After 25 years need help

[JJ9254]

Tank 120 gallons

nitrate-20ppm 

ammonia nitrate-0

kh-80

gh-200

temp-76

weekly water changes of 25-40%

lomg time lurker, first time reaching out. You guys rock and are very knowledgeable. 
 

I am 25 years a fish keeper so I know some things but always learning. 
 

the tank has been running for 10 years. Last 6 years were Frontosa which got to big and I switched to my first love Tiger barbs. 
 

I added 60. 
6 months of pure joy. 
3 weeks ago I added 5 from a friend. 
no quarantine, total complacency. 
 

2 weeks ago the die off started. 
absolutely no signs of anything. 
this lead me to the conclusion of a bacterial infection. 
I live in Canada so my only option was salt. 
started the salt regiment all the way to 1 tbs per gallon. 
 7 days later (yesterday) all 65 fish are dead. 
 

my question is what do I do now?

do I tear down tank to get rid of what ever it was that killed them all?

Blast with more salt?

I have a great amount of Xmas moss in the tank which I would like to save but I need to make sure everything is good before I invest I my next school of barbs.

all opinions are welcome and appreciated  

thanks  

 

 

[nabokovfan87]

First @JJ9254 Welcome.  I'm excited you took the opportunity to post and hopefully we get to hear more from your experience and your setups!

 

On 11/19/2023 at 7:44 PM, JJ9254 said:

I added 60. 
6 months of pure joy. 
3 weeks ago I added 5 from a friend. 
no quarantine, total complacency. 
 

2 weeks ago the die off started. 
absolutely no signs of anything. 
this lead me to the conclusion of a bacterial infection. 
I live in Canada so my only option was salt. 
started the salt regiment all the way to 1 tbs per gallon. 
 7 days later (yesterday) all 65 fish are dead. 

I think this might just be similar to what a lot of discus keepers go through.  They recommend using a QT tank and "testing" if you can mix the two sources.  Essentially, you have to give it time when introducing anything to an established tank because you just have no real idea what will happen.  That being said, unfortunately, the answer here is really just time and quarantine.  Once the "new" fish are used to your water, your care, then add them to the display.  I only say this for an established display because it's been up and running for a long time. 

Once you have the new fish in your care for weeks, preferably a month, then maybe you take one from the tank and add it to the QT and run it for another ~14 days.  Without having meds, a microscope, and the ability to really dive into diagnosing parasites or illnesses, it's really tough to know exactly what to do. 

As far as what to do next, you can pull the plants and "QT" them in a bucket or tote for as long as you feel necessary for any fish pathogens to die off.  You can dip the plants or treat them in something like Alum.  You can reset the tank, sterilize things, and restart your cycle, but I'm not sure what you wish to do.  In time the pathogens should die off without a necessary host.  You can deep clean the tank, remove gunk, and "reset" things as you need to and go from that point without using harsh chemicals or anything, and start slowly with a small trio or something to verify that the tank is acceptable for fish at that point.
 

On 11/19/2023 at 7:44 PM, JJ9254 said:

Tank 120 gallons

nitrate-20ppm 

ammonia nitrate-0

kh-80

gh-200

temp-76

weekly water changes of 25-40%

All of this looks good.

First @JJ9254 Welcome.  I'm excited you took the opportunity to post and hopefully we get to hear more from your experience and your setups!

 

On 11/19/2023 at 7:44 PM, JJ9254 said:

I added 60. 
6 months of pure joy. 
3 weeks ago I added 5 from a friend. 
no quarantine, total complacency. 
 

2 weeks ago the die off started. 
absolutely no signs of anything. 
this lead me to the conclusion of a bacterial infection. 
I live in Canada so my only option was salt. 
started the salt regiment all the way to 1 tbs per gallon. 
 7 days later (yesterday) all 65 fish are dead. 

I think this might just be similar to what a lot of discus keepers go through.  They recommend using a QT tank and "testing" if you can mix the two sources.  Essentially, you have to give it time when introducing anything to an established tank because you just have no real idea what will happen.  That being said, unfortunately, the answer here is really just time and quarantine.  Once the "new" fish are used to your water, your care, then add them to the display.  I only say this for an established display because it's been up and running for a long time. 

Once you have the new fish in your care for weeks, preferably a month, then maybe you take one from the tank and add it to the QT and run it for another ~14 days.  Without having meds, a microscope, and the ability to really dive into diagnosing parasites or illnesses, it's really tough to know exactly what to do. 

