Dwarf Flag Cichlid swimming on its side Please Help!!

[Tropicalfishkeeping201]

Hello guys, 

I really need your help. I have a dwarf flag Cichlid that is swimming on its side. Yesterday, he was fine, showed no signs of illness and he ate flake food that I feed them yesterday but today when I went to check the tank, he was laying on its side and he swims a little but on its side. All my other fish are fine, no signs of disease, its just this fish. There is no aggression in this tank, I have platys, young mollies, two plecos, and this dwarf flag Cichlid. Also there was no Ammonia or Nitrite when I checked it yesterday.

Yesterday I did a 30% water change and today a 60% water change.

These were the water parameters using the Freshwater Test Kit before doing a 60% water change today:

• Ammonia: 0 ppm
• Nitrate: 40 or 80 ppm but looked more like 40 ppm
• Nitrite: 0 ppm
• pH: 6.6 

 

Here are two videos of my ill fish:

•  

 

Please help @Colu, @nabokovfan87, @Odd Duck

How can I help my fish recover? Thank you in advance

Edited October 9, 2023 by Tropicalfishkeeping201

[Colu]

On 10/9/2023 at 3:05 AM, Tropicalfishkeeping201 said:

Hello guys, 

I really need your help. I have a dwarf flag Cichlid that is swimming on its side. Yesterday, he was fine, showed no signs of illness and he ate flake food that I feed them yesterday but today when I went to check the tank, he was laying on its side and he swims a little but on its side. All my other fish are fine, no signs of disease, its just this fish. There is no aggression in this tank and there was no Ammonia when I checked it yesterday.

Yesterday I did a 30% water change and today a 60% water change.

These were the water parameters before doing a 60% water change today:

• Ammonia: 0 ppm
• Nitrate: 40 or 80 ppm but looked more like 40 ppm
• Nitrite: 0 ppm
• pH: 6.6 

 

Here are two videos of my ill fish:

•  

 

Please help @Colu, @nabokovfan87, @Odd Duck

Thank you in advance

High levels of nitrates can affect the swim bladder and immune system it's possible they were closer to 80ppm  or it's swim into something in the tank and suffered an injury what I would do is quarantine lower the water level so it easier for it to right itself add an extra air stone and add some aquarium salt 1 table spoon for 3 gallons and monitor  what I would do if your constantly getting high nitrates is add quick growing plants such as hornwort Elodea or floating plants such as water lettuce Amazonian frogbit red root floaters to help lower your Nitrates and do more frequent water changes 

[Tropicalfishkeeping201]

On 10/8/2023 at 7:17 PM, Colu said:

High levels of nitrates can affect the swim bladder and immune system it's possible they were closer to 80ppm  or it's swim into something in the tank and suffered an injury what I would do is quarantine lower the water level so it easier for it to right itself add an extra air stone and add some aquarium salt 1 table spoon for 3 gallons and monitor  what I would do if your constantly getting high nitrates is add quick growing plants such as hornwort Elodea or floating plants such as water lettuce Amazonian frogbit red root floaters to help lower your Nitrates and do more frequent water changes 

Thank you!! @Colu I'm going to do this but at the moment I don't have a separate tank, can I add this salt into my tank?

Also Just to make sure, Do plecos tolerate salt?

 

Edited October 9, 2023 by Tropicalfishkeeping201

[Colu]

On 10/9/2023 at 3:22 AM, Tropicalfishkeeping201 said:

Thank you!! @Colu I'm going to do this 

Just to make sure, Do plecos tolerate salt?

 

One table spoon for 3 gallons is fine I have used that level of salt with my bristlenose plecos with no issues just make sure you dissolve the salt in a jug of warm water then add it to the tank 

[nabokovfan87]

Based on the way the fish is curved I would think maybe it was injured and ran into something. 

[Tropicalfishkeeping201]

On 10/8/2023 at 10:27 PM, Colu said:

One table spoon for 3 gallons is fine I have used that level of salt with my bristlenose plecos with no issues just make sure you dissolve the salt in a jug of warm water then add it to the tank 

Thank you very much @Colu, I really appreciate it, I really hope he recovers

[Tropicalfishkeeping201]

On 10/8/2023 at 11:15 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Based on the way the fish is curved I would think maybe it was injured and ran into something. 

