They look pretty big & I saw them eating fine just a couple days ago.

As a quick update, both fry have passed, and now a small one is acting the same. Gonna check water params again since the dead fish could've spiked the ammonia

I'll start hatching bbs & try to get some good nutrients into them

Starvation and malnutrition does not always mean lack of food. It also comes from lack of variety or lack of specific needed elements in the diet. I’m sorry you lost the others. 

[Tlindsey]

On 12/1/2023 at 3:27 PM, Gliderzz said:

thanks for the replies! Now that you mention it, the symptoms do remind me of starvation. I've had a couple cory fry not eat before and unfortunately starve. Symptoms were very similar. And yeah, they've been on vinegar eels for a long time at this point. The only slightly contradictory thing is that their bellies do not look empty. They look pretty big & I saw them eating fine just a couple days ago.

As a quick update, both fry have passed, and now a small one is acting the same. Gonna check water params again since the dead fish could've spiked the ammonia

I'll start hatching bbs & try to get some good nutrients into them

Depending on the specie of fry most of my aquariums has plant's or algae.

This helps because fry will seek out the microorganisms that we can't see lol. Not saying not to feed but a extra food source. I hope you sort everything out with your fry.

[Revaria]

Best of luck with the next batch you get and the last straggler. I personally feed super tiny fry the 5-50 micron golden pearls from brine shrimp direct using a interdental brush for braces if they can't eat bbs when they first hatch. If the lone jar is too big and you want to get quickly use it, you can also mix it up with flake food to feed your other fish.

[Gliderzz]

On 12/1/2023 at 3:34 PM, Guppysnail said:

Starvation and malnutrition does not always mean lack of food. It also comes from lack of variety or lack of specific needed elements in the diet. I’m sorry you lost the others. 

Ahh, okay. That makes complete sense! I'll get some bbs hatching asap Thanks for the advice!

On 12/1/2023 at 7:13 PM, Revaria said:

Best of luck with the next batch you get and the last straggler. I personally feed super tiny fry the 5-50 micron golden pearls from brine shrimp direct using a interdental brush for braces if they can't eat bbs when they first hatch. If the lone jar is too big and you want to get quickly use it, you can also mix it up with flake food to feed your other fish.

I'll definitely look into it! though I don't live in the US so getting ahold of some might be a bit tricky

On 12/1/2023 at 3:39 PM, Tlindsey said:

Depending on the specie of fry most of my aquariums has plant's or algae.

This helps because fry will seek out the microorganisms that we can't see lol. Not saying not to feed but a extra food source. I hope you sort everything out with your fry.

I have some java moss in there luckily. I've noticed it adding it definitely helps with fry development & survival too!

Edited December 2, 2023 by Gliderzz

[Tlindsey]

On 12/1/2023 at 9:03 AM, Guppysnail said:

This video from @Irenemay help. 

Awesome!!!

[Gliderzz]

On 12/1/2023 at 7:13 PM, Revaria said:

Best of luck with the next batch you get and the last straggler. I personally feed super tiny fry the 5-50 micron golden pearls from brine shrimp direct using a interdental brush for braces if they can't eat bbs when they first hatch. If the lone jar is too big and you want to get quickly use it, you can also mix it up with flake food to feed your other fish.

 

On 12/1/2023 at 3:34 PM, Guppysnail said:

Starvation and malnutrition does not always mean lack of food. It also comes from lack of variety or lack of specific needed elements in the diet. I’m sorry you lost the others. 

 

On 12/1/2023 at 8:24 AM, jwcarlson said:

I'm no expert, but after six weeks I'm not sure vinegar eels and paramecia are going to be enough to sustain them?  Vinegar eels in particular are usually a bridge to get to bigger foods like BBS.  Truthfully, I don't know about honey gourami fry in particular, so take this for what it's worth.

 

How many did you start with and how many are there now?  How many are left?

It's been a good few days since I've been feeding the fry bbs and have some great news: I haven't found any more dead fry! Definitely does seem like starvation/malnutrition was the cause, and I'll continue feeding them until they get big enough to take flakes/pellets. Thanks so much!

[Revaria]

Thanks for the update, I'm glad that it worked out.

[jwcarlson]

That's excellent, @Gliderzz!  This forum has helped me tremendously with fry rearing.

[Shrimp Doggy Dogg]

On 12/9/2023 at 1:56 PM, Gliderzz said:

 

 

It's been a good few days since I've been feeding the fry bbs and have some great news: I haven't found any more dead fry! Definitely does seem like starvation/malnutrition was the cause, and I'll continue feeding them until they get big enough to take flakes/pellets. Thanks so much!

In my experience, most small fry will take flake/pellets when crushed to a powder.  The issue then becomes easily fowling the water.

When I feed Cory fry, if I've skipped a bbs cycle, I'll crush flake and drop it into their breeder basket which hangs in the same tank as the adults.  The fry will eat what they can and the adults will feed upsidedown from the bottom of the basket, sucking bits of food through the mesh when they become small enough.