Expel-P = Planaria Party?

[PineSong]

My 20g long has had planaria for quite some time without them becoming a problem. Every couple of months if I'm there when the tank lights first come on in the morning I will see one or maybe two, but even at that time of day, 99% of the time I see none. A couple of times I began scoping out the tank before the lights came on to see if there were bunches, and I still saw none. So I wasn't caring about them.

Yesterday afternoon I treated the tank with Expel-P for an unrelated reason. This morning I woke up late and the tank lights were already on and had been for at least half an hour when I went in there. There were probably about 15 visible planaria on the glass. 

I just got home from work, there are still several visible.

I'm not worrying about them becoming too numerous, I'm just curious about the connection between the Expel-P and this behavior. Has anyone else noticed a correlation between this medication and a sudden change in whether planaria stay exposed?

[Schuyler]

I wonder if they're being having a reaction to the expel p that's just making them come out of their hiding. Maybe they're seeking more oxygenated water (like vinegar eels when the culture starts to crash)

Edited October 15, 2023 by Schuyler

[PineSong]

On 10/13/2023 at 6:34 PM, Schuyler said:

I wonder if they're being having a reaction to the expel p that's just nagging them come out of their hiding. Maybe they're seeking more oxygenated water (like vinegar eels when the culture starts to crash)

This makes sense because they were all on the back glass mostly around the airstone.

[nabokovfan87]

@Chick-In-Of-TheSea has used no planaria.  I would suggest that for your case.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

I have used No Planaria on shrimp successfully to rid them of flatworms. It is absolutely not snail safe so be sure to remove your snail friends. Run carbon after treatment. (Note: prior to that I used PraziPro which did NOT work)

Edited October 14, 2023 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[Ninjoma]

I haven't noticed much of difference in behavior when  using Expel p on planaria and it also doesn't seem to kill them in my experience. 

[PineSong]

On 10/14/2023 at 12:43 AM, Ninjoma said:

I haven't noticed much of difference in behavior when  using Expel p on planaria and it also doesn't seem to kill them in my experience. 

Mine are not dead, either. Unless their population grows out of hand I will not take steps to eliminate them. I do have No Planaria on hand and can use it if I need to, but I am not sure a few planaria are harmful? My shrimp population in that tank is doing better than ever--they are yellow shrimp and many of them are big lumbering tanks.

[nabokovfan87]

On 10/14/2023 at 7:44 AM, PineSong said:

I do have No Planaria on hand and can use it if I need to, but I am not sure a few planaria are harmful?

 

[PineSong]

On 10/14/2023 at 1:04 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

 

Ohhhhkay, then. I am glad I have the No Planaria on hand. Argh. I hate to kill things but I would rather kill the planaria than have my shrimp preyed upon while they are still alive. Nightmare critters!

[PineSong]

On 10/13/2023 at 8:31 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

I have used No Planaria on shrimp successfully to rid them of flatworms. It is absolutely not snail safe so be sure to remove your snail friends. Run carbon after treatment. (Note: prior to that I used PraziPro which did NOT work)

Other than the instructions on the package for No Planaria, and running carbon after, any other tips? IDK what to do about all the ramshorn and bladder snails. It seems like from Chris' video that planaria could be in their shells, too?

 

[nabokovfan87]

On 10/14/2023 at 11:10 AM, PineSong said:

Other than the instructions on the package for No Planaria, and running carbon after, any other tips? IDK what to do about all the ramshorn and bladder snails. It seems like from Chris' video that planaria could be in their shells, too?

Yeah exactly. And because it's not really a highly researched medication, but a botanical, it's a bit of an unknown what will and won't be taken out by the product.

I would recommend sending a DM to @Chick-In-Of-TheSeaand going through the method and experience used.  There was a bit of a back and forth and lessons learned from treatment. She was talking with Marks shrimp tanks as well about some of the dosing as well.

https://aquariumshrimpkeeping.com/how-to-get-rid-of-planaria-and-hydra-with-no-planaria/

 

One major caveat I will say is that each line of shrimp is unique and different. Each color from the same breeder even, can have different genetic strengths.