Thank you for replying, @nabokovfan87 I’ve been upset all day not knowing what happened to him and what to do, thinking what did I do wrong. I was even thinking that even though I really love this hobby, that it was best for me to just leave it because I feel I’m not a good fish keeper because I’ve lost fish from the short time I’ve been in this hobby and its just been very discouraging. I’ve been really into this hobby, watching Aquarium Co Op and other YouTubers, always interested to learn to make sure I can create an environment for them to thrive but I felt very discouraged today seeing my first Cichlid like that and remembering all the fish I’ve lost 😔
 

Yeah it’s really weird because it was fine yesterday, he ate and everything and all of a sudden today when I went to look at the tank, he was like that.
 

From the time I’ve had him, he has never showed any symptoms until today 😔 

At first I thought it was Fish TB but is that he hasn’t shown any signs of disease until today. 

Do you think he will recover? 

Edited October 10, 2023 by Tropicalfishkeeping201

[nabokovfan87]

On 10/8/2023 at 9:44 PM, Tropicalfishkeeping201 said:

Thank you for replying, @nabokovfan87 I’ve been upset all day not knowing what happened to him and what to do, thinking what did I do wrong. I was even thinking that even though I really love this hobby, that it was best for me to just leave it because I feel I’m not a good fish keeper because but I’ve lost fish from the short time I’ve been in this hobby and its just been very discouraging. I’ve been really into this hobby, watching Aquarium Co Op and other YouTubers, always interested to learn to make sure I can create an environment for them to thrive but I felt very discouraged today seeing my first Cichlid like that and remembering all the fish I’ve lost 😔
 

Yeah it’s really weird because it was fine yesterday, he ate and everything and all of a sudden today when I went to look at the tank, he was like that.
 

From the time I’ve had him, he has never showed any symptoms until today 😔 

At first I thought it was Fish TB but is that he hasn’t shown any signs of disease until today. 

Do you think he will recover? 

Honestly, and this is something I hope you take to heart, things happen beyond our control.  All we can do is process it, try to understand it, and try to learn from it.  Sometimes it's an accident.  Some fish can be skiddish.  The noise of a door opening in my tank usually sends the fish darting.  That might cause one of them to jump up.  There are always going to be some things beyond your control.  These are animals and they are not something we can simply control in the sense of training or other things. Sometimes their wild nature and natural instincts come out.  Maybe that is what happened and the fish darted and bumped into something.

If the fish is able to recover, it will and the advice above is great for getting the fish on that path.  That being said, you might be dealing with permanent damage and it might not be something where the fish recovers.  Keep an eye on the tank and let us know.  Chin up, stay strong.  Take a breath.... you didn't do anything incorrect, things just happen sometimes.

[Tropicalfishkeeping201]

On 10/9/2023 at 2:28 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

Honestly, and this is something I hope you take to heart, things happen beyond our control.  All we can do is process it, try to understand it, and try to learn from it.  Sometimes it's an accident.  Some fish can be skiddish.  The noise of a door opening in my tank usually sends the fish darting.  That might cause one of them to jump up.  There are always going to be some things beyond your control.  These are animals and they are not something we can simply control in the sense of training or other things. Sometimes their wild nature and natural instincts come out.  Maybe that is what happened and the fish darted and bumped into something.

If the fish is able to recover, it will and the advice above is great for getting the fish on that path.  That being said, you might be dealing with permanent damage and it might not be something where the fish recovers.  Keep an eye on the tank and let us know.  Chin up, stay strong.  Take a breath.... you didn't do anything incorrect, things just happen sometimes.

