Dying cherry shrimp - I’m doing something wrong

[Seanwoodey]

So I really need help with my neocardina shrimp. I’ve been trying to keep them for about 9 months and it always ends in disaster. In my latest attempt I bought 12 mixed cherry shrimp. I’ve added a sponge filter, Java moss, I feed quality foods and have aquarium plants. There’s also mystery snails and danio in the tank as well as 2 glass shrimp. 4 weeks in, I’m starting to see dead shrimp again, also I very rarely see any shrimp. After testing water all is fine but my ph is quite high! I’m about to give up

[FLFishChik]

When you say your ph is quite high, how high is it? Neocaridina can do well in ph from 6.5 - 8.0 

also, have you tested your kH and gH?

 

[DallasCowboys16]

My first thought would be that your GH might be bottoming out. In my experience that is the most common silent killer in shrimp tanks that can't keep them alive for an extended period of time.

It also seems like you've got quite a bit of mulm in your tank. Generally that isn't an issue with shrimp, but perhaps you have elevated nitrates as a result?

A water test with GH, PH, and Nitrates would be helpful.

[Ben P.]

Are your snails or glass shrimp having any issues? An odd thought is that some fertilizers, water conditioners, medications, ect. Contain copper.  Copper is toxic to inverts but maybe the levels are just high enough to effect the neo shrimp? I honestly don't know if there's a way to test for it but as I said some water additives and such do contain it.  Don't go crazy thinking this is the answer, just if you're adding things to your water, check the label.

[Seanwoodey]

Thanks everyone for taking the time to reply. My PH is around 8 but I haven’t tested KH or GH. How do I do this? And if it’s the wrong level how do I change it?

my snails and glass shrimp seem to be fine, I don’t really add any fertiliser or conditioner. Also nitrates are low/non existent, I test every week.

what is mulm and should I be concerned?

on a positive note I briefly saw a berried red shrimp in the tank, not for long however as it disappeared off with the rest of the shrimp (I hope)

[Tanked]

On 9/25/2023 at 2:33 AM, Seanwoodey said:

Thanks everyone for taking the time to reply. My PH is around 8 but I haven’t tested KH or GH. How do I do this? And if it’s the wrong level how do I change it?

my snails and glass shrimp seem to be fine, I don’t really add any fertiliser or conditioner. Also nitrates are low/non existent, I test every week.

what is mulm and should I be concerned?

on a positive note I briefly saw a berried red shrimp in the tank, not for long however as it disappeared off with the rest of the shrimp (I hope)

You can buy multi-test strips to test for nitrIte, NitrAte, gh, kh, chlorine, and ph.   You can also buy a master test kit.  You said the ph is 8.  How did you test that?

Mulm is: decomposing everything.  fish poop, fish, plant debris...  It is likley what is feeding your plants. It is not harmful unless there are  huge amounts built up in the substrates. Shrimp do eat some of it.  A lot of mulm collected on top of the substrate in addition to being unsightly, can be stirred up by foraging fish and make the water cloudy.

 

[nabokovfan87]

On 9/24/2023 at 11:33 PM, Seanwoodey said:

My PH is around 8 but I haven’t tested KH or GH. How do I do this? And if it’s the wrong level how do I change it?

Ultimately, one thing at a time.

I highly recommend, for accuracy and long term sake of ease, grabbing the API kh+gh liquid test kit.

Once you have that, test the tank vs. Your tap so we can get an idea of where everything stands.

On 9/24/2023 at 12:21 PM, Seanwoodey said:

I’ve added a sponge filter, Java moss, I feed quality foods and have aquarium plants. There’s also mystery snails and danio in the tank as well as 2 glass shrimp. 4 weeks in, I’m starting to see dead shrimp again, also I very rarely see any shrimp.

Not seeing shrimp, the stocking, all of this would indicate to me that there's just a bit of exposure acclimation going on.  Danio can be extremely active fish. Because of that they might just be scaring the shrimp a bit, even to the point where they make it difficult for the shrimp to eat.

If you're simply interested in keeping shrimp with fish, then I would suggest starting with amano shrimp and going from there.  Fish will bother the amano shrimp much less and their personalities are slightly more outgoing compared to neocaridina.  Second to that, for either case, I would suggest adding a piece of wood to the tank to help the shrimp have a bit of cover.  Dragon stone is a secondary great option as well. It has little holes all over and that will allow molting and baby shrimp the ability to hide from stress.

Once we have test results and check everything we can get you on the path towards success.

In terms of how you're adding shrimp, how have you been acclimating them? Is there a possibility of having a shrimp only tank?

On 9/24/2023 at 11:33 PM, Seanwoodey said:

on a positive note I briefly saw a berried red shrimp in the tank, not for long however as it disappeared off with the rest of the shrimp (I hope)

Awesome! The baby shrimp will grow up in your water (and care) and have a much easier time.  Keep an eye out at night for baby shrimp. 🙂

[Seanwoodey]

Right great, thanks again. I’m currently using test strips but KH and GH isn’t part of it so I’ll invest in the test kit and see what that shows.

thankfully I have some bog wood in the tank with Java fern growing on it on one side and the other side has Java moss between it and the back of the tank. I suspect that this is where the shrimp are going as the danio are mad!

I would love a shrimp only tank but my wife wouldn’t so I’m stuck with what I have, I do enjoy having both fish and shrimp together but I guess it’s getting the right combo. Oh and I drip acclimate the shrimp when adding them.