If you have some that seem to be like mine.... A big water change won't necessarily be a major issue. I get into trouble when it's a lot of water changes back to back or too often. I have heard of others who are very much petrified to change water or even change more than 10% at a time.

A good balance from my experience is that 30-50% range. Run the meds, water change preferably dripping it back in, and then run carbon for two weeks. Use a HoB if you can for this with a protected/covered intake to keep shrimp out. (Think marina slim, aqueon quietflow, or even a tidal 35 wrapped to the hills in stocking mesh). Fluval spec sells very fine prefilter sponges.  After about 14 days. Repeat meds or repeat your water change and swap out the carbon.  That is how I would handle it with my colony.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 10/14/2023 at 3:39 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

She was talking with Marks shrimp tanks as well about some of the dosing as well.

https://aquariumshrimpkeeping.com/how-to-get-rid-of-planaria-and-hydra-with-no-planaria/

I used the instructions on this site to do the treatment.

[Odd Duck]

Make very certain that you do multiple water changes before you put snails back in and be prepared to do a potentially sacrificial snail to see if the No Planaria is cleared enough to put multiple snails back in.  I’ve read that nerites are particularly sensitive to it.  I’ve also read that the effects can linger for weeks.  So when you think the med is clear, do a couple more water changes, then try a single snail of each species.  If all is OK, try a few more snails.  I can tell you with certainty that it kills bladders, ramshorns, nerites (I missed one in a tank), and MTS.  So presumably also chopstick snails or any others in that family.  I’ve read it kills mysteries so I would remove any apple snail species just to be safe.

Quite frankly, since it kills MTS, I would assume it can kill any species of snail.  It does do a good job killing planaria and likely most any other flatworm species.  Just be very cautious before you add a bunch of snails back into that system.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 10/14/2023 at 6:27 PM, Odd Duck said:

Make very certain that you do multiple water changes before you put snails back in and be prepared to do a potentially sacrificial snail to see if the No Planaria is cleared enough to put multiple snails back in.  I’ve read that nerites are particularly sensitive to it.  I’ve also read that the effects can linger for weeks.  So when you think the med is clear, do a couple more water changes, then try a single snail of each species.  If all is OK, try a few more snails.  I can tell you with certainty that it kills bladders, ramshorns, nerites (I missed one in a tank), and MTS.  So presumably also chopstick snails or any others in that family.  I’ve read it kills mysteries so I would remove any apple snail species just to be safe.

Quite frankly, since it kills MTS, I would assume it can kill any species of snail.  It does do a good job killing planaria and likely most any other flatworm species.  Just be very cautious before you add a bunch of snails back into that system.

I never put snails back after No Planaria because of this. I have been afraid to because you never really know. However, the tanks I treated now have bunch of limpets that have appeared and seem to be doing well. I assume they may have come from the bacter ae I add to these tanks. Or from playing musical plants. Not sure.

During treatment some MTS emerged from substrate. I removed them ASAP and they were ok.

And every now and then I will still see one in that tank. Idk how. I did run the carbon for at least a week, I think. And siphoned the sand once or twice. Hard to do because of shrimplets.

Edited October 15, 2023 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[Odd Duck]

On 10/14/2023 at 8:47 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

I never put snails back after No Planaria because of this. I have been afraid to because you never really know. However, the tanks I treated now have bunch of limpets that have appeared and seem to be doing well. I assume they may have come from the bacter ae I add to these tanks. Or from playing musical plants. Not sure.

During treatment some MTS emerged from substrate. I removed them ASAP and they were ok.

And every now and then I will still see one in that tank. Idk how. I did run the carbon for at least a week, I think. And siphoned the sand once or twice. Hard to do because of shrimplets.

If limpets are back you should be fine with any snails by now.  If you have any pest snails, you can test with one.  If it’s alive after a week, you should be fine for any snails in there.  If MTS are n]back and growing, you really should be fine for any snails in that tank now.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 10/14/2023 at 11:38 PM, Odd Duck said:

If limpets are back you should be fine with any snails by now.  If you have any pest snails, you can test with one.  If it’s alive after a week, you should be fine for any snails in there.  If MTS are n]back and growing, you really should be fine for any snails in that tank now.