Thank you for your words of encouragement, I really needed it. Hopefully he recovers, I will keep you guys posted, Thanks again 🙂 

[Odd Duck]

I would also guess this is an injury since he is bent to the left no matter which direction he is swimming.  I have had fish that recovered quite well from injuries like this and others that didn’t.  It usually happens when fish get startled for whatever reason, because, well, fish.  🤷🏻‍♀️ It’s impossible to prevent every possible reason why fish might get injured.  They can be unfortunately quite creative in unexpected ways, sometimes to their detriment.  It is an unfortunate part of fishkeeping that sometimes you will lose fish.  It’s nearly impossibly to tell how old a fish is when you get it.  Smaller than adult size fish are usually young, but could also be stunted and have organ damage from poor care.  There is no way to be 100% certain that you have young, strong, healthy fish when you get them.  This can lead to premature deaths even if you’ve done everything right.  Some fish just don’t live a long time either.  2-3 years is fairly common for many small tetras and rasboras for instance.  If acquired as adults, they could already be 3 when you get them and in the end stages of their life.

As long as you learn from your experiences and do your best to prevent bad things from happening, then you can’t blame yourself for fish deaths.  I would follow @Colu’s advice to the letter because it’s right on point.  If you’re worried about the salt levels start at 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons and see how everybody reacts.  If all OK, then gradually increase the concentration to 1 tablespoon per 3 gallons since the goal with salt treatment at this dose is to pull out any swelling in the tissues.

Good luck with your fish and keep us updated.

[Tropicalfishkeeping201]

On 10/10/2023 at 5:22 AM, Odd Duck said:

I would also guess this is an injury since he is bent to the left no matter which direction he is swimming.  I have had fish that recovered quite well from injuries like this and others that didn’t.  It usually happens when fish get startled for whatever reason, because, well, fish.  🤷🏻‍♀️ It’s impossible to prevent every possible reason why fish might get injured.  They can be unfortunately quite creative in unexpected ways, sometimes to their detriment.  It is an unfortunate part of fishkeeping that sometimes you will lose fish.  It’s nearly impossibly to tell how old a fish is when you get it.  Smaller than adult size fish are usually young, but could also be stunted and have organ damage from poor care.  There is no way to be 100% certain that you have young, strong, healthy fish when you get them.  This can lead to premature deaths even if you’ve done everything right.  Some fish just don’t live a long time either.  2-3 years is fairly common for many small tetras and rasboras for instance.  If acquired as adults, they could already be 3 when you get them and in the end stages of their life.

As long as you learn from your experiences and do your best to prevent bad things from happening, then you can’t blame yourself for fish deaths.  I would follow @Colu’s advice to the letter because it’s right on point.  If you’re worried about the salt levels start at 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons and see how everybody reacts.  If all OK, then gradually increase the concentration to 1 tablespoon per 3 gallons since the goal with salt treatment at this dose is to pull out any swelling in the tissues.

Good luck with your fish and keep us updated.

Thank you very much @Odd Duck, you guys are definitely right, some things are just out of our control and all we can do at this point is to do all that we can to try to help them recover and learn from these experiences. He does get scared easily so you guys are right, it must be an injury. The little guys seems a little bit better, he does swim a little just not in an upright position so I feel there is some hope for him. 

Thanks you guys, I really appreciate your words of encouragement and your help and I will keep you guys posted 🙂

Edited October 10, 2023 by Tropicalfishkeeping201

[Tropicalfishkeeping201]

Hello @Colu, @nabokovfan87, and @Odd Duck 

I hope you guys have been doing well  

Here is an update:

I’ve been doing the treatment but he doesn’t seem to be getting any better. Now He can’t swim at all and hasn’t been eating 😔 He looks paralyzed. I feel very bad for him because he looks like he’s suffering, it makes me very upset to see him like that. I’m still doing all that I can but I don’t think he’s going to make it 💔 

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Tropicalfishkeeping201

[nabokovfan87]

I'm very sorry @Tropicalfishkeeping201

[Colu]

On 10/15/2023 at 11:26 PM, Tropicalfishkeeping201 said:

Hello @Colu, @nabokovfan87, and @Odd Duck 

I hope you guys have been doing well  

Here is the update:

