Sick Goldfish. Please help

[Lennie]

Hey guys,

I saw someone asking for help in our local forum. I have no idea what's wrong so I wanted to ask you guys about your opinion and see if we can help.

They said theyve only used paraguard. 

Other than that, the symptoms they mentioned are; paler coloring, heavy breathing on the surface, barely eating food, always on the surface. They said they have been dealing with fin rot too.

@Odd Duck @Colu Could you guys please help?

Old pics(and finrot development):

 

 

Now, lots of blacking up and the abovementioned symptoms:

Another one in the same tank:

 

I know parameters are the first thing we check. But the test kits and strips are extremely expensive here. I can luckily spare a budget for them, but I cant argue why someone cant invest on one, because they really require you to spare a big budget here. So yea, no clue the what the parameters are.

They said they are doing %50 wc with water conditioner added every 2-3 days

 

They have the tank for more than a year. So its not new. They have been keeping up with the same schedule.

-The tank is 27-28C. Our climate is really hot so no surprise there during summer time.

-All fish they have swim without moving their fins much they say. They all seem unhappy overall, they added.

Edited August 29, 2023 by Lennie

[Colu]

Clamp fins and hanging near the surface and rapid breathing can be caused by a number of things poor water quality parasitic infections what I would do is add aquarium salt 1 table spoon for 1 gallons for 2weeks and treat with praziquantel go from there @Lennie

[Lennie]

On 8/30/2023 at 12:00 AM, Colu said:

Clamp fins and hanging near the surface and rapid breathing can be caused by a number of things poor water quality parasitic infections what I would do is add aquarium salt 1 table spoon for 1 gallons for 2weeks and treat with praziquantel go from there @Lennie

What is all this blackening up? Any idea Colu? 

[Colu]

Goldfish can change colour as they grow it could be natural colour I have had goldfish have dramatic colour changes over the years  or ammonia poisoning can causes blackening of the scales the high dose of aquarium salt will help with possible ammonia poisoning 

[Odd Duck]

The black looks like normal color development to me but adding airstones, especially inside sponge filters, would likely be the best thing they could do for the fish.  Any chance they could set up a fan to blow across the water surface?  This would give some evaporative cooling since goldfish really don’t prefer to be so warm.  I suppose a chiller is out of the question?  Those are pretty big budget items, I know.  Any chance the tank could be moved closer to the floor where it’s going to be cooler?  Add a sump that’s buried in the earth?  Yes, I’m kidding about the deep sump, kind of.  😆  Here in Texas they run ponds deeper to take advantage of the cooler temps in the summer in deeper ponds and warmer temps in the winter with that extra depth.  We’ve had something like 47 or 48 days this summer at 100’F (37.8’C) or higher with many over 105’F (40’C) and some at 110’F (43.3’C) or higher!  Could they consider digging a pond for the summer with a fountain?  A fountain really works well for cooling the pond but it does it by increasing evaporation.

Is their tap water going to be similar to yours?  If so, what are your tap parameters?  What size tank and how many fish?  Have they cut back some on feeding with the excess heat?  They usually don’t want to eat as much when it’s too hot or when it’s too cold.

Try to get them to set up more aeration.  Plus, the low dose salt.

[Lennie]

On 8/30/2023 at 10:47 AM, Odd Duck said:

The black looks like normal color development to me but adding airstones, especially inside sponge filters, would likely be the best thing they could do for the fish.  Any chance they could set up a fan to blow across the water surface?  This would give some evaporative cooling since goldfish really don’t prefer to be so warm.  I suppose a chiller is out of the question?  Those are pretty big budget items, I know.  Any chance the tank could be moved closer to the floor where it’s going to be cooler?  Add a sump that’s buried in the earth?  Yes, I’m kidding about the deep sump, kind of.  😆  Here in Texas they run ponds deeper to take advantage of the cooler temps in the summer in deeper ponds and warmer temps in the winter with that extra depth.  We’ve had something like 47 or 48 days this summer at 100’F (37.8’C) or higher with many over 105’F (40’C) and some at 110’F (43.3’C) or higher!  Could they consider digging a pond for the summer with a fountain?  A fountain really works well for cooling the pond but it does it by increasing evaporation.

Is their tap water going to be similar to yours?  If so, what are your tap parameters?  What size tank and how many fish?  Have they cut back some on feeding with the excess heat?  They usually don’t want to eat as much when it’s too hot or when it’s too cold.

Try to get them to set up more aeration.  Plus, the low dose salt.

Low dose salt or high dose? Im confused. Colu's advice of 1 tablespoon to 1 gallon is pretty high concentration no? So no need for prazi you think?

 

I feel like they are dealing with an ammonia problem but I cant prove as there is no test. They don't live in my city so I dont exactly know about their parameters.

But, Ive checked their city testing results in 5 different spots. Here what the related parts of the chart looks like. Its in Turkish but I guess they are obvious. "Iletkenlik" refers to tds here I suppose? Otherwise the exact translation would be "conductivity":

 

People usually live in apartments here so I don't think pond is really a possibility 😄

 

Their tank is 100 Liters for 4 goldfish. Me and another experienced fish keeper already mentioned that the tank conditions shall be improved 👍🏼 I believe this also has a negative impact on them considering the size of the tank. They said they already have an extra airstone running. I believe this is an older pic of their tank considering I see only 2 fish here.. This is what the main tank looks like it seems:

 

However they keep theirs in a 40 Liter QT tank rn with an established filter, they said. 50% Water change once every 2-3 days

Edited August 30, 2023 by Lennie

[Odd Duck]

Goldfish can handle high dose salt easily but I’m not sure they need it that high right now.  What they need is a lot more space and filtration.  I’m a little concerned that high dose salt may shift the beneficial.bacteria at a time when they need all the biofiltration they can get.