Thanks. My treatment was in late July/early August so it has been a minute. 🙂

[JChristophersAdventures]

Never had planaria in my earlier fish keeping days. What's the major culprit(s) for causing this? Are they introduced by hitchhiking on fish... snails... plants? Or, by some other means? Thanks.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 10/15/2023 at 10:53 AM, JChristophersAdventures said:

Never had planaria in my earlier fish keeping days. What's the major culprit(s) for causing this? Are they introduced by hitchhiking on fish... snails... plants? Or, by some other means? Thanks.

Mainly they come in on plants.

[nabokovfan87]

On 10/15/2023 at 7:53 AM, JChristophersAdventures said:

Never had planaria in my earlier fish keeping days. What's the major culprit(s) for causing this? Are they introduced by hitchhiking on fish... snails... plants? Or, by some other means? Thanks.

Overfeeding and leaving uneaten food in the tanks. For whatever reason they show up but they thrive due to basically not siphoning or not maintaining things like filtration.

[PineSong]

On 10/15/2023 at 6:33 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Overfeeding and leaving uneaten food in the tanks. For whatever reason they show up but they thrive due to basically not siphoning or not maintaining things like filtration.

My tank is heavily planted and also has shrimp so I rarely siphon or disturb the substrate. I do change water. My fish are small even for guppies so probably leftover food is thing maintaining the planaria however they arrived 😞 

I have not done the treatment yet because I wanted to make sure I'd be home for the next couple of days after doing it to make sure everything was okay and I had to be away from home until yesterday. I think I will do it this Friday and will report back after that.

[Jennifer V]

Uhg! I just used Expel-P to try to get rid of the planaria in my tank and sadly, it didn't work and I'm now seeing more than ever, so I suppose I'm in a similar boat. My tank has about a million bladder and ramshorn snails in it for my pea puffers so I can't use other meds. I do have a glass traps to catch the planaria. Am I doomed to dealing with them forever now? 

[nabokovfan87]

On 10/23/2023 at 11:13 PM, Jennifer V said:

I do have a glass traps to catch the planaria. Am I doomed to dealing with them forever now? 

There are some fish that may eat them, but traps constantly will be your best bet then.

Unfortunately they are very resilient and difficult to get rid of when you have snails in there as well.

[Jennifer V]

On 10/24/2023 at 2:41 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

There are some fish that may eat them, but traps constantly will be your best bet then.

Unfortunately they are very resilient and difficult to get rid of when you have snails in there as well.

This is so frustrating! I bought plants from what I thought was a reputable source and boom, planaria. I haven't seen a decline in shrimp or snails, but it's still really bothersome. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 10/24/2023 at 4:26 PM, Jennifer V said:

This is so frustrating! I bought plants from what I thought was a reputable source and boom, planaria. I haven't seen a decline in shrimp or snails, but it's still really bothersome. 

I've learned about leeches make their way into tanks today via snails.  I cannot imagine seeing it and @Chick-In-Of-TheSea can attest to how much I don't enjoy the worms in my tank.  That being said, you can try pulling snails to a tub or QT or something and allow you to use the no planaria on the tank itself.  It might take a long weekend of pulling snails or it might result in some losses, but I hope that in some way you're able to resolve it!

[Jennifer V]

On 10/25/2023 at 12:06 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

I've learned about leeches make their way into tanks today via snails.  I cannot imagine seeing it and @Chick-In-Of-TheSea can attest to how much I don't enjoy the worms in my tank.  That being said, you can try pulling snails to a tub or QT or something and allow you to use the no planaria on the tank itself.  It might take a long weekend of pulling snails or it might result in some losses, but I hope that in some way you're able to resolve it!

Thank you! I might just try that. Ramshorn and bladder snails are so easy, I'm sure they would be fine in a tub for a day or two.