I’ve been doing the treatment but he doesn’t seem to be getting any better. Now He can’t swim at all and hasn’t been eating 😔 He looks paralyzed. I feel very bad for him because he looks like he’s suffering, it makes me very upset to see him like that. I’m still doing all that I can but I don’t think he’s going to make it 💔 

 

Sorry to hear this he could have some spinal injury due an impact  if that the case the chance of recovery are  small if you think his quality of life isn't good and your not seeing any improvement I would consider humanely euthanize him with clove oil 

[Tropicalfishkeeping201]

On 10/15/2023 at 7:06 PM, Colu said:

Sorry to hear this he could have some spinal injury due an impact  if that the case the chance of recovery are  small if you think his quality of life isn't good and your not seeing any improvement I would consider humanely euthanize him with clove oil 

Thank you @Colu, I’m going to consider doing this because he hasn’t improved and he seems like he’s suffering. Thank you @Colu and @nabokovfan87 for your help and words of encouragement, it really means a lot. You guys are the best

[Odd Duck]

I’m sorry you’re faced with such a difficult decision.

Mixing the clove oil into a small amount of alcohol lets it mix into the water more effectively.  Here is my recommendation with doses.

Euthanasia solution with clove oil:

For 100 mg/mL stock solution mix 1 part clove oil with 9 parts of 95% ethanol (Everclear, 190 proof), (in the USA, over-the-counter clove oil is ~1 g eugenol/ml clove oil).  Then mix to 40-120 mg/L bath - around 1 ml/L to make it simple.  You can add the clove oil solution gradually to transition the fish into sleep more gently.

Example: 0.1 mls clove oil into 0.9 mls Everclear (190 proof ethyl alcohol) = 1 ml stock solution to add to 1 liter of tank water (per quart is close enough).  For larger fish, 1 mls of clove oil into 9 mls alcohol for 10 liters of tank water (2.6 gallons).  For a 10 gallon tank, you will need 4 mls clove oil into 36 mls alcohol.

The alcohol is what lets the eugenol (the active ingredient) dissolve into the water.  Otherwise the clove oil just floats on the water surface and may not be effective.  Keep the fish in the clove oil mixture until at least 20 minutes past any gill movement, then remove the fish from the water, place in a plastic bag with as minimal air as possible, then freeze as quickly as possible for a full 24 hours or more before disposal.

[Tropicalfishkeeping201]

On 10/16/2023 at 9:12 AM, Odd Duck said:

I’m sorry you’re faced with such a difficult decision.

Mixing the clove oil into a small amount of alcohol lets it mix into the water more effectively.  Here is my recommendation with doses.

Euthanasia solution with clove oil:

For 100 mg/mL stock solution mix 1 part clove oil with 9 parts of 95% ethanol (Everclear, 190 proof), (in the USA, over-the-counter clove oil is ~1 g eugenol/ml clove oil).  Then mix to 40-120 mg/L bath - around 1 ml/L to make it simple.  You can add the clove oil solution gradually to transition the fish into sleep more gently.

Example: 0.1 mls clove oil into 0.9 mls Everclear (190 proof ethyl alcohol) = 1 ml stock solution to add to 1 liter of tank water (per quart is close enough).  For larger fish, 1 mls of clove oil into 9 mls alcohol for 10 liters of tank water (2.6 gallons).  For a 10 gallon tank, you will need 4 mls clove oil into 36 mls alcohol.

The alcohol is what lets the eugenol (the active ingredient) dissolve into the water.  Otherwise the clove oil just floats on the water surface and may not be effective.  Keep the fish in the clove oil mixture until at least 20 minutes past any gill movement, then remove the fish from the water, place in a plastic bag with as minimal air as possible, then freeze as quickly as possible for a full 24 hours or more before disposal.

Thank you so much @Odd Duck for all your help and for also being here for me in this difficult moment. I know people might say its just a fish but to us fishkeepers, they are more than that. I'm going to go purchase the clove oil so that the poor little guy no longer suffers, again, thank you and really appreciate all your help @Odd Duck, @Colu, and @nabokovfan87. It really means a lot

Edited October 16, 2023 by Tropicalfishkeeping201