So they have a 26 gallon tank and a 10 gallon quarantine tank, correct?  I’m hoping the fish with the fin rot is in the 10 G QT?  The rest still in the main tank?  That really is a lot of biomass for those sizes and they’re going to need more filtration.  Plants are hard with goldfish especially running salt.  I would do low dose salt in the main tank, no more than about 1 tablespoon for 5 gallons (about 9 grams per 10 liters).  Higher in the QT with the fin rot guy - do full high dose at 1 tablespoon per gallon (4 grams per 1 liter).

I would double the filtration I see in the main tank picture - at least 2 big sponge filters driven with airstones and always have that much biofiltration for that kind of bioload.  Make sure they know to only clean one filter per week so they trade off between them.  They need to clean gently since you don’t want to lose alll the BB’s, but be very regimented on the schedule.  When any fish is gasping, add another airstone and I wouldn’t mind seeing a whole bubble wall going up the back of a tank that’s far too hot for goldfish and overloaded on the bioload.  Besides, bubble walls are pretty.

is there any chance they can get some antibiotics like the Baktopur?  There’s no point in doing Praziquantal with fin rot, it isn’t going to help fin rot at all.  In the mean time, they need to up their water changes since I suspect they are having ammonia issues.  The pH looks pretty high with surges even higher, which makes any ammonia surges even more toxic.  Once the damage is done it can take weeks to months to heal and I suspect that’s the stage they’re at.  What is the temp of their tap water  directly out of the tap?

So for a list of things to do in order of importance:

1. Start with frequent, large water changes even more than they are currently doing,  especially for the QT tank.

2. Use lots of Prime or other dechlorinator.

3. Add extra air driven sponge filters.

4. Get some kind of antibiotic going and stop the Prazi because it’s a waste of money in this situation.  They only need to dose the guy with fin rot, not the ones with the pigment change.

5. Add high dose salt to,the QT tank and low to moderate in the main tank.

6. Add a bubble wall if possible.

7. Set up a fan to blow over the surface of the water.

8. Start dosing some bottled bacteria if there’s one available.

9. Feed very light until everybody is feeling better.

Hope these suggestions can get them back on the right track. 

[Lennie]

On 8/30/2023 at 6:10 PM, Odd Duck said:

Goldfish can handle high dose salt easily but I’m not sure they need it that high right now.  What they need is a lot more space and filtration.  I’m a little concerned that high dose salt may shift the beneficial.bacteria at a time when they need all the biofiltration they can get.

So they have a 26 gallon tank and a 10 gallon quarantine tank, correct?  I’m hoping the fish with the fin rot is in the 10 G QT?  The rest still in the main tank?  That really is a lot of biomass for those sizes and they’re going to need more filtration.  Plants are hard with goldfish especially running salt.  I would do low dose salt in the main tank, no more than about 1 tablespoon for 5 gallons (about 9 grams per 10 liters).  Higher in the QT with the fin rot guy - do full high dose at 1 tablespoon per gallon (4 grams per 1 liter).

I would double the filtration I see in the main tank picture - at least 2 big sponge filters driven with airstones and always have that much biofiltration for that kind of bioload.  Make sure they know to only clean one filter per week so they trade off between them.  They need to clean gently since you don’t want to lose alll the BB’s, but be very regimented on the schedule.  When any fish is gasping, add another airstone and I wouldn’t mind seeing a whole bubble wall going up the back of a tank that’s far too hot for goldfish and overloaded on the bioload.  Besides, bubble walls are pretty.

is there any chance they can get some antibiotics like the Baktopur?  There’s no point in doing Praziquantal with fin rot, it isn’t going to help fin rot at all.  In the mean time, they need to up their water changes since I suspect they are having ammonia issues.  The pH looks pretty high with surges even higher, which makes any ammonia surges even more toxic.  Once the damage is done it can take weeks to months to heal and I suspect that’s the stage they’re at.  What is the temp of their tap water  directly out of the tap?

So for a list of things to do in order of importance:

1. Start with frequent, large water changes even more than they are currently doing,  especially for the QT tank.

2. Use lots of Prime or other dechlorinator.

3. Add extra air driven sponge filters.

4. Get some kind of antibiotic going and stop the Prazi because it’s a waste of money in this situation.  They only need to dose the guy with fin rot, not the ones with the pigment change.

5. Add high dose salt to,the QT tank and low to moderate in the main tank.

6. Add a bubble wall if possible.

7. Set up a fan to blow over the surface of the water.

8. Start dosing some bottled bacteria if there’s one available.

9. Feed very light until everybody is feeling better.

Hope these suggestions can get them back on the right track. 

Thank you very much Duck

 

I sent the message to him. Hopefully it helps with the problem. 

cheers♥

 

[GardenStateGoldfish]

On 8/29/2023 at 5:02 PM, Lennie said:

What is all this blackening up?

Finrot with blackening fins is classic ammonia burn. Other symptoms also match ammonia same with the cloudy water, I would keep up with what has already been suggested here and reduce feeding as suggested while you let your cycle catch up, if you have any plants to add that would be great. 

[Lennie]

On 8/31/2023 at 2:19 AM, GardenStateGoldfish said:

Finrot with blackening fins is classic ammonia burn. Other symptoms also match ammonia same with the cloudy water, I would keep up with what has already been suggested here and reduce feeding as suggested while you let your cycle catch up, if you have any plants to add that would be great. 

Thank you. That's not my tank but I will let them know. I came by this post in a local forum here but I am not really experienced with goldfish so I wanted to hear about some opinions in order to help them. The look of fish made me sad