As far as what to do next, you can pull the plants and "QT" them in a bucket or tote for as long as you feel necessary for any fish pathogens to die off.  You can dip the plants or treat them in something like Alum.  You can reset the tank, sterilize things, and restart your cycle, but I'm not sure what you wish to do.  In time the pathogens should die off without a necessary host.  You can deep clean the tank, remove gunk, and "reset" things as you need to and go from that point without using harsh chemicals or anything, and start slowly with a small trio or something to verify that the tank is acceptable for fish at that point.
 

On 11/19/2023 at 7:44 PM, JJ9254 said:

Tank 120 gallons

nitrate-20ppm 

ammonia nitrate-0

kh-80

gh-200

temp-76

weekly water changes of 25-40%

All of this looks good.

@Odd Duck, @Colu how would you handle an established tank with a severe contamination (virus, bacteria, or parasite)?

[Odd Duck]

I’m so sorry for your loss.  I would be incredibly bummed and have tanks melt down and total loss before.  It’s awful!

If those were the only fish, I would drain the tank as low as possible.  Pull all plants and soak in seltzer water for 3 hours (look into Reverse Respiration).  Then I would spray the inside of the tank and everything non-living with straight 3% peroxide.  I would clean out the filter, discard the biofiltration, and disinfect the filter itself with peroxide and essentially start over.

If there are live shrimp, snails, fish, anything in the tank, I would instead try to bolster the immune system by using beneficial bacteria, like FritzZyme 7, as much as you can afford at the highest dose on the label.  There are some that use bottled bacteria at an even higher rate, but you should add extra aeration any time you dose BB’s, especially if you add high dose.  A few of us have been fiddling with some testing and I have converted to being a believer in some brands with FritzZyme 7 being one of them.

Don’t lose heart, it will get better!

[Scapexghost]

Brutal. But hopefully some newbees see this, since it show this can happen to even the most experienced fish keepers. I mean, there is nothing I have 25 years experience in. But, i would just give it time. Whatever killed the barbs will die without them. 2-4 weeks should be good, but of course add fish gradually to be safe.

[Guppysnail]

I’m so sorry this happened to you. 
Saving your plants like @Odd Duck recommended with seltzer is the best way. Here is an article explaining the process. 

 

[JJ9254]

Thanks for all the great responses. 
what was a quick fix prior to 2018 here in Canada now becomes a disaster because we are no longer able to get fish meds. 
 

there are no longer any inhabitants in the tank as it was only the tiger barbs. 
I will keep the tank going and feed the nitrifying bacteria for the next few weeks and add a few test fish after to see what happens. 
 

unfortunately I think this will have to end in odd ducks suggestion. 
Good project for the up coming holidays in December 

thanks fish people. 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

I am so so very sorry for your losses.  I agree with what @Odd Duck suggested for the seltzer (plants) and 3% peroxide (tank, substrate, equipment).

Welcome to the forum also.  Glad you are here, and we will help you however we can.

[Guest]

@JJ9254, First of all, Welcome! But to get down into the nitty gritty of this situation, a whole 65 fish at once seems CRAZY BRUTAL, whatever type of pestilence is plaguing your tank probably as @Scapexghost said, it might die off without them but to be sure you kill your problem for good, try out what everybody else like @Odd Duck is saying. I would say after youv'e done that, try adding some 'test' fish gradually and see if everything is stable. If they flatline the next day or soon after you introduce them, i'd say double check your params and research to see what it could be and how to kill off the disease or parasite. Or if its something in the water, again, drain it SUPER low. Hopefully I helped and I wish you the best of luck!

[JJ9254]

Just an update….

i did the peroxide route. I saved 25% of my bio media to save the grief of going through a cycle. 
 

I left the tank with no inhabitants…easy as the all died, for a week. 
 

I have added some calico pattys (8) and they are doing fine. 
 

unfortunately I lost all my plants from the salt blast that I did. 
 

thanks for the help fish people. I never would have tried the peroxide. 
 

side note as I think this is more relevant then ever in Canada due to our lack of access to fish meds….10 gallon quarantine tank is up and running. lol. 

[jwcarlson]

How many had died before you went so hard on the salt?

[JJ9254]

About 10 tiger barbs. 
2 weeks later all 65 were dead. Sucks. 

I think it was a nasty bacterial infection