 Its interesting you mention to look out at night for baby shrimp as I seem to see shrimp more first thing in morning, then they disappear as it gets light 

[nabokovfan87]

On 9/25/2023 at 8:29 AM, Seanwoodey said:

Its interesting you mention to look out at night for baby shrimp as I seem to see shrimp more first thing in morning, then they disappear as it gets light 

Yep! If you have red shrimp, under a red or pink light it's a bit easier to spot them. For blue or green it's a bit easier under blue light.  Some tanks only have the blue night light.  There are a lot of species of fish and shrimp that are most active once the lights dim.  It's mostly to hide from predators.  Even doing something like feeding at night can be recommended for shrimp.

If you've never heard of them, check out a channel called Mark's shrimp tanks on YouTube.

You can definitely keep fish and shrimp together. I have some cull shrimp in my 75G tank that are doing well. I haven't seen any baby shrimp, but after a few weeks I have finally learned where all the adults hang out. It's all about providing the cover and making sure the shrimp have the ability to hide. Check out dragonstone and see if you can find a nice piece or two that fits the tank. Wood (or more wood) is also highly recommended because it gives the shrimp a big surface for microorganisms.

One final thing to note is just to have a larger size sponge filter. The one you have might work for not, but it's a bit small for that tank (and stocking).  I can't tell from the photo what the air setup is like, but if you can take a video of the bubbles it may help. You should see shrimp on the sponge filter pretty regularly as well.

Edited September 25, 2023 by nabokovfan87

[Seanwoodey]

So i was going to say that i never see shrimp around the filter but as you can see by the below theyre making me out to be a liar.

anyway i dont have the filter turned all the way up as it felt a bit wild, below is what its like.

 

**** it looks like 8m struggling uploading a video from my ipad so ive taken several screenshots, nit ideal but may give you an idea?

[Seanwoodey]

Trying to get a picture that shows the constant stream of bubbles

Edited September 25, 2023 by Seanwoodey

[nabokovfan87]

I can take a video of my tank if it helps.  Here's another shrimpkeeper online that shows you a bit what it might look like.   I tried to cue the video up to the part where you see the air flowrate.
 

The type of filter you have, it does put out a bit larger bubbles than an airstone and maybe that's why it seemed a "bit much".  It's really hard to tell from the screenshots, but you should see a general stream of bubbles and you should see debris going into the sponge part.  You can check the filter, free up flow, and make sure it's not clogged up.  In my shrimp tank I run 2 filters with one on each corner.  I offset them in slightly just so it doesn't splash into the airline cutouts in the corner.

Here's another in case it helps.  (notice big sponge!)

 

[Seanwoodey]

That helps, if i turn mine up it looks like that so ill turn it up.

really appreciate you taking the time to help with this. 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 9/24/2023 at 3:21 PM, Seanwoodey said:

So I really need help with my neocardina shrimp. I’ve been trying to keep them for about 9 months and it always ends in disaster. In my latest attempt I bought 12 mixed cherry shrimp. I’ve added a sponge filter, Java moss, I feed quality foods and have aquarium plants. There’s also mystery snails and danio in the tank as well as 2 glass shrimp. 4 weeks in, I’m starting to see dead shrimp again, also I very rarely see any shrimp. After testing water all is fine but my ph is quite high! I’m about to give up

This happened to me when I first started keeping neocaridina. I switched to drip water changes (full speed through an airline hose), and the issue stopped.

[Seanwoodey]

So it could be that im ‘shocking’ shrimp when doing water changes? As i dont reallly consider this when i pour in new water 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 9/26/2023 at 5:38 AM, Seanwoodey said:

So it could be that im ‘shocking’ shrimp when doing water changes? As i dont reallly consider this when i pour in new water 

Yep.  In my situation, I didn't think it was a big deal to do a bucket water change because I was only changing 10%. I also was careful about matching the temperature. But I still had losses, until I went to drip.

[Seanwoodey]

So if you dont mind, how do you do a drip water change? I dont really have a way to put the bucket higher than the tank

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 9/26/2023 at 8:21 AM, Seanwoodey said:

So if you dont mind, how do you do a drip water change? I dont really have a way to put the bucket higher than the tank

I place my bucket on a ladder.

[nabokovfan87]

I took some quick photos of my sponges just to give you an idea. Shrimp can definitely handle a good amount of air!  Ultimately it's a balance between noise for you, circulation+oxygenation for them, but it looks like things are headed in the right direction.

(The same tank, I have 3 air drops, 2 sponge filters and 1 air stone)

[Seanwoodey]

So it appears since I’ve started these conversations things are looking up. There haven’t been anymore deaths yet, and today there’s about 4 or 5 shrimp that are very visible as they appear to be constantly searching for something, and also a huge black shrimp that I haven’t seen for a while hiding under a leaf!

feels quite positive but I don’t want to jinx it

[nabokovfan87]

Good to hear @Seanwoodey .  Keep an eye on them and hopefully you'll continue to see them thrive!

[ColBud]

On 9/26/2023 at 7:21 AM, Seanwoodey said:

So if you dont mind, how do you do a drip water change? I dont really have a way to put the bucket higher than the tank

I’m starting a new shrimp system also. How I drip the new water in is with a cleaned out plastic gallon milk jug with a small hole poked into the bottom edge. I then just fill that in my water change bucket and let it sit o. The rim of the tank. Let gravity do the job and I don’t have to watch it. 
Mark’s shrimp suggested feeding food that is basically powder so it falls all over the tank.

I haven’t had any losses in this newest set up. Good luck 👍